Bill from NYC Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 To set the record straight that line in 06 was-Peters- Gandy- Fowler- Villarrial- Penningtion. It wasn't until 07 that the Bills brought in Walker and Dockery who both played with the bills thru 07-08. they both played 2 full seasons and didn't do to badly until the starting O line coach Jim McNally retired. I'll grant you that neither one was worth the money paid them. But either of them were infinitely better then Cornell Green. OK, thanks. This makes the draft of 06 10x worse. Peters was excellent. Gandy was a backup OT, not a guard. Fowler was awful. He was weak against the pass and got zero push on running plays. Villarial was good for the first half of the first season upon his arrival. After this his body broke down and he was absolutely terrible. Pennington was unspeakably bad, and btw he was a 7th round rookie. And who was this mess protecting? An inexperienced, not so smart qb who needed all the help he could get. Levy/Jauron drafted the mess cited above in the first 3 rounds, and followed this up with none other than Ko Simpson. And as for Schobel (who you highlighted), the Jauron defense had him lined up SO wide that he was almost out of bounds. Sometimes they dropped him back into coverage as well. AS takes a bit of heat here at times but he was a legit pass rusher, one who was wasted with these buffoons. Levy and Jauron focused primarily on the secondary and special teams. It sounds crazy, but this is where they devoted their resources. They were not capable of ever building a winning team, and this is not even getting into the dumb, on field coaching decisions. Gailey/Nix might not be a heralded hall of fame combo, but they are a breath of fresh air after Levy/Jauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 To be fair to Gailey, the year before he took over in Dallas their record was 6-10. The year after he left they were 5-11. So in Dallas, Gailey was 18-14 and his predecessor and successor were 11-21. Gailey was coaching a team of aging, stubborn superstars as well. Not the easiest situation to walk into, but he got them to the playoffs. And don't forget Jerry Jones' comments after the Bills hired Gailey that firing him was one of the worst decisions he has made as the Cowboys' owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara Bill Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Have any of you actually been to a game with Jauron as coach. He is most passive, gutless coach the Bills have ever had. He showed no passion, no leadership, no willingness to defend his players. He kissed the a?? of every official. Marv would have roasted them. Jauron never gambled unless the full 75,000 people knew that it was coming. His players left the field with heads down and passive and came out uninspired. The best you can say about Jauron is he was a gentle man and consistent. At first they said he was a players coach...except for those players who wanted to win. then he wimped out. To compare Gailly to Jauron and suggest they are even in the same league is nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Have any of you actually been to a game with Jauron as coach. He is most passive, gutless coach the Bills have ever had. He showed no passion, no leadership, no willingness to defend his players. He kissed the a?? of every official. Marv would have roasted them. Jauron never gambled unless the full 75,000 people knew that it was coming. His players left the field with heads down and passive and came out uninspired. The best you can say about Jauron is he was a gentle man and consistent. At first they said he was a players coach...except for those players who wanted to win. then he wimped out. To compare Gailly to Jauron and suggest they are even in the same league is nuts. Niagara Bill -- I'm as happy as anyone Jauron is gone, but I will disagree with you to a certain extent. His Bills teams were generally very motivated and played hard. I think he doesn't know how to evaluate talent and is a horrible gameday coach, but I never watched those teams play and thought they weren't trying. The talent and schemes were just not there. That said -- I love the fire Gailey shows on the sideline, and can't wait to see what we can do with a roster full of youth and talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Obviously Jauron was not strong with identifying talent, whether it was through the draft or FA. However, I find it ironic that even though our head coach is considered an offensive expert, our top five offensive players (fitzy, FJ, stevie, wood, levitre) were from the Jauron regime. Again, I'm not supporting Jauron here, I just found that interesting. Obviously, we've attempted to aggressively address our defense during the Gailey tenure, but interesting nevertheless... Fitz, Jackson and Stevie were never given a chance during the Jauron regime. Stevie posted back-to-back 1000 yard season only after Gailey ran the offense. Fitz got his chance only with Gailey (who also goofed by giving Edwards the Starting job). The OL was so bad, that Jauron and Co had to make automatic choices to plug holes in the line. In fact, Jauron erred pretty badly by moving Wood from Center (in College) to Guard (in the NFL). When Wood finally played Center, he showed that he can be a dominating Center that can protect the pocket for the QB. Jauron should get minimal to no credit for any of these players development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) OK, thanks. This makes the draft of 06 10x worse. Peters was excellent. Gandy was a backup OT, not a guard. Fowler was awful. He was weak against the pass and got zero push on running plays. Villarial was good for the first half of the first season upon his arrival. After this his body broke down and he was absolutely terrible. Pennington was unspeakably bad, and btw he was a 7th round rookie. And who was this mess protecting? An inexperienced, not so smart qb who needed all the help he could get. Levy/Jauron drafted the mess cited above in the first 3 rounds, and followed this up with none other than Ko Simpson. And as for Schobel (who you highlighted), the Jauron defense had him lined up SO wide that he was almost out of bounds. Sometimes they dropped him back into coverage as well. AS takes a bit of heat here at times but he was a legit pass rusher, one who was wasted with these buffoons. Levy and Jauron focused primarily on the secondary and special teams. It sounds crazy, but this is where they devoted their resources. They were not capable of ever building a winning team, and this is not even getting into the dumb, on field coaching decisions. Gailey/Nix might not be a heralded hall of fame combo, but they are a breath of fresh air after Levy/Jauron. And yet went 7-9 with basically the same players...only with Losman & Edwards at QB. Like the OP points out, most of the best players on the team last year were all from the Jauron era. Like I said, I like Gailey / Nix. But they haven't proven anything yet. P.S. I highlighted Aaron Schobel because he was the only star the team lost and didn't replace. Expecting Maybin and Merriman to take up the slack was grasping at straws, and a huge mistake. Edited May 22, 2012 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) And yet went 7-9 with basically the same players...only with Losman & Edwards at QB. Like the OP points out, most of the best players on the team last year were all from the Jauron era. Like I said, I like Gailey / Nix. But they haven't proven anything yet. P.S. I highlighted Aaron Schobel because he was the only star the team lost and didn't replace. Expecting Maybin and Merriman to take up the slack was grasping at straws, and a huge mistake. Of those 5 that the original poster mentioned only Woods and Levitre played really under jauron. You are kind of pointing out the fact that Jauron was inept at identifying talent. SJ showed talent and promise early but was not a starter till Chan got here same can be said for Freddie and Fitz(while with cincy). Sorry but the biggest knock on Jauron is the guy would not stick his neck out and was way to passive. You proved the point even more so. By your rationale, which i do not agree with, if Jauron woul dhave realized some of the talent he had maybe the Bills could have finished 8-8 or 9-7 or heck even 10-6 and made the playoffs. But no Jauron had zero clue what an offense was and even less ability to realize offensive talent. It was sitting there right under his nose on his squad. Sorry but i will take what the Bills have now over any jauron team. Edited May 22, 2012 by atlbillsfan1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Obviously Jauron was not strong with identifying talent, whether it was through the draft or FA. However, I find it ironic that even though our head coach is considered an offensive expert, our top five offensive players (fitzy, FJ, stevie, wood, levitre) were from the Jauron regime. Again, I'm not supporting Jauron here, I just found that interesting. Obviously, we've attempted to aggressively address our defense during the Gailey tenure, but interesting nevertheless... Interesting idea, but it actually makes the point that Gailey has done a good job offensively. He took the same players that Jauron had, and actually had some offensive success with them. Also, it's good to differentiate between coaches and GM's. Jauron/Gailey have some input, but the GM's are mainly responsible for player acquisitions. Gailey/Nix just finished their second Modrakless draft, and I think most have been very pleased with the results to this point. I despise Jauron as a coach, but it is the FO's responsibility to identify talent for the roster, not Jauron or Gailey. They are responsible for using the talent they have effectively as possible. While the end result of wins losses was not good so far with Gailey, certainly he seemed to have a better looking team than the one Jauron fielded with similar players. Edited May 22, 2012 by Turbosrrgood Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I find it interesting that as bad a HC as Jauron purportedly was, he'd get us near .500 with very little talent to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 I find it interesting that as bad a HC as Jauron purportedly was, he'd get us near .500 with very little talent to work with. See my post above (#44). I think the Bills really did play hard for Dick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) Of those 5 that the original poster mentioned only Woods and Levitre played really under jauron. You are kind of pointing out the fact that Jauron was inept at identifying talent. SJ showed talent and promise early but was not a starter till Chan got here same can be said for Freddie and Fitz(while with cincy). Sorry but the biggest knock on Jauron is the guy would not stick his neck out and was way to passive. You proved the point even more so. By your rationale, which i do not agree with, if Jauron woul dhave realized some of the talent he had maybe the Bills could have finished 8-8 or 9-7 or heck even 10-6 and made the playoffs. But no Jauron had zero clue what an offense was and even less ability to realize offensive talent. It was sitting there right under his nose on his squad. Sorry but i will take what the Bills have now over any jauron team. Hey man, you won't get an argument from me that Jauron was a complete tool, he screwed up in so many ways. Not only was he bad at talent evaluation, and picking the wrong players he also had no balls!! The man must have been scared to death to hire a real experienced NFL offensive assistant for fear that they would steal his job. He was the complete opposite of Marv Levy as head coach, Marv was not afraid to hire anyone who he thought could do a good job for him. The last DC he tried to hire was Tom Coughlin, and instead Coughlin took the HCing job with the Jags. In cases like the 28 year veteran O line coach Jim McNally who retired and Jauron promotes an assistant. Don't forget it was McNally who coached Jason Peters from a walk on tight end into an all pro LT. Veteran OC Steve Fairchild leaves and he promotes the QB coach ( this might have been an ok move if Jauron had some real insight on how an NFL offense should work, and could have guided the OC's more) Jauron did this not once, but twice! Jauron may as well have been calling the offensive plays because all it was shotgun pass plays with a few runs mixed in. Like I said in an earlier post it was half way thru the season before Schonert called for a "play action" pass play. The only area of the team that Jauron would hire an experienced coach for was the defense. Jauron might have been on to something by looking over his shoulder so often because It was and experienced NFL coach who replaced him in Perry Fewell. You guys think I forget about the 2008 season ? The one that Tom Brady gets a season ending injury in the very first game, and the only QB on their roster hadn't played a football game since high school. That's right, Matt Cassell didn't play at all while at USC. Wanna see Cassell stats at USC? In 4 years 20 attempts for 192 yards, and most of those came in one game. With that inexperienced QB behind center the Patriots still beat the Bills both times 10-20 and in that windstorm in Buffalo that the Bills should have won because they had the better running game with Lynch and Jackson. This was the year that Jauron promoted the assistant line coach from within, and this was the year that Trent Edwards suffered that horrendous hit by an unblocked blitzing safety. Edwards completed that pass, but that hit probably eventually ruined his career.....that hit and the next 4 concussions over 3 years. This was also the year the Bills started out 4-0, and then went to 5-1 after beating the Chargers in Buffalo. Following that game they lost 3 straight in the division to Miami, NY and NE. then lost to Cleveland with Brady Quinn at QB That year the Bills had a real chance at winning the division if they had replaced the departed coaches with people who knew what they were doing. Jauron was such an offensive moron that he promoted other morons to run his offense, that was his biggest downfall. That and the fact that he and his staff of buffoons ruined two young QB's P.S. What most of you fail to realize is that Jauron's short comings were in the fact that he failed to hired experienced NFL offensive coaches. Chan Gailey did the exact same thing when he was hired, only he hired his old friends from his college days at GT. That IS the biggest reason for 4-12 & 6-10. That and the fact that Gailey is trying to be the head coach while also trying to run the entire offense. Edited May 22, 2012 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah, ok. Right. I wasn't for the Jauron hiring, but he can only bring in people who are willing to come here. Remember how many coaches we interviewed before hiring Chan Gailey? Buffalo is not a destination for many people. Despite all that anf having a poorly built team because of bad management, he still kept the team around .500. As far as his preference for players, when he got to a place that knew what it was doing, they quickly drafted the large Phil Taylor to beef up the defensive line. Just because the popular lines are parroted, doesn't make them correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yeah, ok. Right. I wasn't for the Jauron hiring, but he can only bring in people who are willing to come here. Remember how many coaches we interviewed before hiring Chan Gailey? Buffalo is not a destination for many people. Despite all that anf having a poorly built team because of bad management, he still kept the team around .500. As far as his preference for players, when he got to a place that knew what it was doing, they quickly drafted the large Phil Taylor to beef up the defensive line. Just because the popular lines are parroted, doesn't make them correct. Totally different thing from hiring a head coach that will be micro managed by the owner and the world knows it, to hiring an assistant coach. Jauron took the safe, lazy and easy way out by promoting from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Totally different thing from hiring a head coach that will be micro managed by the owner and the world knows it, to hiring an assistant coach. Jauron took the safe, lazy and easy way out by promoting from within. I am sure that Mike Martz was chomping at the bit to come to Buffalo, NY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I am sure that Mike Martz was chomping at the bit to come to Buffalo, NY. You might not have liked the hire ....but you sure seem intent on defending him...or provoking me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) You might not have liked the hire ....but you sure seem intent on defending him...or provoking me. I only defend him because he is given more blame than he deserved. He inherited a bad team and a GM who didn't even want to be a GM. The result was that the talent didn't get any better. For all we know, if he had Bill Polian as a GM, his quiet, stoic demeanor may have been seen in four Superbowls Edited May 23, 2012 by Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I only defend him because he is given more blame than he deserved. He inherited a bad team and a GM who didn't even want to be a GM. The result was that the talent didn't get any better. For all we know, if he had Bill Polian as a GM, his quiet, stoic demeanor may have been seen in four Superbowls that is funny I highly doubt Bill Polian would have allowed any of the moves that the idiot Jauron did to himself. In the draft, in personnel moves, in hiring. Jauron also had two years as de facto GM and basic complete control over the team, schemes, and players. He took a 7-9 team and made it worse before he left. If Marv should have never been given the job as GM ( a HoF HC ) who was asked by his old friend Ralph Wilson to help him out. Then think about letting a loser like Jauron have complete control. P.S. Those 7-9 teams had enough talent on them to win, it was the bad coaching, the horribly bad schemes that held them back! Edited May 23, 2012 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 that is funny I highly doubt Bill Polian would have allowed any of the moves that the idiot Jauron did to himself. In the draft, in personnel moves, in hiring. Funny thing is that you just agreed with my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Chans only been here 2 years. And the draft has been mostly on the defensive side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) Funny thing is that you just agreed with my point. No I didn't, I was laughing at it. Edited May 23, 2012 by Fear the Beard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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