Vikings' $975M stadium bill passed

[Joe W]

Obviously there is going to be tremendous state wide opposition to funding $200 million for a facility that's used 7 times a year. That's why this improvement report has to be released and let the process begin.

 

Wilson has to come clean on his succession plan, it's a concern that he has made little comment about what's going on with Bills Have any reporters including Wawrow tried to contact him ?

[dwight in philly]

Obviously there is going to be tremendous state wide opposition to funding $200 million for a facility that's used 7 times a year. That's why this improvement report has to be released and let the process begin.

 

Wilson has to come clean on his succession plan, it's a concern that he has made little comment about what's going on with Bills Have any reporters including Wawrow tried to contact him ?

it is a bit shameful that there is not one reporter who has pinned wilson down. if his health is failing, who is making the decisions?, is it littman?, overdorf?, brandon?somebody , possibly brandon, has to step up and let the fans know what is going on. all the flowery bulls-t about keeping the market viable, great fans etc rings hollow. i want to know what is going on regarding the succession plan.regardless, the stadium needs to be upgraded and then we go from there.

Edited May 12, 2012 by dwight in philly

[JohnC]

Butting in on Dwight and John's conversation, the stadium investment vs team assurances thing is a chicken/egg argument however I agree that the Bills have zero leverage.

 

As such, I can't see the politicians playing hardball with the Bills on investing in the stadium or demanding the team partner on the investment.

 

IMO, stadium investment will be a political gamble which will be taken with the hope that it buys some more time for the Bills in WNY.

 

I also think that the deal needs to be done ASAP as the worst case would be precipitated with the passing of Mr. Wilson early in the process.

 

I believe that the farther the team/state/county travel down this road while Mr. Wilson is alive, the better it will be for the outcome.

 

I respectfully disagree with your position that the Bills have zero leverage. In my opinion it is the reverse. The owner is 93 yrs old. It is in his interest not to get a deal done unless it is very favorable for him. The best situation for his estate to be in when he passes is not to have a long term deal in place. In that scenario outside bidders would have a more attractive product to bid on because they wouldn't have to worry about buying out a prior long term lease agreement. A clean situation that doesn't anchor the franchise to its current location makes the franchise even more appealing to all outside bidders.

 

Let's look at the situation from Mr. Wilson's perspective. He has the leverage and the regional authorities are at his mercy. When the stadium was originally built he made no contribution. When the stadium was renovated and upgraded with boxes he again made no contribution to the stadium project. Do you now expect him to volunteer to contribute to the costs for upgrading an outdated faciltiy? He has owned the team for more than a half century. He has consistently operated the franchise in a particular way. Do you expect him to change how he conducts business?

 

When it comes to football Ralph doesn't always know what he is doing. When it comes to business the owner is not only very astute, but also tough. He is driving the bus and it is going where he wants it to go. Everyone else on the bus are passengers who have no control on where it is being steered.

 

P.S. Whenever I respond to anyone with my postings all others are encouraged to participate in the discussion. There is no need to be hesitant about joining in the discussion.

Edited May 12, 2012 by JohnC

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I respectfully disagree with your position that the Bills have zero leverage. In my opinion it is the reverse. The owner is 93 yrs old. It is in his interest not to get a deal done unless it is very favorable for him. The best situation for his estate to be in when he passes is not to have a long term deal in place. In that scenario outside bidders would have a more attractive product to bid on because they wouldn't have to worry about buying out a prior long term lease agreement. A clean situation that doesn't anchor the franchise to its current location makes the franchise even more appealing to all outside bidders.

 

Let's look at the situation from Mr. Wilson's perspective. He has the leverage and the regional authorities are at his mercy. When the stadium was originally built he made no contribution. When the stadium was renovated and upgraded with boxes he again made no contribution to the stadium project. Do you now expect him to volunteer to contribute to the costs for upgrading an outdated faciltiy? He has owned the team for more than a half century. He has consistently operated the franchise in a particular way. Do you expect him to change how he conducts business?

 

When it comes to football Ralph doesn't always know what he is doing. When it comes to business the owner is not only very astute, but also tough. He is driving the bus and it is going where he wants it to go. Everyone else on the bus are passengers who have no control on where it is being steered.

 

P.S. Whenever I respond to anyone with my postings all others are encouraged to participate in the discussion. There is no need to be hesitant about joining in the discussion.

I miswrote.

 

I meant that the State/County have little leverage… as ambiguously suggested in my second line about not playing hardball.

 

Thanks, John.

Edited May 13, 2012 by San Jose Bills Fan

[BRAWNDO]

I respectfully disagree with your position that the Bills have zero leverage. In my opinion it is the reverse. The owner is 93 yrs old. It is in his interest not to get a deal done unless it is very favorable for him. The best situation for his estate to be in when he passes is not to have a long term deal in place. In that scenario outside bidders would have a more attractive product to bid on because they wouldn't have to worry about buying out a prior long term lease agreement. A clean situation that doesn't anchor the franchise to its current location makes the franchise even more appealing to all outside bidders.

 

Let's look at the situation from Mr. Wilson's perspective. He has the leverage and the regional authorities are at his mercy. When the stadium was originally built he made no contribution. When the stadium was renovated and upgraded with boxes he again made no contribution to the stadium project. Do you now expect him to volunteer to contribute to the costs for upgrading an outdated faciltiy? He has owned the team for more than a half century. He has consistently operated the franchise in a particular way. Do you expect him to change how he conducts business?

 

When it comes to football Ralph doesn't always know what he is doing. When it comes to business the owner is not only very astute, but also tough. He is driving the bus and it is going where he wants it to go. Everyone else on the bus are passengers who have no control on where it is being steered.

 

P.S. Whenever I respond to anyone with my postings all others are encouraged to participate in the discussion. There is no need to be hesitant about joining in the discussion.

 

 

I miswrote.

 

I meant that the State/County have little leverage… as ambiguously suggested in my second line about not playing hardball.

 

Thanks, John.

 

 

They don't have much leverage. Neither Poloncarz or Cuomo want to be responsible for the loss of Bills.

[benderbender]

I respectfully disagree with your position that the Bills have zero leverage. In my opinion it is the reverse. The owner is 93 yrs old. It is in his interest not to get a deal done unless it is very favorable for him. The best situation for his estate to be in when he passes is not to have a long term deal in place. In that scenario outside bidders would have a more attractive product to bid on because they wouldn't have to worry about buying out a prior long term lease agreement. A clean situation that doesn't anchor the franchise to its current location makes the franchise even more appealing to all outside bidders.

 

Let's look at the situation from Mr. Wilson's perspective. He has the leverage and the regional authorities are at his mercy. When the stadium was originally built he made no contribution. When the stadium was renovated and upgraded with boxes he again made no contribution to the stadium project. Do you now expect him to volunteer to contribute to the costs for upgrading an outdated faciltiy? He has owned the team for more than a half century. He has consistently operated the franchise in a particular way. Do you expect him to change how he conducts business?

 

When it comes to football Ralph doesn't always know what he is doing. When it comes to business the owner is not only very astute, but also tough. He is driving the bus and it is going where he wants it to go. Everyone else on the bus are passengers who have no control on where it is being steered.

 

P.S. Whenever I respond to anyone with my postings all others are encouraged to participate in the discussion. There is no need to be hesitant about joining in the discussion.

If Mr. Wilson was ever interested in cementing an enduring legacy in the hearts of Bills fans for generations to come, this would be an easy win-win situation for him. His contribution to a long term deal and/or selling the team locally would make him a HERO. Personally, I would never speak unkindly of the man again. And this is from someone who has thought ill thoughts about him in the past.

[dwight in philly]

If Mr. Wilson was ever interested in cementing an enduring legacy in the hearts of Bills fans for generations to come, this would be an easy win-win situation for him. His contribution to a long term deal and/or selling the team locally would make him a HERO. Personally, I would never speak unkindly of the man again. And this is from someone who has thought ill thoughts about him in the past.

i am hoping that there is something behind the scenes taking place that will assure the bills stay put. whether it is wilson wording it in his will, or a sale that is on the Q T.. i do not know. i have read scuttlebut on here that something like that is in the works.sure would love to know.

[JohnC]

They don't have much leverage. Neither Poloncarz or Cuomo want to be responsible for the loss of Bills.

 

Let's be fair. The person who determines whether the team stays or goes is the owner. Why blame the public figures for something that they can't control?

 

No one outside of the Wilson circle knows exactly what the owner's estate plans are? The standard obligation for the executor of a will in disposing of assets is maximizing the sale of those assets. Has the owner made special arrangements to ensure that the franchise remains in the region after his passing? I can't say. I distinctly remember an occasion when he was asked what his plans were for the team. He stated that as long as he was alive the team would remain in the Buffalo area. When then asked what his plans were after he passed? His response, again, was that the team would remain in the region as long as he owned the team. He then irritatingly brushed off further inquiries on that particular topic. (I'm not criticizing the owner. Publicly discussing this type of topic with a gang of reporters would be uncomfortable for anyone.)

 

When Tom Golisano sold the Buffalo Sabres to Tom Pegular one of the terms for the sale was that Pegula had to keep the team in Buffalo whether he owned the team or later sold the team. (Tom Golisano did have a higher bid offer from another potential buyer who wanted to eventually move the team. That is not to say that the NHL would have approved a move.) In my view that is not the type of clause Ralph would insert when the team is sold.

 

This topic is very unsettling. Due to the age of the owner and the impending stadium upgrade issue the question of the future of the franchise can't be avoided. What frustrates a lot of people is the lack of transparency in this sensitive issue. The bottom line is that the owner is the owner and in the end what is going to be done is what he wants to be done. Some people are worried about that and others less so. Jim Kelly has made some claims that he is confident that the team will remain in the region when the owner passes. So maybe that is a good sign?

Edited May 13, 2012 by JohnC

[BRAWNDO]

Let's be fair. The person who determines whether the team stays or goes is the owner. Why blame the public figures for something that they can't control?

 

No one outside of the Wilson circle knows exactly what the owner's estate plans are? The standard obligation for the executor of a will in disposing of assets is maximizing the sale of those assets. Has the owner made special arrangements to ensure that the franchise remains in the region after his passing? I can't say. I distinctly remember an occasion when he was asked what his plans were for the team. He stated that as long as he was alive the team would remain in the Buffalo area. When then asked what his plans were after he passed? His response, again, was that the team would remain in the region as long as he owned the team. He then irritatingly brushed off further inquiries on that particular topic. (I'm not criticizing the owner. Publicly discussing this type of topic with a gang of reporters would be uncomfortable for anyone.)

 

When Tom Golisano sold the Buffalo Sabres to Tom Pegular one of the terms for the sale was that Pegula had to keep the team in Buffalo whether he owned the team or later sold the team. (Tom Golisano did have a higher bid offer from another potential buyer who wanted to eventually move the team. That is not to say that the NHL would have approved a move.) In my view that is not the type of clause Ralph would insert when the team is sold.

 

This topic is very unsettling. Due to the age of the owner and the impending stadium upgrade issue the question of the future of the franchise can't be avoided. What frustrates a lot of people is the lack of transparency in this sensitive issue. The bottom line is that the owner is the owner and in the end what is going to be done is what he wants to be done. Some people are worried about that and others less so. Jim Kelly has made some claims that he is confident that the team will remain in the region when the owner passes. So maybe that is a good sign?

 

John I should have done a better job explaining my point. Of course Poloncarz and Cuomo have no absolute control over what the Bills ultimately do. I do believe that both will do everything within reason to keep the Bills here. If they do leave it would give political fodder to their respective opponents in next election cycles. Cuomo did win the governor's mansion without WNY in 2010, but I do not think he would want to tempt fate twice. Poloncarz would have an extremely difficult time winning again if the Bills left.

 

On a side note Bob Mc Carthy TBN political reporter mentioned that Cuomo was in for a fundraiser in Buffalo last week, that was closed to reporters. Sources did indicate that Cuomo was escorted into the fundraiser by Poloncarz and Russ Brandon.

[JohnC]

John I should have done a better job explaining my point. Of course Poloncarz and Cuomo have no absolute control over what the Bills ultimately do. I do believe that both will do everything within reason to keep the Bills here. If they do leave it would give political fodder to their respective opponents in next election cycles. Cuomo did win the governor's mansion without WNY in 2010, but I do not think he would want to tempt fate twice. Poloncarz would have an extremely difficult time winning again if the Bills left.

 

On a side note Bob Mc Carthy TBN political reporter mentioned that Cuomo was in for a fundraiser in Buffalo last week, that was closed to reporters. Sources did indicate that Cuomo was escorted into the fundraiser by Poloncarz and Russ Brandon.

 

From what I understand the county has selected a law firm experienced in stadium lease negotiations. I'm sure that it is in the County's and even the franchise's interest to get a fair and reasonable deal done as opposed to trying to get a maximum deal done for either side. I'm not surprised that Brandon was at a political event attended by the Governor and County Executive because both individuals represents public entities with which a deal has to be made with in a lease agreement.

 

Most often closed door negotiations are more productive than negotiations that are done in public view. Going public and trying to gain leverage by arousing the public is not the type of approach that will get a deal done with Ralph Wilson. It will have the opposite affect. He is old school tough.

 

I may be making too much of a leap here but if a deal gets done for a relatively high priced renovation that is financially reasonable for the taxpayers that might be a good sign that there is a plan in place for keeping the franchise located in western NY. If a long term deal can't be done and the fallback position is a year to year lease with a minimal amount spent for a stadium upgrade then that would be an ominous sign.

[Awwufelloff]

I really hope the Bills build a stadium downtown like every other franchise in every professional sport... Why are we the odd man out?

[LabattBlue]

I really hope the Bills build a stadium downtown like every other franchise in every professional sport... Why are we the odd man out?

Kansas City, Miami, Boston(Patriots), Dallas, etc... all say Hi!

[/dev/null]

Yay! for more corporate welfare.

But as long as the fat cat 1%er Ziggy is paying his fair share, all is well right?

 

 

I'm amazed that we live in such a Techmalogical age that you can click a link to wish Michelle Obama a happy Mothers Day and then be re-directed to make a donation to Obama 2012.

 

But all those super smrt people we elect to run our government haven't figured out that instead of spending $200M they could a couple hundred or maybe a couple thousand dollars to put up a website. A website that says, hey we need money for a stadium for the Vikings. If you want to keep the Vikings in Minnesota, please donate a few bucks

 

Much easier to elect somebody who takes money from one person and gives it to somebody else

[BRAWNDO]

From what I understand the county has selected a law firm experienced in stadium lease negotiations. I'm sure that it is in the County's and even the franchise's interest to get a fair and reasonable deal done as opposed to trying to get a maximum deal done for either side. I'm not surprised that Brandon was at a political event attended by the Governor and County Executive because both individuals represents public entities with which a deal has to be made with in a lease agreement.

 

Most often closed door negotiations are more productive than negotiations that are done in public view. Going public and trying to gain leverage by arousing the public is not the type of approach that will get a deal done with Ralph Wilson. It will have the opposite affect. He is old school tough.

 

I may be making too much of a leap here but if a deal gets done for a relatively high priced renovation that is financially reasonable for the taxpayers that might be a good sign that there is a plan in place for keeping the franchise located in western NY. If a long term deal can't be done and the fallback position is a year to year lease with a minimal amount spent for a stadium upgrade then that would be an ominous sign.

 

It sounds like the Bills and Erie County are doing their due diligence with the negotiations. I think that as long as the negotiations are kept private some details of the succession plan will be released to State and County Officials to faciliate the State and County signing off on a new long term deal.

 

Not a big fan of corporate welfare, especially with sports teams, but unfortunately it is becoming a necessary evil to keep sports franchises locally.

[dwight in philly]

It sounds like the Bills and Erie County are doing their due diligence with the negotiations. I think that as long as the negotiations are kept private some details of the succession plan will be released to State and County Officials to faciliate the State and County signing off on a new long term deal.

 

Not a big fan of corporate welfare, especially with sports teams, but unfortunately it is becoming a necessary evil to keep sports franchises locally.

i am hoping that in fact, the negotiations are taking place and once the deal is done, it will be announced. it does take the emotional element out of it. hopefully, all parties realized in this fiscal climate that going public with the details would have brought a firestorm of emotions, pro and con. and you are right, providing a vehicle for a private entity to get richer off the taxpayer is hard to reconcile. but, as i have maintained, losing the bills just cannot happen .

Edited May 13, 2012 by dwight in philly

[Greybeard]

I'd be interested in the Cost of the stadium per game/event over the years. I know there have been a few non football events over the years but not many that I can remember.

[Mr. WEO]

As long as people believe the 200 million (it was just 100 million a few months ago...) will "keep the Bills in WNY", or that the Bills would actually leave, then craven politicians will pander to these types to ensure their re-election.

[dwight in philly]

I'd be interested in the Cost of the stadium per game/event over the years. I know there have been a few non football events over the years but not many that I can remember.

why? what makes you wonder?? who cares.. as long as the bills play there and we have an NFL TEAM..

[Awwufelloff]

Kansas City, Miami, Boston(Patriots), Dallas, etc... all say Hi!

 

I stand corrected, thanks. I just was under the impression everyone had all stadiums within the confines of the city. It usually is the better avenue to follow IMO. Did not Dallas just build a billion dollar stadium in the city? It would certainly beautify the Buffalo waterfront having an amazing football stadium with a retractable roof overlooking lake Erie. (Especially in the summer) So much space there not being used at all...

[drinkTHEkoolaid]

I don't understand how there can be serious discussion and negotiation of HUNDREDS of MILLIONS of dollars collected from taxpayers on this potential deal when no one has a clue what will happen to that franchise and investment when Ralph passes away which is inevitable.

 

It's easy to be attached emotionaly to this because its our beloved sports team. But imagine how you would feel if this was money taken from taxpayers given to say the NY Islanders who may pack up and leave in 2 years. or given to a potentially failing corporation like say solyndra where the public had a high possibility of never benefiting from the money.