Arizona State (6-6) vs Boise State (11-1)

[DrDawkinstein]

If you have watched Moore, at all, you see he can make all the throws. He is precise and intelligent/intuitive. How deep does a prospect need to be able to throw it before you don't drag out the "arm strength" nonsense. JPL has plenty of arm strength for you.

 

As for the "high school teams" remark--go check their schedule. 7 of their wins were against teams with winning records.

 

lol at "teams with winning records". They played Georgia and TCU. Their ONLY quality opponents. And I give them credit for beating UGA, but their loss to TCU is also telling.

 

Are you saying that the string of games they had to play against:

Toledo

Tulsa

Nevada

Fresno St

Colorado St

Air Force

UNLV....

 

was serious competition? They blew most of those teams out of the water 41-21 57-7, 63-13, etc. Even THEY cant say they are playing real competition.

 

I give the TEAM at Boise credit for beating those teams, as they should. But I dont trust basing individual performances against such weak competition.

 

I watched a bunch of Boise and specifically Moore. I've seen him throw up a number of ducks that would have been considered punts against teams from the Pac-10, Big-12, or SEC.

 

I've already given him credit that he is a smart player. But we need a COMPLETE QB who has the brains AND the arm. Right now we already have a Kellen Moore in Fitz who is smart, but doesnt have the greatest arm.

 

Thease are my opinions based on my observations. You can have yours. We'll see who is right in the long run.

 

Don't bother, he's a fan of the most overrated conference in football where their teams do their best to duck Boise State every year.

 

By ducking Boise St, do you mean opening their year against them like Georgia did?

 

The SEC will stop being "overrated" as soon as another conference wants to get its act together and bring some real competition.

 

And Im not saying the SEC dominates the Big-12, Pac-12, or even Big-10. We're talking about the MOUNTAIN WEST... Boise is moving UP in competition by moving to the Big East. LOL

 

Cmon...

 

And according to reports, who is ducking competition???

Edited December 22, 2011 by DrDareustein

[RyanC883]

Id say the fact that a team that plays mostly high school teams being ranked 7th with 1 loss shows they get plenty of respect.

 

Your issue is just with who accepted invites to a Bowl game.

 

Exactly. Now that they are in the Big East, which is not even a tough conference, lets see if they can win that playing Cincy, L-Ville, UCONN, etc. (not counting Pitt and Syracuse who will be leaving).

[Buffalo Barbarian]

IM ACTUALLY INTERESTED IN BILY WINN ,KINDA curious how he looks real time..

And Shea

 

eh, until there is a playoff at the top tier of college football, I will continue not to watch the pointless, not worth anything in relation to championships, overpaid Corporate Sponsor Bowls.

 

Reality is that Boise has a good program and the BCS penalizes them for their conference which means they can destroy every opponent 70-0 and not be in the national championship game. A 16-32 team playoff system would be appropriate like every other team sport in the NCAA to determine who is best, instead of having a month of pointless games leading up to one meaningful one.

 

Hey its football and its good for scouting.

[Maddog69]

Thanks for the heads up!

 

Ive watched 3 AZ St games this year so I could check out Burfict. So far, Im extremely disappointed. In 3 whole games I did not see him make one big play, let along set the tone or change the game.

 

If the Bills are interested in Kellen Moore (aka Mini-Fitz) then it better be the 5th round or after. I dont ever see him being a better QB than Fitz, and would probably end up backing Fitz up. He's a smart kid that knows how to read defenses, but doesnt have the arm to make deep throws (who does that sound like?).

I love Kellen Moore. I think he would be a great pickup for the Bills in Rd2 or 3. Lwt him learn behind Fitz for a year or two. At worst, I think he becomes a long term backup QB like Reich. At best, he develops into a very good NFL starter. I love his passion for the game. He talked about how he was buying College and NFL playbooks on Ebay when he was 9 so he could study the game. I truly believe he will be successful in the NFL.

[bouds]

Burfict is terrible.

[ieatcrayonz]

lol at "teams with winning records". They played Georgia and TCU. Their ONLY quality opponents. And I give them credit for beating UGA, but their loss to TCU is also telling.

 

Are you saying that the string of games they had to play against:

Toledo

Tulsa

Nevada

Fresno St

Colorado St

Air Force

UNLV....

 

was serious competition? They blew most of those teams out of the water 41-21 57-7, 63-13, etc. Even THEY cant say they are playing real competition.

 

I give the TEAM at Boise credit for beating those teams, as they should. But I dont trust basing individual performances against such weak competition.

 

I watched a bunch of Boise and specifically Moore. I've seen him throw up a number of ducks that would have been considered punts against teams from the Pac-10, Big-12, or SEC.

 

I've already given him credit that he is a smart player. But we need a COMPLETE QB who has the brains AND the arm. Right now we already have a Kellen Moore in Fitz who is smart, but doesnt have the greatest arm.

 

Thease are my opinions based on my observations. You can have yours. We'll see who is right in the long run.

 

 

 

By ducking Boise St, do you mean opening their year against them like Georgia did?

 

The SEC will stop being "overrated" as soon as another conference wants to get its act together and bring some real competition.

 

And Im not saying the SEC dominates the Big-12, Pac-12, or even Big-10. We're talking about the MOUNTAIN WEST... Boise is moving UP in competition by moving to the Big East. LOL

 

Cmon...

 

And according to reports, who is ducking competition???

The win over Georgia is the worst thing that could have happened to Boise. It will only cause more SEC teams to duck them year in and year out. The BCS and NCAA are a joke. They rig the entire process against any team not in the cool kid club. They don't want to give up their license to print money or share it in any way. One missed field goal away from an undefeated season and they are relegated to the Las Vegas Bowl while Alabama has essentially the same thing and they are playing for the title.

 

Joke.

[justnzane]

Hey its football and its good for scouting.

 

Would you go out of your way to watch a CFL, UFL, or AFL game? Most people would say no. Using this logic, why would I care about the Goody's Headache Powders, Jeffrey Dahmer Date Rape Bowl on TBS, when it has a mismatch as bad as the thread title or two barely .500 teams?

[Red Squirrel]

 

And according to reports, who is ducking competition???

 

You're getting one side of the story here. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they asked for the million for just one game, at Nebraska, with no return match. Probably didn't expect anything like that for a home-and-home. The article implies otherwise, but falls far short of coming straight out and saying it. It looked an awful lot like what well-crafted Nebraska propaganda might look like.

 

I'm an ASU fan; I went there in the mid '90s and once saw ASU beat the living daylights out of Boise State. BSU was one of those road-kill schools back then. 5 years later, they turned it around to such an extent that ASU poached their coach (deja vu all over again). That coach, Dirk Koetter, lasted six years in Tempe; he gave a neat little exit interview where he said that from the outside, ASU looked a whole lot more appealing than it was in reality. I wonder if he played that old joke on Dennis Erickson by leaving three envelopes in his desk.

 

About tonight's game: I commented the other day about how negatively I have come to feel about Burfict, and this game certainly backed that up. Moore looked like a 3rd or 4th rounder to me; he makes great decisions, but the arm isn't what NFL scouts want from a high draft pick. Gerell Robinson looked like someone the Bills could use, but I have heard that he doesn't have great stop-watch speed. So that would be a later pick. The BSU RB looked good, but that isn't a position of need for the Bills. The only ASU defender I like is the LB Colin Parker, and he seems like he's a tweener, like Bryan Scott. I'd have more interest in the BSU defensive coaching staff than any of their individual players.

 

ASU's season has been practically a clone of the Bills'. They both got off to great starts and beat a big rival (NE and USC) for the first time in about a decade. They both last won a game the same weekend. They both have been incomprehensibly bad on defense. ASU had a game up in Pullman that if you didn't know better you'd have thought they only had 8 men on the field. The next day, the Bills defense looked just as feckless against the Cowboys. It hasn't been a good two months for me. Also a Mets fan. yay.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Red Squirrel

[Mr. WEO]

lol at "teams with winning records". They played Georgia and TCU. Their ONLY quality opponents. And I give them credit for beating UGA, but their loss to TCU is also telling.

 

was serious competition? They blew most of those teams out of the water 41-21 57-7, 63-13, etc. Even THEY cant say they are playing real competition.

 

I give the TEAM at Boise credit for beating those teams, as they should. But I dont trust basing individual performances against such weak competition.

 

I watched a bunch of Boise and specifically Moore. I've seen him throw up a number of ducks that would have been considered punts against teams from the Pac-10, Big-12, or SEC.

 

 

And according to reports, who is ducking competition???

 

Their loss to TCU was "telling"? Boise lost after Moore lead them on a drive to score in the last 55 seconds when his kicker missed a 39 yard FG. What this "tells" me is that you don;t know what you are talking about and simply repeat things you have read elsewhere.

 

Weak competition? It's all relative I guess. There's AZ, Colorado, Wash St., Oregon St., Ol Miss, Kentucky, Miss State, Vandy, Kansas, Texas Tech, Iowa St. Texas AM---all crappy teams in the Pac10, SEC and Big 12.

[DrDawkinstein]

Their loss to TCU was "telling"? Boise lost after Moore lead them on a drive to score in the last 55 seconds when his kicker missed a 39 yard FG. What this "tells" me is that you don;t know what you are talking about and simply repeat things you have read elsewhere.

 

Weak competition? It's all relative I guess. There's AZ, Colorado, Wash St., Oregon St., Ol Miss, Kentucky, Miss State, Vandy, Kansas, Texas Tech, Iowa St. Texas AM---all crappy teams in the Pac10, SEC and Big 12.

 

It's telling for a team that is fighting the stigma of playing weak competition, that they went 1-1 in their 2 games against respected programs. So let's not crown them until they play a schedule that resembles these other large programs. And Im not talking strictly SEC, there are plenty of very good teams out there with 1, 2 and even 3 losses that don't get a shot at the championship (rightfully so).

 

My original points in this thread, which Ive repeated, are simple:

 

1. Kellen Moore is an extremely intelligent player who can read defenses well, BUT who also has physical limitations. Namely a weaker than desired arm, so-so accuracy on longer passes, and almost no ability to throw a deep bomb. This makes him more of a clone of Fitz, than an upgrade and replacement. That is why I feel we should not use anything higher than a 4th on him. He is not a complete QB.

 

2. Boise St plays a much weaker schedule than most big name, top-ranked programs. Given that weak schedule, I think they get more than enough respect being ranked 7th with 1 loss. 7th is a fair ranking that no one should be unhappy with. There are no conspiracies holding that program back, it's their schedule. Even they have admitted to it by jumping "up" to the Big East.

 

Which of these are you refuting? What are your points?

 

 

 

Of course there are weak teams at the bottom of every conference. But you cant honestly argue that the Mountain West is anywhere near the level of competition found in other MID-LEVEL conferences like the Big East and ACC.

 

That list of teams I posted was Boise's actual schedule, not just the bottom teams of the conference. Conversely to those other conferences, the Mountain West has 1 TOP Team, and then bottom dwellers the rest of the way.

[ieatcrayonz]

It's telling for a team that is fighting the stigma of playing weak competition, that they went 1-1 in their 2 games against respected programs. So let's not crown them until they play a schedule that resembles these other large programs.....

That is where everyone should stop reading your post because the big tough top teams are afraid to let Boise into their clique. They simply will not play Boise. And when Boise plays a team from a top conference like Georgia, they beat them. And then the cycle continues, The fact that they had to play in the LV bowl ought to tell you something. Meanwhile Alabama gets to play for the national title.

 

The BCS teams have rigged the system and are stealing money from ignorant fans. The money is all still there for the taking if Boise is allowed to play, but why add an extra partner to the split when all you have to do to avoid it is keep the system corrupt?

[Mr. WEO]

It's telling for a team that is fighting the stigma of playing weak competition, that they went 1-1 in their 2 games against respected programs. So let's not crown them until they play a schedule that resembles these other large programs. And Im not talking strictly SEC, there are plenty of very good teams out there with 1, 2 and even 3 losses that don't get a shot at the championship (rightfully so).

 

My original points in this thread, which Ive repeated, are simple:

 

1. Kellen Moore is an extremely intelligent player who can read defenses well, BUT who also has physical limitations. Namely a weaker than desired arm, so-so accuracy on longer passes, and almost no ability to throw a deep bomb. This makes him more of a clone of Fitz, than an upgrade and replacement. That is why I feel we should not use anything higher than a 4th on him. He is not a complete QB.

 

2. Boise St plays a much weaker schedule than most big name, top-ranked programs. Given that weak schedule, I think they get more than enough respect being ranked 7th with 1 loss. 7th is a fair ranking that no one should be unhappy with. There are no conspiracies holding that program back, it's their schedule. Even they have admitted to it by jumping "up" to the Big East.

 

Which of these are you refuting? What are your points?

 

 

 

Of course there are weak teams at the bottom of every conference. But you cant honestly argue that the Mountain West is anywhere near the level of competition found in other MID-LEVEL conferences like the Big East and ACC.

 

That list of teams I posted was Boise's actual schedule, not just the bottom teams of the conference. Conversely to those other conferences, the Mountain West has 1 TOP Team, and then bottom dwellers the rest of the way.

 

You said two things. First, Moore threw passes that would be mistaken for punts in the SEC, PAC 10 and The Big 12. This is just silly. Ive seen him play many times and he may not throw the ball 60 yards in the air but so what? Which NFL QB is making a living doing that? That is in no way part of Gailey's offensive game anyway.

 

I think Moore would be a great 4th round pickup--especially with the extra we got for Evans. Why not--the Bills haven't had a 4th round pick payoff since 2003.

 

You also said that the BSU's schedule was filled with high school teams, and that the Mountain West has only one "top team", when they obviously have 2--BSU and TCU. In fact, they have 2 teams that have finished the season in the top 15--same as the Big 12, ACC and one less than the SEC (when BSU and TCU played in their Bowl game last year, they were ranked 4 and 7) The Big East has a total of zero. BSU would have destroyed the Big East this season and last. How can you say that they only have one top team in the MWC?

 

Check out BSU's record against top 25 teams the past 2 years.

[boyst]

You said two things. First, Moore threw passes that would be mistaken for punts in the SEC, PAC 10 and The Big 12. This is just silly. Ive seen him play many times and he may not throw the ball 60 yards in the air but so what? Which NFL QB is making a living doing that? That is in no way part of Gailey's offensive game anyway.

 

I think Moore would be a great 4th round pickup--especially with the extra we got for Evans. Why not--the Bills haven't had a 4th round pick payoff since 2003.

 

You also said that the BSU's schedule was filled with high school teams, and that the Mountain West has only one "top team", when they obviously have 2--BSU and TCU. In fact, they have 2 teams that have finished the season in the top 15--same as the Big 12, ACC and one less than the SEC (when BSU and TCU played in their Bowl game last year, they were ranked 4 and 7) The Big East has a total of zero. BSU would have destroyed the Big East this season and last. How can you say that they only have one top team in the MWC?

 

Check out BSU's record against top 25 teams the past 2 years.

Putting BSU in just the MAC would be more competitive. Playing higher calibre teams week in and week out is a lot different then playing Souix Falls Community College South Campus this week and TCU next week only to have University of Phoenix Online the week after. Ohio this week, Toledo next week, NIU the following - it's not the same. Even in the ACC they would struggle. Maybe this year the ACC is down, but playing Clemson, Virginia, VT, NCSU, UNC, etc - depending on division, would be a lot different. People can argue how the MWC has two top teams but putting up that there is only one more team in the top ten for the SEC is insane! The SEC (I hate the SEC) would make BSU drop two games a year. Having to play the top teams every year, week in and week out takes a toll. You cannot rest your top players the same because you need them every play, every game. You cannot use the shoestring arguement that BSU beat 1 or 2 top teams this year when they don't play same strength of schedule as the SEC or many other conferences.

 

Save me the crap that other teams are not trying to play them! They are trying, there have been several reports out there that teams want to schedule them. There was talk that BSU contact tOSU about a home-away-home series @ Boise but would have to still pay millions to tOSU. tOSU can play a decent school out of the MAC which is a regional game with Toledo, Bowling Green, Kent, Akron, Miami, Ohio, Ball State, etc. Those games are fun and often capable of competing.

[Gordio]

It's telling for a team that is fighting the stigma of playing weak competition, that they went 1-1 in their 2 games against respected programs. So let's not crown them until they play a schedule that resembles these other large programs. And Im not talking strictly SEC, there are plenty of very good teams out there with 1, 2 and even 3 losses that don't get a shot at the championship (rightfully so).

 

My original points in this thread, which Ive repeated, are simple:

 

1. Kellen Moore is an extremely intelligent player who can read defenses well, BUT who also has physical limitations. Namely a weaker than desired arm, so-so accuracy on longer passes, and almost no ability to throw a deep bomb. This makes him more of a clone of Fitz, than an upgrade and replacement. That is why I feel we should not use anything higher than a 4th on him. He is not a complete QB.

 

2. Boise St plays a much weaker schedule than most big name, top-ranked programs. Given that weak schedule, I think they get more than enough respect being ranked 7th with 1 loss. 7th is a fair ranking that no one should be unhappy with. There are no conspiracies holding that program back, it's their schedule. Even they have admitted to it by jumping "up" to the Big East.

 

Which of these are you refuting? What are your points?

 

 

 

Of course there are weak teams at the bottom of every conference. But you cant honestly argue that the Mountain West is anywhere near the level of competition found in other MID-LEVEL conferences like the Big East and ACC.

 

That list of teams I posted was Boise's actual schedule, not just the bottom teams of the conference. Conversely to those other conferences, the Mountain West has 1 TOP Team, and then bottom dwellers the rest of the way.

 

 

Who has Alabama beaten that is any good? They beat Arkansas & lost to LSU. Who else have they beaten? If you go strictly by resumes Oklahoma St should be in the national championship playing LSU, not Alabama. They have played a much tougher schedule. & spare me the SEC crap. Besides Bama, Arkansas, LSU, Georgia(who Boise St drilled in what was a defacto home game for Georgia) the SEC stunk this year. Bama did not even play Georgia this year.

[Mr. WEO]

Putting BSU in just the MAC would be more competitive. Playing higher calibre teams week in and week out is a lot different then playing Souix Falls Community College South Campus this week and TCU next week only to have University of Phoenix Online the week after. Ohio this week, Toledo next week, NIU the following - it's not the same. Even in the ACC they would struggle. Maybe this year the ACC is down, but playing Clemson, Virginia, VT, NCSU, UNC, etc - depending on division, would be a lot different. People can argue how the MWC has two top teams but putting up that there is only one more team in the top ten for the SEC is insane! The SEC (I hate the SEC) would make BSU drop two games a year. Having to play the top teams every year, week in and week out takes a toll. You cannot rest your top players the same because you need them every play, every game. You cannot use the shoestring arguement that BSU beat 1 or 2 top teams this year when they don't play same strength of schedule as the SEC or many other conferences.

 

Save me the crap that other teams are not trying to play them! They are trying, there have been several reports out there that teams want to schedule them. There was talk that BSU contact tOSU about a home-away-home series @ Boise but would have to still pay millions to tOSU. tOSU can play a decent school out of the MAC which is a regional game with Toledo, Bowling Green, Kent, Akron, Miami, Ohio, Ball State, etc. Those games are fun and often capable of competing.

 

BSU has regularly beaten ranked teams. Why do you think they are ranked so highly every year? And why do you have to make up nonsense to supprot your argument. No, the MWC is no the SEC--never said it was. And "tOSU" may find the MAC compeptitive, but BSU has destroyed the MAC teams they have played. Georgia (an SEC team) lost to BSU at home. BSU would have had no problem with the Virginias and the NCSUs of the ACC. And the Big East is a joke.

[boyst]

BSU has regularly beaten ranked teams. Why do you think they are ranked so highly every year? And why do you have to make up nonsense to supprot your argument. No, the MWC is no the SEC--never said it was. And "tOSU" may find the MAC compeptitive, but BSU has destroyed the MAC teams they have played. Georgia (an SEC team) lost to BSU at home. BSU would have had no problem with the Virginias and the NCSUs of the ACC. And the Big East is a joke.

To play those teams in and out, weekly is entirely different. Regularly beaten = once a season they beat two top 25 teams that often fall out of the top 25 as the season goes on and it is realized they were overhyped early? Yeah, that's not too bad. They didn't destroy the MAC teams they've played, they beat them. Toledo is a high octane offensive team but has nothing else.

 

Boise State cannot pretend she is still Cinderella. She has to realize that if she wants to be a big girl and take off the training bra she has to being playing like a team that is legit, pay the small schools to come to play with her, and to hang out with the cliche she might even have to give a little. It is not perfect but it is the way it is and BSU should shut up and realize it...Stop whinning and play.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

8pm ESPN

 

ASU (Current Round and Pick in DraftTek Simulator)

1 16 Vontaze Burfict ILB

5 150 Omar Bolden CB

6 165 Brock Osweiler QB

BOISE

2 36 Billy Winn DE43

3 84 Nate Potter OT

4 106 Kellen Moore QB

5 134 Doug Martin RBF

5 143 Shea McClellin DE43

5 155 George Iloka FS

 

The steals for the Bills here would be Martin and Iloka. Martin is one of 4 running backs in the draft that can actually pick up a block. Iloka is a savvy but hard-hitting player. I like Moore, and he'd be a steal in RD4, but I think he'll start moving up to RD2-3. I don't see the Bills taking a QB in RD 1 or 2. I don't think Burfict is a Bills-type player (he is the antithesis of "don't be dumb, don't be dirty".

 

Martin and Iloka really stood out last night. Burfict better go back to school cuz when you own team won't play you and when they do you get a PF you wont get drafted highly nor stay in the League. Osweiler looked decent maybe a guy to keep an eye on.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Would you go out of your way to watch a CFL, UFL, or AFL game? Most people would say no. Using this logic, why would I care about the Goody's Headache Powders, Jeffrey Dahmer Date Rape Bowl on TBS, when it has a mismatch as bad as the thread title or two barely .500 teams?

If I thought they had talent. I watched some CFL but just don't like the look (rules?) of the game, same for AFL, never seen a UFL televised but if there was nothing else on I'd give it a whirl. And Boise has a bunch of draftable guys which makes it automatically watchable.

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

To play those teams in and out, weekly is entirely different. Regularly beaten = once a season they beat two top 25 teams that often fall out of the top 25 as the season goes on and it is realized they were overhyped early? Yeah, that's not too bad.

 

Obviously we can't have a Boise State thread without YE OLE interjecting (Where ya at Dayman/Nightman?)

 

This season Boise knocked off Georgia, who ended up 10-3 and played in the SEC Title Game.

 

In 2010 Boise knocked off VA Tech, who ended up 11-2 and played in the Orange Bowl

 

In 2009 Boise knocked off Oregon, who ended up 10-2 and played in the Rose Bowl

 

In 2008 Boise won AT Oregon, and that team ended up 9-3 and ranked #15 that year

 

Harkening back to your original statement of "Regularly beaten - once a season they beat top top 25 teams that often fall out of the top 25 as the season goes on and it is realized they were overhyped early" ... you would have to agree is factually incorrect, would you not?

[Astrobot]

Obviously we can't have a Boise State thread without YE OLE interjecting (Where ya at Dayman/Nightman?)

 

This season Boise knocked off Georgia, who ended up 10-3 and played in the SEC Title Game.

 

In 2010 Boise knocked off VA Tech, who ended up 11-2 and played in the Orange Bowl

 

In 2009 Boise knocked off Oregon, who ended up 10-2 and played in the Rose Bowl

 

In 2008 Boise won AT Oregon, and that team ended up 9-3 and ranked #15 that year

Thanks, Ye Ole.

I think Kellen Moore, for example, would make a better NFL QB than Dennis Dixon.