The Issue That Could Decide The Election

[Duck_dodgers007]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-14/israel-plans-for-iran-strike-as-citizens-say-government-serious.html

 

 

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told visiting U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta on Aug. 1 that time “is running out” for a peaceful solution to Iran’s atomic program. The Tel Aviv-based Haaretz newspaper reported Aug. 10 that Netanyahu and Defense Minister Ehud Barak are considering bombing Iran’s nuclear facilities before U.S. elections on Nov. 6. Mark Regev, Netanyahu’s spokesman, said government policy is not to comment on media speculation.

 

 

They want Romney so they roll the dice? Why before or election?

[WorldTraveller]

There are three possible October surprises that I would EXPECT to see from the White House before the elections if they feel that the elections is beginning to slip away from them.

 

1) Support the Bowles Simpson Plan

 

2) Dump Ol stumblin bumblin crazy uncle joe for Hillary

 

3) Support an air strike very publicly on Iran

[BiggieScooby]

The election will come down to voter turnout in Florida, Wisconsin, Iowa, Colorado, & Ohio. As I've indicated in my post on the electoral map; what happens in Florida is the biggest factor in 2012.

[Nanker]

Clouds. Clouds and grass.

[/dev/null]

There are three possible October surprises that I would EXPECT to see from the White House before the elections if they feel that the elections is beginning to slip away from them.

 

1) Support the Bowles Simpson Plan

 

2) Dump Ol stumblin bumblin crazy uncle joe for Hillary

 

3) Support an air strike very publicly on Iran

 

1 & 3 are doubtful as it would alienate his liberal base who would still go out and vote for Obama. But they would be less likely to rally their friends to vote for Obama or show up at a polling station guaranteeing the voting rights of the dead, domestically enslaved mammals, and Winffield D Pooh

 

2 is unlikely as there are laws about changing the ballot within so many days of the election. New Jersey has already proven altering a troubled Democratic ticket is a public service, but other states may hold dissenting opinions

[DC Tom]

http://www.bloomberg...nt-serious.html

 

 

 

 

 

They want Romney so they roll the dice? Why before or election?

 

I hope they don't act too precipitously. This has only been an issue for some twelve years or so...

[Koko78]

It would make an interesting political dilemma for Obama if the Jews attacked Iran a week or two before the election. If he does not support Israel or halfasses his support, he loses the Jewish vote to Romney. If he fully supports Israel, he risks losing his liberal base and left-leaning independents. If he denounces the attack, he's supporting a known state-sponsor of terrorism and Romney will trounce him.

[DC Tom]

It would make an interesting political dilemma for Obama if the Jews attacked Iran a week or two before the election. If he does not support Israel or halfasses his support, he loses the Jewish vote to Romney. If he fully supports Israel, he risks losing his liberal base and left-leaning independents. If he denounces the attack, he's supporting a known state-sponsor of terrorism and Romney will trounce him.

 

Or he can just order an attack on Iran himself. It never hurt a sitting President to look tough on the international stage, and most of his liberal support would still back him (too many would congratulate him on his backbone, with hypocritical observations equivalent to "If Obama said we needed to do it, then there must have been a real threat.")

 

In fact, the more I think about it, the smarter it seems to attack Iran three weeks before the polls. Might even win him another Nobel.

[TakeYouToTasker]

It's not our job or place to tell Israel what they can or can't do. They're a nuclear power with the best trained defense oriented militray in the world. If they want to go to war with Iran, let them, but leave us out of it.

[DC Tom]

It's not our job or place to tell Israel what they can or can't do. They're a nuclear power with the best trained defense oriented militray in the world. If they want to go to war with Iran, let them, but leave us out of it.

 

1) Many, many people think it is our place. Most think we tell them what to do while they simultaneously tell us what to do. Most people are stupid.

 

2) "Defense oriented" is at best a stretch - I'd argue wrong. As a matter of strategic policy the country is defense oriented...the military itself is, by necessity, offensively oriented along classic German lines (ironically...like the Nazis.)

 

3) See #1. It's almost impossible that we're left out of it.

[TakeYouToTasker]

To your second point, I feel like we're not talking about the same thing. To your third, it's inevitable that we'll involve ourselves, but that doesn't make it in our best interests or our best play.

[dayman]

It's not our job or place to tell Israel what they can or can't do. They're a nuclear power with the best trained defense oriented militray in the world. If they want to go to war with Iran, let them, but leave us out of it.

 

Agreed. I'm sick of Netanyahu at this point. Do what you have to do. If you want to work with us and don't like what we have to say, then by all means go it alone.

 

Also no way he dumps Biden. Won't happen. Simpson-Bowles....maybe the day after the election but not the day before.

[DC Tom]

To your second point, I feel like we're not talking about the same thing.

 

Well why don't you tell me what you mean, then I'll tell you why you're wrong.

[Duck_dodgers007]

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/08/15/the_drums_of_august

 

The Drums of August

[meazza]

http://www.foreignpo...drums_of_august

 

The Drums of August

 

So let me get this straight. You're giddy that Israel might attack Iran so it ups the chances of Obama winning re-election?

[DC Tom]

http://www.foreignpo...drums_of_august

 

The Drums of August

 

He lost me when he said the Congress of Vienna "worked". Any conclusion drawn from that assumption can only be accurate accidentally.

[Nanker]

Take a look at the map and ask yourself this: How is Israel going to fly their jets into Iran without going either a) over Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi airspace, or b) all the way around the Arabian peninsula without in-air refueling which they don't have tanker planes for?

[meazza]

Take a look at the map and ask yourself this: How is Israel going to fly their jets into Iran without going either a) over Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi airspace, or b) all the way around the Arabian peninsula without in-air refueling which they don't have tanker planes for?

 

My secret sources tell me Israel is going to use HAARP.

[Barry in KC]

Or he can just order an attack on Iran himself. It never hurt a sitting President to look tough on the international stage, and most of his liberal support would still back him (too many would congratulate him on his backbone, with hypocritical observations equivalent to "If Obama said we needed to do it, then there must have been a real threat.")

 

In fact, the more I think about it, the smarter it seems to attack Iran three weeks before the polls. Might even win him another Nobel.

If there is an attack close to the election, you'll see gas prices skyrocket, which will hurt Obama even more that it's going to.(By the way, gas prices will be a huge factor in the election and nobody is talking about it.....yet)

[DC Tom]

Take a look at the map and ask yourself this: How is Israel going to fly their jets into Iran without going either a) over Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi airspace, or b) all the way around the Arabian peninsula without in-air refueling which they don't have tanker planes for?

 

They actually do have tankers, though I don't know if they have enough.

 

And the Saudis have already said multiple times that they'd open their airspace to an Israeli strike on Iran. Personally, I think that's suicidal (imagine the popular uprising if Israel overflew Saudi Arabia with permission...the House of Saud would probably go the way of the Tsar). But one thing that's significantly under-reported in the US media is the absolute terror the Arabs have concerning a nuclear-armed Iran - the House of Saud probably wouldn't survive that, either.

[Nanker]

My secret sources tell me Israel is going to use HAARP.

Oh, sweet Jesus. A Jew's Haarp? I couldn't resist.

[Jauronimo]

Take a look at the map and ask yourself this: How is Israel going to fly their jets into Iran without going either a) over Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi airspace, or b) all the way around the Arabian peninsula without in-air refueling which they don't have tanker planes for?

The same way they took out a reactor in Iraq days before it came online. Low, fast and strategically.

[IDBillzFan]

The same way they took out a reactor in Iraq days before it came online. Low, fast and strategically.

 

Not to mention, the confirmed leaks from the WH advisors that we have the joint ability with Israel to transmit viruses to Iran software that controls their nuclear weaponry suggests we must have many other ways to remotely access their systems to shut down defense wherever we want to give Israel a direct bee line into Iran to do the most damage.

 

Granted, now that Iran knows these secrets, they have probably taken some precautionary steps, but think of all the cool things the administation HASN'T leaked yet that Iran, to our knowledge, doesn't know about.

[DC Tom]

The same way they took out a reactor in Iraq days before it came online. Low, fast and strategically.

 

And with Jordan's approval for an overfly. King Hussein wasn't stupid.

 

Not to mention, the confirmed leaks from the WH advisors that we have the joint ability with Israel to transmit viruses to Iran software that controls their nuclear weaponry suggests we must have many other ways to remotely access their systems to shut down defense wherever we want to give Israel a direct bee line into Iran to do the most damage.

 

The Israelis themselves have the ability. They took down the Syrian defenses in 2007(?) with what was essentially a hack: supposedly they broke into the network, and fed the radar operators' screens false data, so that they saw perfectly normal, everyday air traffic while the IAF was bombing the **** out of them.

 

Supposedly. Still, no one wants to talk about it (the Israelis and US, for obvious reasons. The Syrians, because they were embarrassed, and the Russians because they don't want the world to know their defense systems seem to have a major security hole.)

[Jauronimo]

I'm not sure why so many Americans view Israel as some puppet state of the US. The last 50+ years have provided ample evidence of the Israelis doing whatever the hell they want, wherever they want, to whomever they please. Whether conducting assassinations across the globe as payback for Munich, storming an air field in Uganda to free hostages, blowing up a French made nuclear reactor in Iraq, building settlements across disputed territories, or providing their neighbors periodic gut punches to keep them in line, it should be clear that Israel will do whatever they see fit without so much as lip service to the US and international community.

[CosmicBills]

It's not our job or place to tell Israel what they can or can't do. They're a nuclear power with the best trained defense oriented militray in the world. If they want to go to war with Iran, let them, but leave us out of it.

Good luck with that.

[TakeYouToTasker]

Well why don't you tell me what you mean, then I'll tell you why you're wrong.

That will prove difficult, because I'm not. Everything from their non-expansionist policy to their handling of the purpetual palestinian conflict and right on through their prioritizing of short range weapons technology speaks to this.

[DC Tom]

That will prove difficult, because I'm not. Everything from their non-expansionist policy to their handling of the purpetual palestinian conflict and right on through their prioritizing of short range weapons technology speaks to this.

 

Yep, we're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about the strategic position of the country, where as I'm talking about the military.

 

You're wrong in that you think you're talking about the military. You're not. The IDF's doctrine is, by necessity, offensive...Israel can't afford to fight defensive campaigns on other people's terms. It's their strategic policy that's, in effect, defensive.

 

And those ain't just trivial semantic points, either.

[truth on hold]

Gee with all this talk about wars being determined by domestic and foreign politics, no wonder army suicide rates hit a high last month, with Panetta saying it's "an epidemic" and "something's wrong." No kidding DUMBASS, whats wrong is these people belong at home, not overseas at the ass end of political decisions when only their nuts are on the line.

 

http://gregmitchellwriter.blogspot.sg/2012/08/army-suicide-rate-hits-all-time-high.html

[TakeYouToTasker]

Yep, we're not talking about the same thing. You're talking about the strategic position of the country, where as I'm talking about the military.

 

You're wrong in that you think you're talking about the military. You're not. The IDF's doctrine is, by necessity, offensive...Israel can't afford to fight defensive campaigns on other people's terms. It's their strategic policy that's, in effect, defensive.

 

And those ain't just trivial semantic points, either.

These strategies are debated, designed, and instituted by the military; they are not somehow seperate from it. They're encompased by it. Edited August 17, 2012 by TakeYouToTasker

[DC Tom]

These strategies are debated, designed, and instituted by the military; they are not somehow seperate from it. They're encompased by it.

 

No, they're not. They're implemented by the military. In the IDF, the implementation is usually offensive, even if the strategy is defensive (there are exceptions, such as the Bar Lev line). It's the political decision of "We're going maintain and defend the border between Syria and the occupied Golan Heights" that's defensive...the Israeli military's implementation of the strategy is offensive, almost in entirety (because it has to be - Israel needs to end wars quickly, which you simply cannot do by adopting a defensive military posture.)

 

Or, to put it even more simply: when Israel is defending itself, their military is still attacking. The IDF has never fought from a defensive posture.

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

Take a look at the map and ask yourself this: How is Israel going to fly their jets into Iran without going either a) over Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi airspace, or b) all the way around the Arabian peninsula without in-air refueling which they don't have tanker planes for?

 

Don't worry worst case scenario I'm sure the Israelis can rent some omega tankers if no other country was willing to allocate in flight refueling tankers for them

[/dev/null]

Take a look at the map and ask yourself this: How is Israel going to fly their jets into Iran without going either a) over Turkish, Syrian or Iraqi airspace, or b) all the way around the Arabian peninsula without in-air refueling which they don't have tanker planes for?

 

All governments are two faced, regardless of race and ethnicity. Arab Muslims love to talk smack about Israeli Jews.

 

But in private, if word got to Saudi Arabia or Turkey's government that this was going down, that would be they day they run an air defense drill. And all those unidentified contacts? Well those are probably just part of the exercise