What Happens If They Can't Resign Steve Johnson?

[JPS]

I don't know, you might be going out on a limb on that one.

Stevie Johnson is not a stud receiver. We can point to stuff every year he does to not win games I'm not saying I want him gone. But he's a franchise receiver like Ville Leino is a #1 center. He may just be the perfect Bills player. Does enough to make them competitive, but juuuuust short of making them win. My guess is they overpay for him, pay him blue chip money for good (not great) performance.

 

And if this comes off as slagging Johnson, I'm not. He's one of the Bills most talented players. That's just how bad they are.

[JPS]

i agree. But people need to understand this is not a WR or trench problem. The Bills are 20-30 mill BELOW THE CAP. There is NO REASON they can't sign Steve and fix the problems you mentioned. The only problem is the inability of this team to spend the money.

That's fine. Just don't spend one your top 3 picks on a WR. That's the biggest reason you keep him. He actually IS an NFL player. If you lose him, you have to draft and hope the next guy is....and it may take 3 picks (Parrish, Hardy, Easley). Maybe more. Yeah...sign him I guess. But if a decent FA is available, maybe you let him walk.

[BillsBiker]

Stevie Johnson in a big game is as reliable as Tony Romo in a big game

 

We are rejecting the offer because he sucks

 

good nix!

[ET1062]

...We draft a WR in the 7th round who can actually catch a ball when the game is on the line.

[NoSaint]

If you told me at the start of the year we'd be paying fitz and Stevie a combined 20m next year and Fred led the league in yardage most of the year.... That KW would get a huge extension and we'd reward our RT with a good contract... I would have thought we would have answered a lot more questions than we did. Ugh.

[BADOLBILZ]

Stevie Johnson is not a stud receiver. We can point to stuff every year he does to not win games I'm not saying I want him gone. But he's a franchise receiver like Ville Leino is a #1 center. He may just be the perfect Bills player. Does enough to make them competitive, but juuuuust short of making them win. My guess is they overpay for him, pay him blue chip money for good (not great) performance.

 

And if this comes off as slagging Johnson, I'm not. He's one of the Bills most talented players. That's just how bad they are.

 

If he were a stud receiver many vocal Bills fans wouldn't know it. I'm not trying to turn this into a Bills fan bash because I hate that, but if there is an area that could certainly use improvement it is the evaluation of our own players.

 

When Pat Williams became a FA he was called fat, old and we could lose to the Pittsburgh 3rd stringers without him etc.. All he did was go on to the best years of his career in Minnesota. Pro Bowl performer.

 

When Jason Peters rose to become a top LT....Bills fans were in denial. He sucks, the Pro Bowl is a sham blah blah and the guy just continues to go to Pro Bowls and was second team All Pro last year.

 

Aaron Schobel........same ****.......he wasn't a good pass rusher, got coverage sacks, got garbage sacks yada yada. The man could play. If anything he was unheralded. Imagine if he got to play with a team that scored points and got leads so that he could actually get to rush the passer in pass-only situations.

 

Face it, there is a segment of you guys that blame the better players on this team for it's struggles. The reality is that it's the front office failure to bring ENOUGH of them and quality coaching for them that is the problem. Letting them walk over a few extra million dollars when the team is between $10M and $30M under the cap in any given year is squirrely.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

DD and all who are speculating on a tag:

at this point i'm being told -- and it's noted in the story -- a tag is unlikely.

 

jw

 

They franchise tag him.

JW,

 

Apparently your sources are wrong.

 

 

[NoSaint]

If he were a stud receiver many vocal Bills fans wouldn't know it. I'm not trying to turn this into a Bills fan bash because I hate that, but if there is an area that could certainly use improvement it is the evaluation of our own players.

 

When Pat Williams became a FA he was called fat, old and we could lose to the Pittsburgh 3rd stringers without him etc.. All he did was go on to the best years of his career in Minnesota. Pro Bowl performer.

 

When Jason Peters rose to become a top LT....Bills fans were in denial. He sucks, the Pro Bowl is a sham blah blah and the guy just continues to go to Pro Bowls and was second team All Pro last year.

 

Aaron Schobel........same ****.......he wasn't a good pass rusher, got coverage sacks, got garbage sacks yada yada. The man could play. If anything he was unheralded. Imagine if he got to play with a team that scored points and got leads so that he could actually get to rush the passer in pass-only situations.

 

Face it, there is a segment of you guys that blame the better players on this team for it's struggles. The reality is that it's the front office failure to bring ENOUGH of them and quality coaching for them that is the problem. Letting them walk over a few extra million dollars when the team is between $10M and $30M under the cap in any given year is squirrely.

 

To be fair - no one in their right mind could predict pats longevity. He was the oldest defensive player in the league by the time he slowed down at all. 300+ lbs guys don't hold up like that.

 

Honest question - I havent made it back to a game this year. How many SJ13 jerseys do you see in the stands? Just curious. I would think money coming in off his brand would help close the gap.

[Tcali]

You mean none of you guys are looking forward to Derek Hagan and Donald Jones as our #1/2 WRs next season?

 

If the Bills let Stevie walk, its going to be hard to take anything they do seriously. There's simply no way they can spin it.

i kinda like hagan..he woulda had a monster game sunday of fitzy werent heaving wounded ducks

[Delete This Account]

JW,

 

Apparently your sources are wrong.

well, there i go, pretending to be a journalist and all. when, dagnabit, shall i ever learn.

 

jw

 

To be fair - no one in their right mind could predict pats longevity. He was the oldest defensive player in the league by the time he slowed down at all. 300+ lbs guys don't hold up like that.

 

Honest question - I havent made it back to a game this year. How many SJ13 jerseys do you see in the stands? Just curious. I would think money coming in off his brand would help close the gap.

no offense, NoSaint, but among those of us following the team, there's a pretty strong consensus that failing to re-sign Pat Williams was one of the team's most disappointing decisions of last decade (not including draft). perhaps no one could have foresaw him going as long as he did, but his presence in the middle -- and the one-two punch he provided with Big Ted and then with Sam Adams -- was something the Bills had failed to replace up until, well, drafting Dareus.

 

jw

[Tcali]

If he were a stud receiver many vocal Bills fans wouldn't know it. I'm not trying to turn this into a Bills fan bash because I hate that, but if there is an area that could certainly use improvement it is the evaluation of our own players.

 

When Pat Williams became a FA he was called fat, old and we could lose to the Pittsburgh 3rd stringers without him etc.. All he did was go on to the best years of his career in Minnesota. Pro Bowl performer.

 

When Jason Peters rose to become a top LT....Bills fans were in denial. He sucks, the Pro Bowl is a sham blah blah and the guy just continues to go to Pro Bowls and was second team All Pro last year.

 

Aaron Schobel........same ****.......he wasn't a good pass rusher, got coverage sacks, got garbage sacks yada yada. The man could play. If anything he was unheralded. Imagine if he got to play with a team that scored points and got leads so that he could actually get to rush the passer in pass-only situations.

 

Face it, there is a segment of you guys that blame the better players on this team for it's struggles. The reality is that it's the front office failure to bring ENOUGH of them and quality coaching for them that is the problem. Letting them walk over a few extra million dollars when the team is between $10M and $30M under the cap in any given year is squirrely.

schobel?/ i think a lot of us saw a guy who spent a lot of time in a game being a non-factor. yes he was better than anything the bills have now-fairly good against the run . fat pat was one of those guys who played very well into his late 30s--rare. with Jason peters it was assumed that the Bills would spend that money on a more consistent guy. he was awful in buffalo the last year -and the year before that he had faded.Of course the Bills would be better with him because as usual they didnt replace him with anyone decent. As you say-we make cap space and then dont fill it.

[NoSaint]

well, there i go, pretending to be a journalist and all. when, dagnabit, shall i ever learn.

 

jw

 

 

no offense, NoSaint, but among those of us following the team, there's a pretty strong consensus that failing to re-sign Pat Williams was one of the team's most disappointing decisions of last decade (not including draft). perhaps no one could have foresaw him going as long as he did, but his presence in the middle -- and the one-two punch he provided with Big Ted and then with Sam Adams -- was something the Bills had failed to replace up until, well, drafting Dareus.

 

jw

 

I agree he would have been great to have, but mainly my point was in hindsight it looks much much worse than it did at the time. we needed that big body mauler in the middle but who was the last 36 year old probowler that had a body that big at just about any position. He proved to be a rare specimen.

 

Letting him walk at 33 should have been a short term pain. A guy we were going to need to replace shortly anyway. Our decade of poor choices coupled with the miracle of his body holding out to play at a high level until 38 years old should not have been a part of any foresight.

[jr1]

Haganmania

[BADOLBILZ]

I agree he would have been great to have, but mainly my point was in hindsight it looks much much worse than it did at the time. we needed that big body mauler in the middle but who was the last 36 year old probowler that had a body that big at just about any position. He proved to be a rare specimen.

 

Letting him walk at 33 should have been a short term pain. A guy we were going to need to replace shortly anyway. Our decade of poor choices coupled with the miracle of his body holding out to play at a high level until 38 years old should not have been a part of any foresight.

 

 

They let him walk when they had no replacement, had just missed the playoffs by one game and were planning to start a rookie QB. The sum of the foresight was "he is getting old we aren't going to pay him even if it breaks up our turnaround formula of strong defense and a committment to the running game".

 

If there is one common thread it is that the Bills let these players go when they have nobody in line to replace them. That's going to happen to every team occasionally but it is an epidemic at OBD.

 

There is a perception that they are replacing those guys with first round picks. The reality is that they went from a defense that was among the leagues best to one of the worst. Their offense has no more talent than it had then. The quality of football has been like that of a 4 win team for 6 years now.

 

I think they are making some strides on the field, they need to maintain what they have.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Dick Drawn

[CodeMonkey]

Top 5 money, no way. However, the AP story references his position as middle of the pack type money for a #1 receiver. I think he's a middle of the pack, or slightly above, receiver so let's get this thing behind us and go forward filling the holes we presently have, not create new ones.

He is more like a middle of the pack #2, or slightly above, receiver in my opinion.

There has to be better receivers out there that can be hired for 9 mil.

I hope both sides come to a deal and he stays in Buffalo, but I don't blame Nix in this case for wanting to pay him what he deserves.

Edited December 15, 2011 by CodeMonkey

[agardin]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e4d644/article/potential-franchisetag-numbers-highlighted-by-increase-for-dts

 

Last years franchise tag numbers, average of top 3 WRs in the league, was at 11.5 million for this season. I would image it goes up from here, I like Johnson and I would like to resign him but you cant pay him the franchise number. Just because he is the the best on the Bills and he has some leverage doesn't mean you pay him as a top 3. Even for one year. I would pay him in the 7 million a year mark which sounds like what the Bills stance is. Good player, far from dominant. The only caveat is that the Bills likely have to overpay to lure a replacement player so the cost to replace Johnson with someone of equal skill might be higher.

 

Here is the list of potential WR free agents.

 

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2012/fa/wr.html

[mjt328]

This is what makes me mad when fans comment about Steve Johnson (or Lee Evans for that matter).

 

What makes a receiver a #1 or a #2?

 

 

Some receivers are fast. Some are big and tall. Some are good route runners. Some are small and shifty.

Why do we try to determine a receiver's worth based on some arbitrary number that doesn't mean anything?

Why can't we just recognize that a player has talent - and if we let that talent leave without replacing him with someone better - we are getting WORSE as a team.

 

 

A lot of Bills fans determined that Lee Evans wasn't a #1 receiver, because he was one dimensional as a deep threat. Never mind that he was one of the best deep threats in the game. Evans was the same kind of receiver as someone like Mike Wallace, Desean Jackson or Greg Jennings. He wasn't the kind of guy that put up 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns every season. But he still had value by stretching defenses and opening up passing lanes underneath.

And... as it turns out, our offense has really missed having a deep threat on the field.

 

 

Now, for Steve Johnson. We all know that he's not in the talent level of someone like Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald.

But he is one of the best route runners in the game, and has been the only receiver in the NFL this year to get the best of Darrelle Revis (who we happen to play twice a year).

Johnson is only in his second year as a starter and there is every reason to believe that he will get better (especially if the Bills can add a more accurate QB).

 

 

If we let him go, that leaves us four options:

 

1) Replace him with someone currently on the roster like David Nelson or Naaman Roosevelt. This would make our offense significantly worse.

 

2) Replace him with a top free agent receiver like Dwayne Bowe, Vincent Jackson or Marques Colston. These guys will probably cost more than Johnson, so why not just keep Stevie?

 

3) Replace him with a lower free agent receiver like Robert Meachem or Pierre Garcon. This also would make our offense significantly worse.

 

4) Replace him with a draft pick. A rookie (even someone like Justin Blackmon) would probably take 2-3 years to develop, assuming he doesn't completely bust. That is just in time for them to hit free agency too and keep the endless cycle turning.

[Dopey]

He is, without a doubt, the #1 WR on the Bills, and I can't think of a team who has a worse #2 paired with their #1 WR than the Bills do (and I like Nelson). He is the WR that gets all the attention. Also, he and Fitz seem to have great chemistry.

 

And by the way, did you see what he did to Revis, most experts' best cornerback? He absolutely torched him. He is the second best player on the offense, behind Freddy, and I'm scared to imagine the dropoff in production for this offense without him.

 

And why, on this board of all places, where every other post seems to be a "Ralph is cheap" post, would anyone care how much he is paid? The Bills have the cap room. Its not our money. And contracts aren't guaranteed, so he can be cut at anytime. This isn't the NBA where one overpay will kill you.

 

To me, SJ is a must sign. Franchise him if need be.

 

And why, on this board of all places, where every other post seems to be a "Ralph is cheap" post, would anyone care how much he is paid?

[Billy in 4C]

If the plan it to stick with Fitz, then you HAVE to sign Stevie, and add another WR and OL depth. Without him, we are looking at 3-4 wins next year tops.

 

If you were looking to buy a jersey, who would you be compelled to buy? Freddie (possibly gone in one year), Stevie (probably gone in 3 games), Fitz (nope). The only above average player I can think of that will absolutely be on the team in 3 years is Dareus. That's sad.

[Armchair GM]

Apparently Nix has rejected Steve Johnson's last contract proposal. What happens if we don't sign this guy. That puts us in a situation where we will need two starting WR next year along with major starters needed at LB, DE and at CB. Not to mention that they seriously need more depth at almost every position. If they don't fill some needs during free agency and resign some of there key players, this team is two or three drafts from contending.

 

Gailey says they need 10-12 starters and they may need a few more if they don't sign some of their key free agents. Then you couple that with the fact the Cuomo won't commit any money to improving the stadium and this team looks done.

 

Three straight blacked out home games this year along with two or three years more of rebuilding. More black out games to occur in the next two years based on this lousy product and this team looks primed for a move to Toronto or LA.

 

Either which way we need to make a play for Bowe or Meachum in FA. Stevie walks, go after both. SJ13 & Bowe are similar go and get it type WR's, and Meachum provides a legit deep threat. I'm not really buying into avoiding FA as much as Nix likes to do. There is value there! I agree that you build through the draft, but there IS A NEED to supplement the draft with quality FA acquisitions. Not sure how much of it is pride, but I think Nix needs a grain of humility. Don't get me wrong, I like the guy and I BILLIEVE he's done a pretty good job so far...we'll see.

 

All of that said, I think SJ13, immaturity and all, should be a priority. The kid's got something that most other WR's don't. He's young and still needs a little coaching and time to develop...not much, but a good kick in the pants will do him right. Here's to hoping they reach an agreement.