WalterFootball.com on Coples and Ingram

[The Big Cat]

Ingram's 2" shorter and 35 lb heavier than Maybin.

 

Plus Maybin had 6 sacks & 4 FF in spot duty last year. George Edwards didn't know how to use him.

 

George Edwards is the only coach that I've outright vilified at OBD over the past half-decade. I even gave a pass to Jauron up until his last two months or so.

 

Maybin didn't not succeed in Buffalo then suddenly succeed in NYC because of George Edwards, or any other coach for that matter. He succeeded in NYC because they had the talent that drew enough attention for him to run free, and make unimpeded plays.

[Coach Tuesday]

No one is talking about Brockers. I would not at all be surprised if he is the pick at 10 (if he makes it).

[bmur66]

Bruce Smith had 8 ft. long arms

[PDaDdy]

WalterFootball.com has Coples going to Miami @ #8 due to the Dolfhins' move to a 43. He would be a complement to Cameron Wake as a pass rusher. However, Walter adds the following Caveat Emptor; "the effort was not there when he was a senior, and the only times he looked good in the Senior Bowl was when he was matched against guards Kelechi Osemele and Senio Kelemte. Tackles Mike Adams and Mitchell Schwartz completely stonewalled him. I wouldn't touch him with a top 12 pick, but there's no doubt that he'll likely be picked in the top 10".

 

Walter has Buffalo selecting Melvin Ingram stating "Gailey has recently harped about not being able to get the quarterback". "Melvin Ingram is currently the top pass rusher available in the wake of dominant Senior Bowl practices. He's a bit short for a 43 scheme (6'1") and has arms like twigs, but he has elite explosion. The Bills are officially sticking with the 43, so he makes more sense than Courtney Upshaw.

 

Incidently; Walter has Upshaw going to the Jets at #16 due to the fact the Jets play the 34.

 

I know there are readers of this site that love Coples and Upshaw. Is there anyone out there that would like to offer a cogent comment?

 

 

You have official found the one and only source of supposedly bad information regarding Coples and the senior bowl. Guess we should throw out every other talent evaluater that says he is the real deal and best defensive prospect in the draft.

[section122]

You have official found the one and only source of supposedly bad information regarding Coples and the senior bowl. Guess we should throw out every other talent evaluater that says he is the real deal and best defensive prospect in the draft.

Claiborne is rated to be the best defensive prospect in the draft.

 

As far as d-line I have seen Brockers, Ingram, Upshaw, Coples, and Still as the highest ranked player across a multitude of forums. The question on Coples is still his motor. I don't care what his measurables are that worries me. I also could care less about a post season scrimmage. Turn on the game tape and be underwhelmed by Coples. Turn it on and get a different vibe from all of the others I listed.

 

As a serious question, when was the last time a player with motivation/effort issues in college turned out to be good in the pros? I'm struggling to come up with an answer on that one.

[Fedido]

Being a Gamecock fan in SC I've seen Ingram's play and unlike Maybin he's been producing most of his college career. He played a utility guy though where he'd line up at end, tackle, and LB. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but he wasn't a "pure" pass rushing DE in the strictest sense. High character guy though so if anyone can overcome their "physical deficiencies" he can. I'd except him at #10, I'd love him in a trade down!

 

I am too in Gamecock country and have been watching Ingram. I would be stoked if he made it to the Bills!

 

GO BILLS!

[PDaDdy]

Claiborne is rated to be the best defensive prospect in the draft.

 

As far as d-line I have seen Brockers, Ingram, Upshaw, Coples, and Still as the highest ranked player across a multitude of forums. The question on Coples is still his motor. I don't care what his measurables are that worries me. I also could care less about a post season scrimmage. Turn on the game tape and be underwhelmed by Coples. Turn it on and get a different vibe from all of the others I listed.

 

As a serious question, when was the last time a player with motivation/effort issues in college turned out to be good in the pros? I'm struggling to come up with an answer on that one.

 

People are making WAY to much of this didn't play hard his senior year crap. The guy has played DT and DE and gets double teamed all over the place. Apparently his opponents didn't believe the hype about his motor.

 

I have actually gone and looked at anything I could find on Coples and see a player. Granted this is a small sample size as their isn't too much out there. People LOVE LOVE LOVE to throw out measurables when it doesn't suite their argument. Football is a tough game for big strong fast people. You can't get around that. When you find guys that excel but don't fit that mold they are the EXCEPTION not the RULE!

 

Coples would be a great addition to our team and I hope like hell the Dolphins don't draft him. I would hate to see that guy going up against our UFA and late round pick OTs. *shiver*

 

Don't strain your brain. I doubt you will find a list of players that were labeled with motivation effort issues so identifying success stories from that non existent list is pointless. The first mistake is that you believe the hype about his "motivation issues". I think his numbers speak pretty well for themselves INCLUDING his ridiculous measureables.

Edited February 13, 2012 by PDaDdy

[section122]

People are making WAY to much of this didn't play hard his senior year crap. The guy has played DT and DE and gets double teamed all over the place. Apparently his opponents didn't believe the hype about his motor.

 

I have actually gone and looked at anything I could find on Coples and see a player. Granted this is a small sample size as their isn't too much out there. People LOVE LOVE LOVE to throw out measurables when it doesn't suite their argument. Football is a tough game for big strong fast people. You can't get around that. When you find guys that excel but don't fit that mold they are the EXCEPTION not the RULE!

 

Coples would be a great addition to our team and I hope like hell the Dolphins don't draft him. I would hate to see that guy going up against our UFA and late round pick OTs. *shiver*

 

Don't strain your brain. I doubt you will find a list of players that were labeled with motivation effort issues so identifying success stories from that non existent list is pointless. The first mistake is that you believe the hype about his "motivation issues". I think his numbers speak pretty well for themselves INCLUDING his ridiculous measureables.

 

Your man crush on Coples is as apparent as Barbarians on Tannehill but still I did go look up the stats as you requested and this is what I found:

2011

of his 7.5 sacks 4.5 came against Duke, James Madison and East Carolina

5 games held sackless

0 forced fumbles

 

his measurables are more than impressive but there is a litany of guys with measurables that didn't work out for a variety of reasons including work ethic. His numbers production wise are nothing to brag about. 0 ff and 7.5 sacks do not scream all-pro to me. The don't even whisper all-pro to me. Especially in the ACC which is far from a power conference.

 

As for my question of players who were labeled lazy and turned it around I am sure there are people that remember names and I was just wondering if any turned out to be studs so maybe I can get on board with Coples. As it stands now that label worries me much more than short arms does.

[PDaDdy]

Your man crush on Coples is as apparent as Barbarians on Tannehill but still I did go look up the stats as you requested and this is what I found:

2011

of his 7.5 sacks 4.5 came against Duke, James Madison and East Carolina

5 games held sackless

0 forced fumbles

 

his measurables are more than impressive but there is a litany of guys with measurables that didn't work out for a variety of reasons including work ethic. His numbers production wise are nothing to brag about. 0 ff and 7.5 sacks do not scream all-pro to me. The don't even whisper all-pro to me. Especially in the ACC which is far from a power conference.

 

As for my question of players who were labeled lazy and turned it around I am sure there are people that remember names and I was just wondering if any turned out to be studs so maybe I can get on board with Coples. As it stands now that label worries me much more than short arms does.

 

Ah the man crush defense. *sigh*. I just see a good player that most everyone ranks very highly that for some reason people on this board are afraid of because of a supposed motivation issue. The guy produces and looks like a player on film.

 

That being said I have no problem with Upshaw and think he will actually be our pick as Coples will already be gone. Both fit needs and both should be starters from day one. I just don't see a real reason for the hate. How did Orakpo work out playing in supposedly a second class conference? I heard all manor of explanations for why he wouldn't pan out like the conference he played in, the school he went to and I think even motivation issues were alleged yet he is doing just fine.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I have actually gone and looked at anything I could find on Coples and see a player. Granted this is a small sample size as their isn't too much out there.

There's videotape of hundreds of Coples downs from scrimmage.

 

How many plays do you need to see before you consider the sample size to have statistical validity?

 

 

[Astrobot]

Being a Gamecock fan in SC I've seen Ingram's play and unlike Maybin he's been producing most of his college career. He played a utility guy though where he'd line up at end, tackle, and LB. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but he wasn't a "pure" pass rushing DE in the strictest sense. High character guy though so if anyone can overcome their "physical deficiencies" he can. I'd except him at #10, I'd love him in a trade down!

Call Ingram "scheme-versatile". Nix gets a chub when you say "scheme-versatile".

[3rdand12]

he does. it's true about Nix. We may not pick pass rush at 10 astro. Lot of time for movement and shifting bp a position before draft time. but we dont reach and we dont trade down. At least thats the theory.

I might be slanted because i am not thrilled with the first picks at 4-3 de or olb.

Point taken is that we like versatility on Dee because it just makes sense these days. seems wise enough for us now.

[Rob's House]

You have official found the one and only source of supposedly bad information regarding Coples and the senior bowl. Guess we should throw out every other talent evaluater that says he is the real deal and best defensive prospect in the draft.

I don't know much about Coples first hand, but the motivation issue has been widely reported with him. Perhaps it's just a rumor that stuck, but it's pretty pervasive.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

I don't know much about Coples first hand, but the motivation issue has been widely reported with him. Perhaps it's just a rumor that stuck, but it's pretty pervasive.

His game lacks explosion, violence, suddenness, hunger…

 

A lot of people automatically assume it has to do with motivation but it's also possible that the guy is simply not a quick-twitch athlete.

 

Ingram on the other hand apparently needs to have his shirts custom made so that his ridiculously short arms don't look as conspicuous however he is exhibit A when it comes to explosive movement.

 

I don't know if it's effort with Coples but you can easily see his lack of explosiveness in the videotape… whatever the reasons.

 

 

 

edit: To add to this thought, think of some of the really tall NBA players you've seen over the years… some athletes are slow and ponderous… loping up and down the court.

 

In this example, it's not that they're lazy… it's a manifestation of the type of muscle fiber that they possess.

[CarolinaBill]

I am too in Gamecock country and have been watching Ingram. I would be stoked if he made it to the Bills!

 

GO BILLS!

Count me in on that one, only way to make it better would be to snag Alshon Jeffrey in a trade down scenario

[JohnC]

 

That being said I have no problem with Upshaw and think he will actually be our pick as Coples will already be gone. Both fit needs and both should be starters from day one. I just don't see a real reason for the hate. How did Orakpo work out playing in supposedly a second class conference? I heard all manor of explanations for why he wouldn't pan out like the conference he played in, the school he went to and I think even motivation issues were alleged yet he is doing just fine.

 

You are exhibiting a great deal of revisionism regarding Orakpo. The overwhelming number of people preferred Orakpo over Maybin. Almost all the scouting services rated Orakpo over Maybin. It was Jauron and our erratic scouting department that preferred Maybin due to his quick first step. Maybin was simply a standard bad first round pick made by an organization that had a history of making head scratching bad picks. The draft mistake had nothing to do with the clamor of the masses who were for the most part were yelling take the Texas guy.

Edited February 15, 2012 by JohnC

[tombstone56]

ARMS LIKE TWIGS,LOL, actually i'm waiting to see his bench numbers but ive heard its "arms like a girl"!

[BillsCelticsAngelsBama]

No one is talking about Brockers. I would not at all be surprised if he is the pick at 10 (if he makes it).

Man, who started this Brockers Kool-Aid? The Bills need pass rush ability and he has virtually no ability, yet. He's a redshirt soph. that will probably come in to his own about the time he becomes a free-agent. If you can't get a pass rusher @ #10 then take either Mike Adams, Jonathan Martin, Kendall Wright,Michael Floyd, Courtney Upshaw or Luke Kuelchy and then take a chance on a Vinny Curry in round 2.

Brockers and Nick Perry are myths that need to be disposed of before someone @ 2BillsDrive starts believing them.

[Cheddar's Dad]

Man, who started this Brockers Kool-Aid? The Bills need pass rush ability and he has virtually no ability, yet. He's a redshirt soph. that will probably come in to his own about the time he becomes a free-agent. If you can't get a pass rusher @ #10 then take either Mike Adams, Jonathan Martin, Kendall Wright,Michael Floyd, Courtney Upshaw or Luke Kuelchy and then take a chance on a Vinny Curry in round 2.

Brockers and Nick Perry are myths that need to be disposed of before someone @ 2BillsDrive starts believing them.

 

Who stated the Brockers hype? The guys who evaluate football talent, I think. If you watched the NFL Network last night, you would have seen Brockers penetrate O-linemen, time after time, causing QBs to scramble for their lives. I think he can be a pass rusher. He seems to be quick and strong on his feet. He played DT at LSU. He certainly would fortify Buffalo's run D. Brockers, I think, will end up being a higher rated player than any of the available DEs in this draft. If you want value at #10, you select Brackers over Coples, Ingram, Upshaw, or any of the others. If the Bills think he can play DE, it's a no brainer. Problem is, he is such a fast riser, he likely won't be there at #10. Do yourself a favor. Watch some film on Brockers.

[H2o]

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=83709&draftyear=2012&genpos=DE

 

This should be our man @ #10. The guy is a beast. A plethora of moves, never quits on a play, as explosive as they come, and he had at least one sack in 11 of 13 games(one of those without being a game he basically sat out of against South Dakota St.)this past season. He reminds me a lot of JPP watching him play. He had 57 total tackles, 22.5 tackles for loss, 16 sacks, and 9 forced fumbles. I just hope we make the right choice.