Section 237 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's almost like anybody putting a post on this should probably be stating their age right upfront. Unless you were there at the time, an engaged fan, how can you have much of a real opinion? Stats tell us really very little. You had to be there. You had to see him play. You had to see how the other guys in either league at the time played. Everything needs context. I saw him play back then. I was an avid Bill's fan then. It sort of left my mind until I saw the "Namath" documentary, then it all kinda came flooding back. What a remarkable guy. if something shines only for a short time but shines that brightly.......well.....I am all in. For those of you that didn't see it? How would you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vorpma Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You have to add the Ravens to the list also because they were the old Cleveland Browns of teams I never root for in the Super Bowl. I always want any original AFL team to win. I hated Super Bowl V. The first year of the merger and you had two NFL teams playing. It was also one of the most boring Super Bowls ever played. AFL forever! DITTO! Could not agree more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's almost like anybody putting a post on this should probably be stating their age right upfront. Unless you were there at the time, an engaged fan, how can you have much of a real opinion? Stats tell us really very little. You had to be there. You had to see him play. You had to see how the other guys in either league at the time played. Everything needs context. I saw him play back then. I was an avid Bill's fan then. It sort of left my mind until I saw the "Namath" documentary, then it all kinda came flooding back. What a remarkable guy. if something shines only for a short time but shines that brightly.......well.....I am all in. For those of you that didn't see it? How would you know? True enough, It is also important to understand that most fans were either NFl fans Or AFL fans. The big threat to Football in Buffalo was that the entire AFL would fold. Most fans were Bills fans but they also rooted for whatever team the AFL champion in the Super bowl put up against the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's almost like anybody putting a post on this should probably be stating their age right upfront. Unless you were there at the time, an engaged fan, how can you have much of a real opinion? Stats tell us really very little. You had to be there. You had to see him play. You had to see how the other guys in either league at the time played. Everything needs context. I saw him play back then. I was an avid Bill's fan then. It sort of left my mind until I saw the "Namath" documentary, then it all kinda came flooding back. What a remarkable guy. if something shines only for a short time but shines that brightly.......well.....I am all in. For those of you that didn't see it? How would you know? Exactly Section 237!! It's about perspective. If you lived during the time, then you remember the back-drop from whence the events took place. That's what you nailed when U put "Everything needs context." Spot on. And that's when memories do "Kinda come flooding back." You remember so much else, and the emotions are there as well. I tried putting that in, the back drop of that era in football, in earlier posts on the topic. People that didn't live during the Namath era, have a different view of him, even if they do like & appreciate the guy, because they weren't around to remember when he was playing & what pro football was like, they go to other things they think puts things accurately....stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Kelly may have been more productive, but Namath was FAR more significant. His (HUGE) signing was a major coup for the AFL. (Now if the USFL succeeded, maybe we'd be talking a different tune.) He was the 1st QB to throw for 4000 yards. He was also the 1st real "superstar", at least in football. He may have only had a few really good years,but he was far bigger than Kelly or pretty much anyone since. True. Namath not only put the AFL on the map, but his signing with the Jets made the AFL a real threat. The AFL was not going away and Namath was it's show piece. I am biased of course, but as a kid I thought the AFL games were more fun to watch and by the late 60's the AFL had better players. After Namath, you can argue that OJ Simpson was the next biggest star of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It's almost like anybody putting a post on this should probably be stating their age right upfront. Unless you were there at the time, an engaged fan, how can you have much of a real opinion? Stats tell us really very little. You had to be there. You had to see him play. You had to see how the other guys in either league at the time played. Everything needs context. I saw him play back then. I was an avid Bill's fan then. It sort of left my mind until I saw the "Namath" documentary, then it all kinda came flooding back. What a remarkable guy. if something shines only for a short time but shines that brightly.......well.....I am all in. For those of you that didn't see it? How would you know? Well said. Like Sayers and some others, Namath didn't shine very long but man, his light was something else. GO BILLS!!! True enough, It is also important to understand that most fans were either NFl fans Or AFL fans. The big threat to Football in Buffalo was that the entire AFL would fold. Most fans were Bills fans but they also rooted for whatever team the AFL champion in the Super bowl put up against the NFL. Absolutely. As much as I hated the Chiefs for beating us and getting to SB I, we rooted for them like crazy to beat the Packers. And we were ecstatic when they beat the Vikings to even the score at 2 apiece. GO BILLS!!! Exactly Section 237!! It's about perspective. If you lived during the time, then you remember the back-drop from whence the events took place. That's what you nailed when U put "Everything needs context." Spot on. And that's when memories do "Kinda come flooding back." You remember so much else, and the emotions are there as well. I tried putting that in, the back drop of that era in football, in earlier posts on the topic. People that didn't live during the Namath era, have a different view of him, even if they do like & appreciate the guy, because they weren't around to remember when he was playing & what pro football was like, they go to other things they think puts things accurately....stats. Gotta agree with you again, Rev. You guys are nailing it today. GO BILLS!!! True. Namath not only put the AFL on the map, but his signing with the Jets made the AFL a real threat. The AFL was not going away and Namath was it's show piece. I am biased of course, but as a kid I thought the AFL games were more fun to watch and by the late 60's the AFL had better players. After Namath, you can argue that OJ Simpson was the next biggest star of the NFL. Yep. Namath's signing scared the NFL establishment and probably convinced them to think about merging. Some of those AFL owners had deep pockets and could engage in a bidding war if pushed. Good point about OJ, too. As an aside and to show what a cool guy that Namath was, before the last game in 2003 when OJ needed like 63 yards to break Jim Brown's record against the Jets, he said "I hope it takes him 63 carries to get the record against us, but yeah, I hope the cat gets the record." Or something like that. I though that was pretty cool at the time. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 For the AFL aficionados, did you know that Greg Cook of the Bengals (who could have been one of the greatest QBs ever if not for his injury) died at age 65 on Friday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRHater69 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I remember Greg Cook, it was shoulder injury that did him in, he seemed to have a bright future. Wonder how the AFL/AFC would have been different if the Bengals had a real QB back then. I find it ironic that Namath only hoped to play 4 years of pro football when he was signed. If you look at his career, that's about what he got before the injuries started to take their toll. If his knee was treated properly in college, he might have had a better back end to his career. It was sad as a fan back in the 70s seeing him wind up in LA and be forced into retirement. I enjoyed the special, but I love anything that has old film and video of the AFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 FYI, Namath's knee brace is in a glass case in the HOF. Looks like a medical device from the Civil War! It had to be brutal just to wear that thing let alone play w/ it on. Been to the HOF twice. First in '85 to see OJ get inducted, but along with him, ironically, Joe, as well as Staubach. Enjoyed the ceremonies & the Hall very much. (They also have Y.A. Title's broken Giant's helmet from the 1963 Championship game.) That gear back then was NOT high tech. Second time I was at the HOF was in 2002 to see Marv get enshrined. Swan & Jack Yougblood went in the Hall that year as well. Remember Youngblood? Played an NFC championship game with a broken leg. Now there's a true AFL'er. If you love pro football & haven't visited the HOF, put it on your MUST DO bucket list! You'll be glad you did. I'll probably be going back yet again at least one other time before my time is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbb Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I remember Greg Cook, it was shoulder injury that did him in, he seemed to have a bright future. Wonder how the AFL/AFC would have been different if the Bengals had a real QB back then. I find it ironic that Namath only hoped to play 4 years of pro football when he was signed. If you look at his career, that's about what he got before the injuries started to take their toll. If his knee was treated properly in college, he might have had a better back end to his career. It was sad as a fan back in the 70s seeing him wind up in LA and be forced into retirement. I enjoyed the special, but I love anything that has old film and video of the AFL. What was amazing was to see how fast and what a great runner he was at Bama before his knee injury. I never knew that..........And, yeah, it takes me forever to watch a doc like that because I have to keep freeze framing all the great pics, etc. Willie Mays, the Mick, Ali, all the hot chicks! - what a crazy time that was, too with those wild fashions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) FYI, Namath's knee brace is in a glass case in the HOF. Looks like a medical device from the Civil War! It had to be brutal just to wear that thing let alone play w/ it on. Been to the HOF twice. First in '85 to see OJ get inducted, but along with him, ironically, Joe, as well as Staubach. Enjoyed the ceremonies & the Hall very much. (They also have Y.A. Title's broken Giant's helmet from the 1963 Championship game.) That gear back then was NOT high tech. Second time I was at the HOF was in 2002 to see Marv get enshrined. Swan & Jack Yougblood went in the Hall that year as well. Remember Youngblood? Played an NFC championship game with a broken leg. Now there's a true AFL'er. If you love pro football & haven't visited the HOF, put it on your MUST DO bucket list! You'll be glad you did. I'll probably be going back yet again at least one other time before my time is done. Couldn't agree more...the week after Christmas 2010, two of my sisters and I drove from Buffalo, to Canton and then, Cleveland, to see the NFL and Rock-n'Roll HOF's. Actually, sisters didn't go to the NFL HOF, I just spent about 8 hours there, by myself...it was awesome....I could have probably spent another day there. Love seeing all the old uniforms, and busted helmets...the place just wreaks of history...I have never made it there for an induction weekend... maybe if Andre ever makes it in. Would be a blast to do that, and then see the Bills in a HOF game... BTW- the classic picture of YA Tittle, bleeding head, collapsed in the endzone, after that loss, is, to me, maybe the greatest sports photo of all time... http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.manlyweb.com/sports/injuries/yatittle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.manlyweb.com/sports/injuries/yatittle-photo.htm&h=689&w=600&sz=59&tbnid=qkUxwf9bKO9NMM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=78&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dya%2Btittle%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=ya+tittle&docid=xjaig51jYkOalM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=y9coT5LVNcuI0QHYlcXgAg&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQ9QEwBg&dur=69 Edited February 1, 2012 by Buftex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim in Anchorage Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think that's what I said. In vorpma's first post he said that he didn't like the Colts because they weren't an AFL team. That's why I said to add the Steelers and Browns if that's was the criteria. Guess I wasn't clear enough. Won't be the last time. GO BILLS!!! I reread your post sober. You were clear, I was foggy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) True enough, It is also important to understand that most fans were either NFl fans Or AFL fans. The big threat to Football in Buffalo was that the entire AFL would fold. Most fans were Bills fans but they also rooted for whatever team the AFL champion in the Super bowl put up against the NFL. I would have rooted for Len Dawson, but not Joe Namath. Len Dawson did it with class, and Namath did not... there are MANY AFL coaches and players that were great to me, but to canonize him for one game is insane. I don't care if Super Bowl III made the NFL, I still will not feel Namath is worthy of the Hall of Fame. The argument that a player is better is made all the time by people who didn't watch athletes play (Bill James of SABR, for instance, what of him? Pretty sure he never saw Honus Wagner play), and so I discount that totally. Edited February 1, 2012 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRHater69 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Not to get off topic but what amazes me is how much better some of the athletes of that era could have been had they had the equipment, medical care, and most importantly the training that today's athletes have. Guys would finish the football season and start working part time jobs, not training or doing off season stuff, that was almost unheard of back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would have rooted for Len Dawson, but not Joe Namath. Len Dawson did it with class, and Namath did not... there are MANY AFL coaches and players that were great to me, but to canonize him for one game is insane. I don't care if Super Bowl III made the NFL, I still will not feel Namath is worthy of the Hall of Fame. The argument that a player is better is made all the time by people who didn't watch athletes play (Bill James of SABR, for instance, what of him? Pretty sure he never saw Honus Wagner play), and so I discount that totally. Dawson had his chance to beat the NFC. He looked like Jim Kelley in the super bowls he played for the Bills. By the way a guy named Vince Lombardi was a huge fan of Joe Namath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RevWarRifleman Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Couldn't agree more...the week after Christmas 2010, two of my sisters and I drove from Buffalo, to Canton and then, Cleveland, to see the NFL and Rock-n'Roll HOF's. Actually, sisters didn't go to the NFL HOF, I just spent about 8 hours there, by myself...it was awesome....I could have probably spent another day there. Love seeing all the old uniforms, and busted helmets...the place just wreaks of history...I have never made it there for an induction weekend... maybe if Andre ever makes it in. Would be a blast to do that, and then see the Bills in a HOF game... BTW- the classic picture of YA Tittle, bleeding head, collapsed in the endzone, after that loss, is, to me, maybe the greatest sports photo of all time... http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.manlyweb.com/sports/injuries/yatittle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.manlyweb.com/sports/injuries/yatittle-photo.htm&h=689&w=600&sz=59&tbnid=qkUxwf9bKO9NMM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=78&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dya%2Btittle%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=ya+tittle&docid=xjaig51jYkOalM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=y9coT5LVNcuI0QHYlcXgAg&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQ9QEwBg&dur=69 Rock & Roll HOF is pretty awesome, too. I'll be going back to that place at least 12 to 2 more times too. Both HOF places, you have to plasn on being there for several hours because there's so much great stuff. Thanks for posting the Google pic, Buftex. Go Bills! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Dawson had his chance to beat the NFC. He looked like Jim Kelley in the super bowls he played for the Bills. By the way a guy named Vince Lombardi was a huge fan of Joe Namath. He DID beat the NFC (THEN still the NFL, pre-merger)... Super Bowl IV against the Vikings, great game plan. Kobe Bryant's a big fan of LeBron James, so what? That doesn't prove anything... Edited February 1, 2012 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 And this is why I hate Jets fans. They act liek they are some elite franchise when they have been a joke for most of their existence. Granted, I was a little kid at the time but I've at least seen my team play in four SBs. The Jets fans claim to fame is a guy my grandfather's age won the SB 50 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ...If you love pro football & haven't visited the HOF, put it on your MUST DO bucket list! You'll be glad you did. I'll probably be going back yet again at least one other time before my time is done. I think you'll be going back in August to see Andre's induction ceremony. Have a good time! GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 He DID beat the NFC (THEN still the NFL, pre-merger)... Super Bowl IV against the Vikings, great game plan. Kobe Bryant's a big fan of LeBron James, so what? That doesn't prove anything... Your right aboutr Dawson he did get it right against the Vikes that was also a great game and a big reason why he is a HOF guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts