stevie johnson

[loserlovers]

 

 

WR's drop balls.....nobody took TO's status away from him when he dropped passes because his overall production of outstanding in his career......he needs to stop with the stupid penalties.

I did! TO was a horrible reciever for us, he cost us games when he wouldnt fight for simple slants that became INT's, and how many teams ditched him? how do you know it wasnt in part do to poor hands? I always heard that about him and didnt care until i saw it w my own eyes. Having good hands is pretty important in the business of WR.

 

lol jesus christ, can you stop saying "penalty history"? he's made a few boneheaded decisions trying to make a name for himself. but by all accounts, he's a great guy, a family man, and a hard worker. there's no reason he shouldn't be able to move past that and take on a leadership role for this organization.

 

also, the !@#$ you know about his "overall upside"? he's had erratic QBing due to crappy players and injuries, and no legitimate talent at the other WR spot to take any coverages away. he's not a speed demon, and doesn't catch every pass thrown his way, but he's an elite route runner and gets open more than any WR i've watched in some time. with about 3-4 exceptions, a player's upside is strictly defined by the players around him and the system they're in. you add a healthy fitz for 16 games and a michael floyd to the offense and suddenly his "upside" goes up quite a bit.

HAHA "elite route runner" probably the least sought after tool in the WR toolbox. I know its important but any guy with half a brain can be an elite route runner. Its the guys w hands speed and size that are considered elite. I think elite route runners are also called possession receivers. whats next, "elite high motor guy","elite dump-off passer"?

[bowery4]

wow this is all so moot, I got through 3 pages and just skipped to the end. Steve is the Bills #1. This what it means to be a number 1 is more a question of what it means to be elite (interesting that a few people are debating the term not the player). This whole argument has the Fitz isn't an elite QB argument written all over it. None of it matters, if the offense is good and gets better. We are not these guys agents for Christs sake, who cares about this stuff?

BTW, Wes Welker true #1? you betchya, superstar/Megatron guy, no way.

[eball]

Love to see the numbers Stevie will put up if and when the Bills have another legitimate WR on the field also. Really hoping Easley develops into that guy (if they don't get Floyd or someone else in the draft).

[truth on hold]

I think the notion of #1 versus #2 is antiquated anyway. Whose #1 for pats gronk or Welker? #1 for saints? Giants? Doesn't work that way any more where good teams have just one guy they primarily milk. Passing is so prominent and plays so diverse you need multiple guys that can be "#1" on any given play. You have to commit to developing a whole unit of capable receivers these days, ranking them is of little value.

Edited April 16, 2012 by Joe_the_6_pack

[bonecrusherkev]

8 REC for 75 yards (1 TD) in the first game and 3 for 85 yards in the second game (both losses) is how we as Bills fans define OWNING a player? Seem like pretty average days for a WR to me. At least he had 8 REC but that YPC is not impressive at all. OWNING a player, to me at least, is throwing up numbers such as 5 REC 125 yards and 2 TD's...that is OWNING a player. Stevie had 2 decent games which he should have as a #1 WR. Just because Revis didnt shut him out does not mean he was OWNED...I am not defending REVIS but more so explaining what I feel a more logical definition of what OWNING a player means

 

...here, here...i agree TOTALLY!..and thanks

[Wayne Cubed]

HAHA "elite route runner" probably the least sought after tool in the WR toolbox. I know its important but any guy with half a brain can be an elite route runner. Its the guys w hands speed and size that are considered elite. I think elite route runners are also called possession receivers. whats next, "elite high motor guy","elite dump-off passer"?

I tried to stay away from this thread but...

 

You seriously lose all credibility with that statement. Jerry Rice, the best WR in history, that was onf of his best tools if not THE best. Jerry Rice was not fast by any means. If hands and speed were the only tool, guys like Lee Evans, Percy Harvin, Roscoe Parrish would be elite. They have/had all the speed in the world, but can't run routes nearly as well as SJ.

[bonecrusherkev]

Love to see the numbers Stevie will put up if and when the Bills have another legitimate WR on the field also. Really hoping Easley develops into that guy (if they don't get Floyd or someone else in the draft).

 

 

Exactly..thats why i dont think LT is dire in the 1st rd(plus we have an abundance of receivers on roster)..i think the most cerebral pick and most pro ready prospect is Luke Kuechly;the defense would be inpenetratable( is that a word?)

[bowery4]

inpenetratable( is that a word?)

not sure it is but I knew that girl.

[TheBrownBear]

8 REC for 75 yards (1 TD) in the first game and 3 for 85 yards in the second game (both losses) is how we as Bills fans define OWNING a player? Seem like pretty average days for a WR to me.

 

If you were to project that over a 16 game schedule, you end up with 88 rec. for 1280/yds, and 14.5 ypc. Keep in mind this is against the undisputed number one cover corner in the NFL. Not sure if that's owning Revis, but it's pretty darn good - and it's solid evidence of Stevie being worthy of the #1 receiver moniker.

[eball]

If you were to project that over a 16 game schedule, you end up with 88 rec. for 1280/yds, and 14.5 ypc. Keep in mind this is against the undisputed number one cover corner in the NFL. Not sure if that's owning Revis, but it's pretty darn good - and it's solid evidence of Stevie being worthy of the #1 receiver moniker.

Nice. I think that booger just got picked.

[loserlovers]

I tried to stay away from this thread but...

 

You seriously lose all credibility with that statement. Jerry Rice, the best WR in history, that was onf of his best tools if not THE best. Jerry Rice was not fast by any means. If hands and speed were the only tool, guys like Lee Evans, Percy Harvin, Roscoe Parrish would be elite. They have/had all the speed in the world, but can't run routes nearly as well as SJ.

i think harvin is more talented than stevie, lee was considered muchmore talented than stevie until he got old and had bad seasons due to injuries and trent edwards. He got more money and was a first round pick and had way better hands. Rice was a HOF because he had all the tools, not the fastest but stil fast enough and faster than stevie id wager.

 

So your argument then is that route running is the most important skill? funny i never see small slow guys go first in the draft then. I do see it constantly stated that these tall fast guys need to improve their "route running"...translation=it doesnt matter too much because they are still getting paid and picked first. Kind of like a RB that doesnt pass block well, its last on the list, not first. Stevie literally lives off his route running, but it is definitly the least important of the skills a WR can have. I lose no credibilty just because you dont agree.

 

Love to see the numbers Stevie will put up if and when the Bills have another legitimate WR on the field also. Really hoping Easley develops into that guy (if they don't get Floyd or someone else in the draft).

 

eball wouldnt his numbers go down if another threat emerges? wont more targets go to the other guy, like when reed had to play with moulds or quinn early came and they stole about half the production away from him?

[eball]

 

eball wouldnt his numbers go down if another threat emerges? wont more targets go to the other guy, like when reed had to play with moulds or quinn early came and they stole about half the production away from him?

No, I'm thinking about the Moulds/Price effect. Both had their best years when playing together.

[NewEra]

1334600606[/url]' post='2438064']

i think harvin is more talented than stevie, lee was considered muchmore talented than stevie until he got old and had bad seasons due to injuries and trent edwards. He got more money and was a first round pick and had way better hands. Rice was a HOF because he had all the tools, not the fastest but stil fast enough and faster than stevie id wager.

 

So your argument then is that route running is the most important skill? funny i never see small slow guys go first in the draft then. I do see it constantly stated that these tall fast guys need to improve their "route running"...translation=it doesnt matter too much because they are still getting paid and picked first. Kind of like a RB that doesnt pass block well, its last on the list, not first. Stevie literally lives off his route running, but it is definitly the least important of the skills a WR can have. I lose no credibilty just because you dont agree.

 

 

 

eball wouldnt his numbers go down if another threat emerges? wont more targets go to the other guy, like when reed had to play with moulds or quinn early came and they stole about half the production away from him?

 

I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that doesn't agree. Steve largent, Henry ellard, Andre Reed, Jerry rice, Art monk, Chris carter, John stallworth, Fred Billetnikoff, Raymond berry.....among others. Wide receivers that made their careers running great routes without great speed. You'd wager that rice was faster than Stevie....awesome. I'd wager that Stevie is faster than rice. We'll never know, so it's useless to speak of. You act as if in order to be an elite WR, you have to be taken in the 1st round. I agree, that a WR that is born with speed has a better chance to become a great Wr than a Wr w/o speed. The teams that draft these fast wrs that have issues running routes, hope that they will progress in their route running. Good coaching and dedication will help their learning curve. Wrs that don't have great speed, will likely never have it.... Hence the reason the fast wrs are drafted ahead (IMO). Route running can be taught. Speed cannot.

[CodeMonkey]

You'd wager that rice was faster than Stevie....awesome. I'd wager that Stevie is faster than rice. We'll never know, so it's useless to speak of.

A quick Google tells me that their 40 times were:

Stevie Johnson: 4.59

Jerry Rice: 4.71

 

Is .12 seconds over 40 yards significant? I wouldn't think so, but for ranking purposes it would appear Johnson would rank as faster.

[HarkinBanks]

I'm pretty sure he's not the only one that doesn't agree. Steve largent, Henry ellard, Andre Reed, Jerry rice, Art monk, Chris carter, John stallworth, Fred Billetnikoff, Raymond berry.....among others. Wide receivers that made their careers running great routes without great speed. You'd wager that rice was faster than Stevie....awesome. I'd wager that Stevie is faster than rice. We'll never know, so it's useless to speak of. You act as if in order to be an elite WR, you have to be taken in the 1st round. I agree, that a WR that is born with speed has a better chance to become a great Wr than a Wr w/o speed. The teams that draft these fast wrs that have issues running routes, hope that they will progress in their route running. Good coaching and dedication will help their learning curve. Wrs that don't have great speed, will likely never have it.... Hence the reason the fast wrs are drafted ahead (IMO). Route running can be taught. Speed cannot.

 

I actually wonder about that...can route running be taught? If it can, then it would not be such a unique and important attribute for a receiver. I think route running is a completely separate athletic attribute, just like speed. Some guys have it, some don't. I am sure receivers can improve their route running, but to say it can be taught can't be entirely true or all WRs would be great route runners...which they are not.

[buffalover4life]

people seem to forget that stevie was playing hurt almost the whole season with a strained groin, kind of important when it comes to running good clean routes and he still managed to have a good season.

[John from Riverside]

i think harvin is more talented than stevie, lee was considered muchmore talented than stevie until he got old and had bad seasons due to injuries and trent edwards. He got more money and was a first round pick and had way better hands. Rice was a HOF because he had all the tools, not the fastest but stil fast enough and faster than stevie id wager.

 

So your argument then is that route running is the most important skill? funny i never see small slow guys go first in the draft then. I do see it constantly stated that these tall fast guys need to improve their "route running"...translation=it doesnt matter too much because they are still getting paid and picked first. Kind of like a RB that doesnt pass block well, its last on the list, not first. Stevie literally lives off his route running, but it is definitly the least important of the skills a WR can have. I lose no credibilty just because you dont agree.

 

 

 

eball wouldnt his numbers go down if another threat emerges? wont more targets go to the other guy, like when reed had to play with moulds or quinn early came and they stole about half the production away from him?

 

 

Actually no they would probably go up because Stevie might see less double coverage

[NewEra]

1334610394[/url]' post='2438190']

I actually wonder about that...can route running be taught? If it can, then it would not be such a unique and important attribute for a receiver. I think route running is a completely separate athletic attribute, just like speed. Some guys have it, some don't. I am sure receivers can improve their route running, but to say it can be taught can't be entirely true or all WRs would be great route runners...which they are not.

 

I believe wrs can improve their route running. I shouldn't have used the word "taught" (if I said it). I agree that some wrs have some instincts that can't be taught. But I do believe they can improve their route running. I'm not so sure about the speed and athletic ability (maybe to an extent, but not much that will actually make a difference. Hence the reason the big fast wrs are selected ahead of the guys that just run great routes.