John Adams Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) Seen this rising tide of voices on Facebook advocating for forgiveness of student loans by signing this petition. The petition reads in part: Total outstanding student loan debt in America is expected to exceed $1 TRILLION this year. Millions of hardworking, taxpaying, educated Americans are being crushed under the weight of their educational debts, while the economy continues to sputter. Support a REAL economic stimulus and jobs plan. Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 (H.R. 4170). Since 1980, average tuition for a 4-year college education has increased an astounding 827%. Since 1999, average student loan debt has increased by a shameful 511%. In 2010, total outstanding student loan debt exceeded total outstanding credit card debt in America for the first time ever. In 2012, total outstanding student loan debt is expected to exceed $1 Trillion. The Freakonomics site has a rebuttal that in part says Let's look at this through five separate lenses: Distribution: If we are going to give money away, why on earth would we give it to college grads? Macroeconomics: This is the worst macro policy I've ever heard of. If you want stimulus, you get more bang-for-your-buck if you give extra dollars to folks who are most likely to spend each dollar. Imagine what would happen if you forgave $50,000 in debt. How much of that would get spent in the next month or year? Education Policy: Perhaps folks think that forgiving educational loans will lead more people to get an education. No, it won't. This is a proposal to forgive the debt of folks who already have an education. Political Economy: This is a bunch of kids who don't want to pay their loans back. And worse: Do this once, and what will happen in the next recession? Politics: Notice the political rhetoric? Give free money to us, rather than "corporations, millionaires and billionaires." Opportunity cost is one of the key principles of economics. And that principle says to compare your choice with the next best alternative. Instead, they're comparing it with the worst alternative. So my question for the proponents: Why give money to college grads rather than the 15% of the population in poverty? The comments on the Freakonomics article are more telling than anything. Waah, I can't find a job. Waah, I have student loans. Edited March 21, 2012 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Seen this rising tide of voices on Facebook advocating for forgiveness of student loans by signing this petition. The petition reads in part: The Freakonomics site has a rebuttal that in part says The comments on the Freakonomics article are more telling than anything. Waah, I can't find a job. Waah, I have student loans. Not everyone is crying. I mentioned the client one of my reps had who has nearly $500k in student loan debt. She said she needed a $500k life insurance policy should something happen to her the debt could be paid. This is even with her parents as co-signers on less than half. She's still an idios for going to school for ten years but she's not asking for forgiveness. And this is whiney hippy haven up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACor58 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) How about they sign a petition asking for refunds from the colleges that couldn't prepare them for the working world. The same colleges with multi million / billion dollar endowaments but keep raising tuition and still offer useless degrees in Art History, Sociology, and Euro-Franco History. What freaking planet are these people from? These people are all spoiled and entitled. Edited March 21, 2012 by ACor58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Oh, those poor middle and upper-middle class kids with their private school degrees in English Lit! Whatever will they do??? Doesn't the government know that making them pay back their debts makes it so much harder for them to afford eating out at nice restaurants every weekend, subscribing to the HBO package and going in on a beach house with their friends this summer??? If I was Emperor, every whiny Facebooker who signed that petition would have an extra $10K added to their debt just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 Not everyone is crying. I mentioned the client one of my reps had who has nearly $500k in student loan debt. She said she needed a $500k life insurance policy should something happen to her the debt could be paid. This is even with her parents as co-signers on less than half. She's still an idios for going to school for ten years but she's not asking for forgiveness. And this is whiney hippy haven up here. She's the exception, as I'm sure you're aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 There was a program when I went to school that basically said, if we maintained a certain GPA, and participated in X number of approved activities, the university would be willing to fund a year of grad school if we didn't get a job when we graduated. Not a bad option. Nevertheless, I have a 2 part plan to solve this crisis: 1) We instill a traditional Japanese code of honor and shame for the HS/college age kids. That way if they fail to get a job when they graduate, they have brought shame to their family and harikari is the only honorable course of action. 2) Or, JiA can shoot anyone in head that whines about school loans. Either way it's a 2 front win: 1) I don't have to listen to BS whining about loans 2) People will stop giving loans to kids who are likely to be dead after they graduate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 She's the exception, as I'm sure you're aware. No I'm not aware of that. So you think that the majority of people with student loan debts are screaming for a refund? Really?? This is a very loud minority that is being laughed at by the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Where are the screams about bailing out universities? Occupy Harvard, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I think we need to hear these voices and bail them out. After all, it's not like they had a choice. They were forced to go to school and take on that debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Where are the screams about bailing out universities? Occupy Harvard, anyone? Harvard and Yale's endowments total about $50 billion but they want the banks to foot the bill of their loans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) No I'm not aware of that. So you think that the majority of people with student loan debts are screaming for a refund? Really?? This is a very loud minority that is being laughed at by the majority. I was guessing she was the exception among your local hippie population. I wonder how small that minority is. That petition has almost 700 hundred thousand signatures. It looks like the most signed petition on that whole site. (Of course, many sigs are fraudulent.) Edited March 21, 2012 by John Adams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Hey wait... What about student loan forgiveness Act of 1990! Damn... I already paid it off! I think we need to hear these voices and bail them out. After all, it's not like they had a choice. They were forced to go to school and take on that debt. Good points. Not forced, but the trend of getting away from the trades and pushing college prep was a wrong direction many moons ago (over 30+ years). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) They voluntarily accepted the loan money, agreed to repay the loan amounts and interest and used that money to obtain something of value to them (well as much value as a liberal arts degree in women's studies or art history has). Too God damned bad that they have to repay their loans. Welcome to life, now pay up douchebags. Edited March 21, 2012 by Koko78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 They voluntarily accepted the loan money, agreed to repay the loan amounts and interest and used that money to obtain something of value to them (well as much value as a liberal arts degree in women's studies or art history has). Too God damned bad that they have to repay their loans. Welcome to life, now pay up douchebags. No, no, you don't understand. The students didn't do anything wrong. Student loan companies are notoriously and historically predatory lenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I was guessing she was the exception among your local hippie population. I wonder how small that minority is. That petition has almost 700 hundred thousand signatures. It looks like the most signed petition on that whole site. (Of course, many sigs are fraudulent.) Yes that's a big number but not compared the the numbers I imagine of people willfully paying their loans off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 (edited) No, no, you don't understand. The students didn't do anything wrong. Student loan companies are notoriously and historically predatory lenders. You are right, of course. I've been too busy in my solid gold and ivory mansion laughing at the 99%'s misery with the rest of my fellow 1%ers to realize how evil and predatory student loans actually are. I apologize, and as an act of contrition, I swear before the almighty deity of some oppressed non-christian religion that I will hug a 14 trees and not shower for a week as I occupy some random street corner to protest random things. Edited March 21, 2012 by Koko78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 Wait, so the government put together a program that was supposed to help people and it's had a bad long term effect because they didn't do a good job of assessing the possible consequences? How surprising. At least all of these "graduates" have those great pieces of paper and the guarantee of minimum wage to show for the six figure debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 I signed it. Only way I could add a comment pointing out how retarded it was. Too bad they can't make student loans contingent on majoring in something that has some reasonable prospect of employment after college. "You want a quarter-million dollar loan for college...to double-major in women's studies and music theory? Here, I'll loan you a quarter, go call mom and dad and tell them you're not going to college..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 I signed it. Only way I could add a comment pointing out how retarded it was. I think we just figured where most of those 700,000 signatures came from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted March 22, 2012 Author Share Posted March 22, 2012 1332374284[/url]' post='2417999']I signed it. Only way I could add a comment pointing out how retarded it was. Too bad they can't make student loans contingent on majoring in something that has some reasonable prospect of employment after college. "You want a quarter-million dollar loan for college...to double-major in women's studies and music theory? Here, I'll loan you a quarter, go call mom and dad and tell them you're not going to college..." I yelled at all the people on the Freakonomics board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts