Bills O-Line Ranked #13

[dogma+]

My link

 

Thoughts?

 

They were a top 10 Offensive Line last season and I believe they will get better this season.

 

They made a mistake in not re-signing Bell. I to this day do not understand their thinking. He played at a very high level and was not asking for a unreasonable contract. Even with Glenn, there is no such thing as too much offensive or defensive line depth.

[Rocky Landing]

Well written conjecture.

[ganesh]

I just have a feeling the Ravens are taking a step back this year. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Bengals win that division.

 

I see the Steelers taking the division. They just reloaded..

[Buffalo Barbarian]

My link

 

Thoughts?

will be # 1 after this season.

 

Behind the Stillers? Ben got killed behind those guys.

[eball]

They were a top 10 Offensive Line last season and I believe they will get better this season.

 

They made a mistake in not re-signing Bell. I to this day do not understand their thinking. He played at a very high level and was not asking for a unreasonable contract. Even with Glenn, there is no such thing as too much offensive or defensive line depth.

Didn't the Bills attempt to re-sign him though? I don't think this is on Nix. Bell was taking a whirlwind tour of the NFL and couldn't get the contract he wanted from anyone until Philly encountered disaster in the form of Jason Peters' torn Achilles. Seems to me the Bills had him valued about right.

[dogma+]

Didn't the Bills attempt to re-sign him though? I don't think this is on Nix. Bell was taking a whirlwind tour of the NFL and couldn't get the contract he wanted from anyone until Philly encountered disaster in the form of Jason Peters' torn Achilles. Seems to me the Bills had him valued about right.

 

Perhaps they did, I may have missed it.

 

The Eagles are paying Bell $3.25 million this season, and with ZERO guaranteed money after this season. After that, he will make $1 million in 2013, and $6 million in 2014.

 

That is a VERY reasonable contract for a player of his potential and current value. IF the Bills could have signed him to that same deal and did not, I would be very, very disappointed in them.

[eball]

Perhaps they did, I may have missed it.

 

The Eagles are paying Bell $3.25 million this season, and with ZERO guaranteed money after this season. After that, he will make $1 million in 2013, and $6 million in 2014.

 

That is a VERY reasonable contract for a player of his potential and current value. IF the Bills could have signed him to that same deal and did not, I would be very, very disappointed in them.

They definitely made him an offer; don't know the terms. Philly is taking a gamble, though, on a player who has not shown the ability to stay healthy, and still has question marks.

[dogma+]

They definitely made him an offer; don't know the terms. Philly is taking a gamble, though, on a player who has not shown the ability to stay healthy, and still has question marks.

 

What's the gamble?

 

Philly is giving Bell $3 million this season and $1 million next season.

 

I wouldn't call that a gamble. I would call that a steal.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

What's the gamble?

 

Philly is giving Bell $3 million this season and $1 million next season.

 

I wouldn't call that a gamble. I would call that a steal.

Most of the people here did want the Bills to retain Bell at a reasonable cost. Who knows what would have happened had Peters not gotten injured.

 

On the other hand (as was pointed out by numerous others at the time of free agency), the Bills seem to be making an effort to reduce their reliance on injury-prone players, of whom Bell certainly was. They put a price on him (an offer was made) and were unwilling to go higher.

 

Agree with the decision or not, I sense that unlike in years previous, that the Bills did their homework and decided that they could get as good/better production at that position for less money.

 

I'd have liked to see Bell return too but I like Hairston and am very excited about Glenn and Sanders so I wish Bell the best. The Bills will be fine without him and Bell will get a chance to prove whether he's a durable, dependable player.

 

 

 

 

[eball]

What's the gamble?

 

Philly is giving Bell $3 million this season and $1 million next season.

 

I wouldn't call that a gamble. I would call that a steal.

Again, dog, Bell wasn't able to get that deal from ANYONE until Peters went down. He had visited with half the league I believe (ok, maybe that's an exaggeration, but the guy wasn't getting the offer he wanted).

 

That suggests to me the Bills had him valued about right. And as San Jose said, the Bills appear to be looking for tougher guys who are more dependable. Neither Glenn nor Sanders missed any time, that I recall.

[dogma+]

Most of the people here did want the Bills to retain Bell at a reasonable cost. Who knows what would have happened had Peters not gotten injured.

 

What is a reasonable cost for Bell? $4 million over 2 years, and no guaranteed money after the first year? That's what Philly gave him.

 

the Bills seem to be making an effort to reduce their reliance on injury-prone players

 

I think you hit the nail on the head.

 

Again, dog, Bell wasn't able to get that deal from ANYONE until Peters went down.

 

What makes you think that?

 

Football players, and people in general, make decisions based on more than just money. Bell did not get a lucrative deal by ANY means. He could have liked Philadelphia, the organization, a guaranteed starting position at LT...etc.

 

In fact, I just read this on ProFotballTalk...

 

"...details of the contract make it seem like he’s being viewed as a one-year replacement for his predecessor at left tackle in both Buffalo and Philadelphia.

 

It’s a five-year deal between Bell and the Eagles, but, like many other long-term deals, the chances of Bell seeing the full run of the contract are pretty slim. Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com reports that the deal will pay Bell $3.25 million in salary and bonuses in 2012 with no guaranteed money beyond this season."

 

Very good deal for Philly. They could CUT him after this season and owe him NOTHING.

[Turbosrrgood]

My link

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I think it's a pretty fair assessment. My only gripe is penciling in Rinehart as a starter. I think he stood out as a guy that really struggled last year, and Urbik is a guy who by far surpassed his expectations. He even played center before getting injured. I don't see there being much of a chance of Rinehart starting. Actually he seems like would have a hard time just making the team now that the Bills added Glenn, Sanders, and Asper (G/C) in the draft.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[Turbosrrgood]

What is a reasonable cost for Bell? $4 million over 2 years, and no guaranteed money after the first year? That's what Philly gave him.

 

 

 

Bell isn't a very good LT IMO, so no that's not reasonable. That was an emergency swing by the Eagles. As eball pointed out, no one else was willing to offer that in the time he was on the market.

 

Personally I think Bell was a waste of the Bills time/resources, as opposed to drafting/developing someone else. The Bills are far better off without him, with Hairston and Glenn in the mix, not to mention Sanders (a 1st/2nd rnd rated tackle by some). All of those guys have a high a ton of potential and great physical skills. Bell had a low ceiling, was injury prone, had poor technique (especially against speed), and wasn't physically gifted.

 

Give Nix a ton of credit, he dealt with the situation perfectly IMO. Didn't give in to Bell's salary demands, and in the end got guys in the draft that certainly seem more talented. That position went from one of great question, to a possible strength and certainly now has solid depth.

Edited May 18, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[eball]

What makes you think that?

 

Football players, and people in general, make decisions based on more than just money. Bell did not get a lucrative deal by ANY means. He could have liked Philadelphia, the organization, a guaranteed starting position at LT...etc.

 

In fact, I just read this on ProFotballTalk...

 

"...details of the contract make it seem like he’s being viewed as a one-year replacement for his predecessor at left tackle in both Buffalo and Philadelphia.

 

It’s a five-year deal between Bell and the Eagles, but, like many other long-term deals, the chances of Bell seeing the full run of the contract are pretty slim. Reuben Frank of CSNPhilly.com reports that the deal will pay Bell $3.25 million in salary and bonuses in 2012 with no guaranteed money beyond this season."

 

Very good deal for Philly. They could CUT him after this season and owe him NOTHING.

I think the disconnect here is that you value Bell's talents at a level higher than the Bills do. Personally, I found Bell to be merely adequate at LT, which might be ok if you're strong elsewhere and have a quick-thinking QB like Fitz. But the Bills clearly believed they could do better, to the point at which they made Bell an offer that (in their minds) was commensurate with an oft-injured yet adequate LT. I think it's clear they hoped he would re-sign as quality depth, but still planned to upgrade the position.

 

Bottom line -- Bell didn't find an "attractive" deal anywhere until the Eagles were forced into a desperate situation.

[dollars 2 donuts]

I see the Steelers taking the division. They just reloaded..

 

 

I think the steelers improved their OL and have a couple of good young players, but I think they are creeping up in age a bit on defense. The bengals have youth everywhere, are just getting started, a lot of high picks at least in the next year to go with this year's class and a ton of cap room.

 

...this isn't just a steelers/ravens concern, but a concern for us as well if we are fighting for a playoff spot.

Edited May 18, 2012 by dollars 2 donuts

[Turbosrrgood]

will be # 1 after this season.

 

Behind the Stillers? Ben got killed behind those guys.

 

I initially thought the same thing. But the article did make some good points there. They have Pouncey a pro-bowler, they signed arguably the best O-lineman in the draft G DeCastro (I know, Kalil, but OT's are always more coveted) along with one of the most talented OT's in the draft in Adams. Both of those guys probably start week 1. It may be a stretch to assume two rookies, especially Adams at T, can come in and be great right away, but they certainly look much improved on paper. The Bills O-line is similarly mostly improved on paper, with a rookie probably starting at LT, or 2nd year 5th Rounder as the alternative.

[Turbosrrgood]

I see the Steelers taking the division. They just reloaded..

 

I don't know about that. The Bengals are certainly starting to look good, and the Ravens have been the best team in that division. The Steelers still have some issues, that O-line is going to be young and untested. Their defense is old and lost some players. They are weak at the RB position, and iffy at the WR position behind Wallace.

 

That could make for one of the best divisions in football this year (the Browns ruin it...).

Edited May 18, 2012 by Turbosrrgood

[dogma+]

Bell isn't a very good LT IMO, so no that's not reasonable. That was an emergency swing by the Eagles. As eball pointed out, no one else was willing to offer that in the time he was on the market.

 

Personally I think Bell was a waste of the Bills time/resources, as opposed to drafting/developing someone else. The Bills are far better off without him, with Hairston and Glenn in the mix, not to mention Sanders (a 1st/2nd rnd rated tackle by some). All of those guys have a high a ton of potential and great physical skills. Bell had a low ceiling, was injury prone, had poor technique (especially against speed), and wasn't physically gifted.

 

Give Nix a ton of credit, he dealt with the situation perfectly IMO. Didn't give in to Bell's salary demands, and in the end got guys in the draft that certainly seem more talented. That position went from one of great question, to a possible strength and certainly now has solid depth.

 

I think you're wrong.

 

Bell is a GOOD tackle. He is an above average right tackle and an average left tackle. He played very well last season and actually put up better numbers than many Pro Bowl tackles. His foot work has improved greatly since he first entered training camp a few years ago, and his hips are now in line with his lower body chopping. He has improved greatly.

 

$4 million over 2 years is not the salary of a very good LT. A very good LT makes quadruple that. The problem is clearly two fold:

 

1) Fans will do whatever it takes to bolster credit for the team and GM. Admitting they may have made a mistake hurts their ego.

 

2) Fans don't tend to know what a fair value is. Saying $4 million over 2 years is unreasonable is simply ridiculous. The average starting Left Tackle in the NFL makes $4 million PER SEASON. Demetress Bell signed a contract to make $4 million over TWO seasons.

 

This is not a case of the Eagles handing Bell a large amount of money. They handed him a VERY modest contract. He is being paid like an average RT. Which is less than he is. He is an above average RT.

 

The Eagles got a deal.

 

I think the disconnect here is that you value Bell's talents at a level higher than the Bills do. Personally, I found Bell to be merely adequate at LT, which might be ok if you're strong elsewhere and have a quick-thinking QB like Fitz. But the Bills clearly believed they could do better, to the point at which they made Bell an offer that (in their minds) was commensurate with an oft-injured yet adequate LT. I think it's clear they hoped he would re-sign as quality depth, but still planned to upgrade the position.

 

If the Bills front office made Bell an offer that they believed was fair for an adequate LT, and it was less than what the Eagles offered Bell, then I am very worried.

 

The Eagles offered Bell a contract worthy of an average to below average right tackle. The average starting LT in the NFL makes double what the Eagles are paying Bell.

[JuanGuzman]

I like how they give Fitz quick release credit for the league low sack total, but I think most the credit really goes to chan for designing an offense that is a lot of 3 step drops as well TE's and RB's chip blocking. The problem is that its tough for the bills to put vertical pressure on teams if your line can protect long enough for the QB to take 5 and sometimes even 7 step drops.

 

In essence this is my problem with purely analytical and statistical measures, Both football outsiders and pro-football focus graded us as the #1 passing blocking O-line, but I think you ask any rational Bills fan and they'd agree that there are some far better pass protecting units out there.

Edited May 18, 2012 by JuanGuzman

[Bill from NYC]

I think the disconnect here is that you value Bell's talents at a level higher than the Bills do. Personally, I found Bell to be merely adequate at LT, which might be ok if you're strong elsewhere and have a quick-thinking QB like Fitz. But the Bills clearly believed they could do better, to the point at which they made Bell an offer that (in their minds) was commensurate with an oft-injured yet adequate LT. I think it's clear they hoped he would re-sign as quality depth, but still planned to upgrade the position.

 

Bottom line -- Bell didn't find an "attractive" deal anywhere until the Eagles were forced into a desperate situation.

 

Yeah, Bell received lots of accolades on this board, but the truth is that he was an adequate LT, this when healthy. And, it took him some time to not suck. Fitz and Chan helped him big time because he lacked strength. They designed an offense that was built upon quick release. Even Hairston, a 4th round LT, didn't look as bad as other horror shows we have historically lined up at this key position. But one thing Bell DID have was agility.

 

Glenn is the total opposite imo. His strength is beyond question. If Glenn was as agile as Bell he would have been a top 5 selection. I view him as a boom or bust type of player. We will know soon too imo. I am not totally convinced that he will start the season at LT. Are you?

 

Glenn can really help Spiller imo. If he can be a road grader type, this will be great because Spiller needs a bigger hole than FJ, who is great at seeing openings ala Thurman (the best ever imo in spotting openings).

 

Personally, I would have preferred Martin, who I viewed as a bigger, stronger Bell, and a good fit for our system. But I am obviously not the guy being paid the big bucks to decide these things. And again, Glenn has a much higher ceiling imo. I truly hope he develops into a monster LT. If he does, this team can go a long way.