Von Miller

[Zulu Cthulhu]

I suppose at first glance, without seeing a minute of either one play, you could make comparisons between Miller and Maybin. But Miller was a much, much better player than Maybin in college, and it's not even close.

 

Miller understood football coming into the NFL, and his tackling and run pursuit are getting better by the week. He's simply far smarter and far stronger than Maybin, despite the similar weight.

 

There are many all-pro and pro bowl OLBs playing around 240-250 lbs (see Harrison, James). Miller is only the latest one.

 

It was a bad comparison back then, pre-draft, and it's a downright ridiculous one today.

[BADOLBILZ]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL? So many people ranting: "he gets manhandled by college TEs, the NFL tackles will eat him alive". well, you're wrong. I love Dareus. I'm glad we have him. I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'd rather have Miller. Having a PREMIER pass rusher is so important in today's game and Miller IS a premier pass rusher. Dareus will be a dominant player for years to come and will hopefully anchor our defense for his entire career, but until we get premier pass rusher, our defense will continue to struggle (even after Edwards is axed). This isn't an anti Dareus post, he's the best player on our roster (fred ex may have something to say about that), but a hail Von Miller post. The guy is an absolute monster. 9 tackles 1 sack (maybe 1.5) a FF. The sack pretty much ended the game. 9 or 10 sacks on the season, only 2 games in which he hasn't gotten to the qb. He's not a Bill, but I'm a fan. Lets hope he doesn't end fitz in a couple weeks.

 

For once the Bills actually took a player that actually warranted that selection in Dareus. Keep in mind that Dareus is effectively just replacing the production of a pro bowl DT in Kyle Williams....so it's no surprise that his impact has been muted in relation to a guy like Von Miller who was replacing virtually nothing.

 

However, if we are lamenting near misses in the 2011 draft.......it's Cam Newton and Cam Newton only.

 

Miller is excellent but he's still just a defender. With all due respect to Bruce, LT and Reggie, there isn't a pass rusher who will ever make the impact of a great QB like Brady or Manning.

[shoretalk]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL? So many people ranting: "he gets manhandled by college TEs, the NFL tackles will eat him alive". well, you're wrong. I love Dareus. I'm glad we have him. I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'd rather have Miller. Having a PREMIER pass rusher is so important in today's game and Miller IS a premier pass rusher. Dareus will be a dominant player for years to come and will hopefully anchor our defense for his entire career, but until we get premier pass rusher, our defense will continue to struggle (even after Edwards is axed). This isn't an anti Dareus post, he's the best player on our roster (fred ex may have something to say about that), but a hail Von Miller post. The guy is an absolute monster. 9 tackles 1 sack (maybe 1.5) a FF. The sack pretty much ended the game. 9 or 10 sacks on the season, only 2 games in which he hasn't gotten to the qb. He's not a Bill, but I'm a fan. Lets hope he doesn't end fitz in a couple weeks.

I will place myself in the group that was soooooooo wrong about Miller. Watching him last night had me thinking of all my comments about hoping that Denver would pick him because I didn't think he'd be a great pro ... I was wrong but I won't be trading my Dareus' jersey in either. I think both of these guys will be travelling to some Pro Bowls together.

 

But, I will admit when I was wrong and this time I was soooooooooooooooo wrong.

 

Go BILLS ... and Go Bronco's (until they play the Bills).

[truth on hold]

Grading myself I was wrong about newton. Thought there were too many red flags. I thought miller deserved his draft position. With bills at number 3 I would have been satisfied with dareus, Peterson or green, with a slight preference for peterson.

[NewEra]

Dr D.....while we exchanged lots of debate over the success of Miller, you usually came around to saying "I'm not saying miller is going to Maybin, I'm saying that he isn't what we need on this team". I do remember your thoughts on this subject. And I agreed, that We needed to get bigger and stronger up front to stop the run. Theres no denying that. Adding a pass rusher was needed, but until we could stop the run, no one would pass against us. Dareus has been a monster for us and while Kyle and Merriman were healthy, our run D was MUCH better. I love Dareus, I'm glad we have him. now we're in the opposite position as last year. Our pass d looks to be the worst in football. Maybe not statistically, but it's downright horrid. Maybe it's our scheme and our dc (yeah he's bad). Maybe that was one of the reasons teams ran at will on us last year. Our DC. Sorry to get off the subject, I hate Edwards with a passion.I won't mention any names here, you know who you are. Many of you have admitted you were wrong. It was just painful to read so many people saying Miller was too weak and too small to excel when it was obvious (to me and some others) that his play on the field wasn't indicative of some who was weak. Every LB in the league gets overwhelmed by the OL at times. It's part of the game. People were saying he looks and plays like a safety. People were saying that he can't play because Vincent Jackson is so much bigger than him in a photo. People said he was stiff (lol, stiff?? Are you kidding me, the guy is on another level athletically). I'm sure the predraft anti miller crew said some stupid things because then debating got heated and started pulling stuff out of their arses. But some ofnthe things being said were just ridiculous. One person even said he thinks miller was a THIRD round pick!!! This thread was strictly to discuss Von miller and how some people were convinced that we wasnt worth the #3 pick. I did say I'd rather have miller over Dareus in the OP. I would, but that's not the topic I was trying to discuss with everyone. Since it was brought up as the topic ofnthe post,, personally, I'd rather have Derrick Thomas than Jerome Brown. Just my opinion. Today's league, the teams are winning by passing the ball, not running the ball. Sure there are exceptions, but a premier pass rusher is public enemy #1 and Von miller is just that. His play vs the run has improved steadily and last night, he was dominant vs the run and the pass. A true difference maker that every OC has to game plan for or get your qb killed. Minus the game vs Washington, Von miller has almost double the sacks of our entire team.Cam newton is been discussed in this thread. I stated I wanted him more than anyone in the draft. In retrospect, I feel the same. Yes, his team is losing. They suck. It's not his fault they suck. He's the best rookie qb I've seen to date. Andy Dalton is good, but if cam newton was playing on a team that had cincis defense, he'd be winning too. Both have bright futures. It's moot because he's not a bill and we never had a chance to draft him, so save it. We didn't get an OLb last year, I'm praying there's one available When we pick this year that can be 1/2 the pass rusher Von miller is. We NEED one. I don't think Moats is the answer. Batten isnt a good player. Merriman will likely never be healthy. I don't think we have one good OLB on our team. When Kyle is healthy, I think our run d is almost fixed. But now our pass d is COMPLETELY broken. And that's with 2 good safeties and a couple decent CBs. We need pass rush this year, just as we needed run stoppers last year. Its THAT bad. thanks for chiming in everyone. Nice thread :)In before someone says Dareus is a monster: Dareus is a monster, I love him.

 

Sorry about the wall of text. I made paragraphs, but my iPad won't allow them for some reason . I don't blame you if you don't read it. Sigh

[CardinalScotts]

I like the entire denver defense, D-line is good LB's are okay secondary is solid and the coaching is tremendous

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL? So many people ranting: "he gets manhandled by college TEs, the NFL tackles will eat him alive". well, you're wrong. I love Dareus. I'm glad we have him. I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'd rather have Miller. Having a PREMIER pass rusher is so important in today's game and Miller IS a premier pass rusher. Dareus will be a dominant player for years to come and will hopefully anchor our defense for his entire career, but until we get premier pass rusher, our defense will continue to struggle (even after Edwards is axed). This isn't an anti Dareus post, he's the best player on our roster (fred ex may have something to say about that), but a hail Von Miller post. The guy is an absolute monster. 9 tackles 1 sack (maybe 1.5) a FF. The sack pretty much ended the game. 9 or 10 sacks on the season, only 2 games in which he hasn't gotten to the qb. He's not a Bill, but I'm a fan. Lets hope he doesn't end fitz in a couple weeks.

Guilty, I though he would suck cuz he did in college. His coaches must be maximizing his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses, something I wish DC Edwards should do.

[truth on hold]

6'3" 245 is plenty big. Even if he really plays 10 lbs less that's still plenty.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/13976/von-miller

 

How big do you all think the best OLB in history was? Lawrence Taylor listed at 6'3" 237

 

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/T/TaylLa00.htm?mobile=false

[Ozymandius]

Guilty, I though he would suck cuz he did in college.

 

lol

[K-9]

Guilty, I though he would suck cuz he did in college. His coaches must be maximizing his strengths and minimizing his weaknesses, something I wish DC Edwards should do.

 

Huh?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[DrDawkinstein]

Wait a minute, Dr. Are you saying you didn't even watch the game last night? You would have seen how Miller amassed these stats and he maybe would have passed your eye test.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Unfortunately, I did not catch much of the Thursday night game. I have watched a few other Denver games (due to the Tebow hype) and I was just going off what I saw in those games. If the light has finally come on, then good for Von. I love watching great LBs in the league. If he continues to excel, I hope we come up with a way to stop him come Christmas eve!

 

Dr D.....while we exchanged lots of debate over the success of Miller, you usually came around to saying "I'm not saying miller is going to Maybin, I'm saying that he isn't what we need on this team". I do remember your thoughts on this subject. And I agreed, that We needed to get bigger and stronger up front to stop the run. Theres no denying that. Adding a pass rusher was needed, but until we could stop the run, no one would pass against us. Dareus has been a monster for us and while Kyle and Merriman were healthy, our run D was MUCH better. I love Dareus, I'm glad we have him. now we're in the opposite position as last year. Our pass d looks to be the worst in football. Maybe not statistically, but it's downright horrid. Maybe it's our scheme and our dc (yeah he's bad). Maybe that was one of the reasons teams ran at will on us last year. Our DC. Sorry to get off the subject, I hate Edwards with a passion.I won't mention any names here, you know who you are. Many of you have admitted you were wrong. It was just painful to read so many people saying Miller was too weak and too small to excel when it was obvious (to me and some others) that his play on the field wasn't indicative of some who was weak. Every LB in the league gets overwhelmed by the OL at times. It's part of the game. People were saying he looks and plays like a safety. People were saying that he can't play because Vincent Jackson is so much bigger than him in a photo. People said he was stiff (lol, stiff?? Are you kidding me, the guy is on another level athletically). I'm sure the predraft anti miller crew said some stupid things because then debating got heated and started pulling stuff out of their arses. But some ofnthe things being said were just ridiculous. One person even said he thinks miller was a THIRD round pick!!! This thread was strictly to discuss Von miller and how some people were convinced that we wasnt worth the #3 pick. I did say I'd rather have miller over Dareus in the OP. I would, but that's not the topic I was trying to discuss with everyone. Since it was brought up as the topic ofnthe post,, personally, I'd rather have Derrick Thomas than Jerome Brown. Just my opinion. Today's league, the teams are winning by passing the ball, not running the ball. Sure there are exceptions, but a premier pass rusher is public enemy #1 and Von miller is just that. His play vs the run has improved steadily and last night, he was dominant vs the run and the pass. A true difference maker that every OC has to game plan for or get your qb killed. Minus the game vs Washington, Von miller has almost double the sacks of our entire team.Cam newton is been discussed in this thread. I stated I wanted him more than anyone in the draft. In retrospect, I feel the same. Yes, his team is losing. They suck. It's not his fault they suck. He's the best rookie qb I've seen to date. Andy Dalton is good, but if cam newton was playing on a team that had cincis defense, he'd be winning too. Both have bright futures. It's moot because he's not a bill and we never had a chance to draft him, so save it. We didn't get an OLb last year, I'm praying there's one available When we pick this year that can be 1/2 the pass rusher Von miller is. We NEED one. I don't think Moats is the answer. Batten isnt a good player. Merriman will likely never be healthy. I don't think we have one good OLB on our team. When Kyle is healthy, I think our run d is almost fixed. But now our pass d is COMPLETELY broken. And that's with 2 good safeties and a couple decent CBs. We need pass rush this year, just as we needed run stoppers last year. Its THAT bad. thanks for chiming in everyone. Nice thread :)In before someone says Dareus is a monster: Dareus is a monster, I love him.

 

Sorry about the wall of text. I made paragraphs, but my iPad won't allow them for some reason . I don't blame you if you don't read it. Sigh

 

Thanks for taking the time to understand the basis of my argument.

 

I agree with a lot of what you say here (especially the Edwards part). And I agree that our Pass D is broken.

 

But we simply had to fix the Run D, and get bigger along the line first and foremost. It's the simple formula of how you build any team. And it's no secret that the Bills ignored the seriously addressing the lines for over a decade.

 

It's a passing league, but you win games in the trenches, and can control games with the run. Teams were simply controlling us, and that had to stop. It's not 100% fixed, but it's much better. Especially when we're healthy.

 

This was season 2 of a complete franchise rebuild. I'm confident that Buddy will address the pass rush this year.

 

I'll close by admitting that Miller has proven me wrong when I said he wasn't worth a top-10 pick. And I wont bother mentioning how right I was about Newton (or did I just do that? lol)

Edited November 19, 2011 by DrDareustein

[Astrobot]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL? So many people ranting: "he gets manhandled by college TEs, the NFL tackles will eat him alive". well, you're wrong. I love Dareus. I'm glad we have him. I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'd rather have Miller. Having a PREMIER pass rusher is so important in today's game and Miller IS a premier pass rusher. Dareus will be a dominant player for years to come and will hopefully anchor our defense for his entire career, but until we get premier pass rusher, our defense will continue to struggle (even after Edwards is axed). This isn't an anti Dareus post, he's the best player on our roster (fred ex may have something to say about that), but a hail Von Miller post. The guy is an absolute monster. 9 tackles 1 sack (maybe 1.5) a FF. The sack pretty much ended the game. 9 or 10 sacks on the season, only 2 games in which he hasn't gotten to the qb. He's not a Bill, but I'm a fan. Lets hope he doesn't end fitz in a couple weeks.

Put it this way. I'd rather have Dareus then Jenkins/Upshaw in successive years than Von Miller/Crick or Still or Ta'amu.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Though the point is moot, there is a good chance the Bills would not have taken Miller if he was available at #3. The Bills were focused on fixing their run defense first and foremost, which would put some blinders on at the very least to a guy seen mostly as a pass rusher. Furthermore, Nix was settled at OLB will Merriman and Kelsay and the depth they had.

 

Besides, he was busy talking Ralph out of spending money.

[NewEra]

<br />Put it this way. I'd rather have Dareus then Jenkins/Upshaw in successive years than Von Miller/Crick or Still or Ta'amu.<br />

. I agree. Let's hope we can land upshaw or Jenkins. Both have the size (265) that buddy wants for an OLB. I'd prefer upshaw, where is predicted to go at this point? You're info is always appreciated.

[Mr_Blizzard]

Where are the guys that were saying Von Miller is too small and weak to be effective in the NFL? So many people ranting: "he gets manhandled by college TEs, the NFL tackles will eat him alive". well, you're wrong. I love Dareus. I'm glad we have him. I'm gonna get crucified for this, but I'd rather have Miller. Having a PREMIER pass rusher is so important in today's game and Miller IS a premier pass rusher. Dareus will be a dominant player for years to come and will hopefully anchor our defense for his entire career, but until we get premier pass rusher, our defense will continue to struggle (even after Edwards is axed). This isn't an anti Dareus post, he's the best player on our roster (fred ex may have something to say about that), but a hail Von Miller post. The guy is an absolute monster. 9 tackles 1 sack (maybe 1.5) a FF. The sack pretty much ended the game. 9 or 10 sacks on the season, only 2 games in which he hasn't gotten to the qb. He's not a Bill, but I'm a fan. Lets hope he doesn't end fitz in a couple weeks.

 

I'd rather have Dareus. Anybody who thinks about where the Bills were prior to this past draft knew it wasn't going to be a one-year rebuilding project. Buffalo would have needed an extra pick in each round. (probably 2 extra's in rounds one and two!)

 

Dareus was the best choice for us in 2011. We need to be able to stop the run and we are getting better at it. Hopefully this off-season and draft, we can finish rebuiling the defensive front seven, and find some offensive help for Fitz.

 

(and can I just add that I love my current avatar??)

Edited November 19, 2011 by Mr_Blizzard

[Astrobot]

. I agree. Let's hope we can land upshaw or Jenkins. Both have the size (265) that buddy wants for an OLB. I'd prefer upshaw, where is predicted to go at this point? You're info is always appreciated.

http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1_17-32.asp

Scroll down to Pick 25 and read my comments.

[NewEra]

<br />Unfortunately, I did not catch much of the Thursday night game. I have watched a few other Denver games (due to the Tebow hype) and I was just going off what I saw in those games. If the light has finally come on, then good for Von. I love watching great LBs in the league. If he continues to excel, I hope we come up with a way to stop him come Christmas eve!<br /><br /><br /><br />Thanks for taking the time to understand the basis of my argument. <br /><br />I agree with a lot of what you say here (especially the Edwards part). And I agree that our Pass D is broken. <br /><br />But we simply <b>had</b> to fix the Run D, and get bigger along the line first and foremost. It's the simple formula of how you build any team. And it's no secret that the Bills ignored the seriously addressing the lines for over a decade.<br /><br />It's a passing league, but you win games in the trenches, and can control games with the run. Teams were simply controlling us, and that had to stop. It's not 100% fixed, but it's much better. Especially when we're healthy.<br /><br />This was season 2 of a complete franchis rebuild. I'm confident that Buddy will address the pass rush this year.<br /><br />I'll close by admitting that Miller has proven me wrong when I said he wasn't worth a top-10 pick. And I wont bother mentioning how right I was about Newton (or did I just do that? lol)  <img src='http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

thanks for reading through my wall of text. After watching last year, i agree, we NEEDED to address the run defense. After watching our pass d this year, it's just as big of a problem as the run d was last year. While our run d has been exposed a bit again this year, it's been since williams and Merriman went out. The return of Williams will improve it. I hope chan keeps Marcel in the middle and moves kyle to DE and see how it works. Or even go back to the 4-3, where a line of edwards, Dareus, Williams and carrington would be beast vs the run. Add kelsey, johnson and Merriman (if healthy, he'd make a better 4-3 de than 4-3 OLB at this point) it could be special rotating and keeping everyone fresh. Maybe even throw moats out there as a pass rushing DE on 3rd and long. Drafting 2 OLBs in the draft is a must. I'd be happy if we drafted 3, as I don't think any of our guys are going to amount to anything other that backups. Yes, even moats. If upshaw or Jenkins are there, we're in luck. Astro, what are you're thoughts on Burfict and Zach brown. Burfict a MLb, but could he transition to OLb? Fierce hitter seems like he'd love the chance to tee off, but does he have any pass rushing moves? Brown is "undersized" as some say at 240. Hes a system guy, but can he be a system guy in buffalo? Hard to say, considering we'll have a new dc next year. I pray it's not the stache. Never been a fan.

 

<br /><a href='http://www.drafttek.com/CMDRound1_17-32.asp' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.drafttek....ound1_17-32.asp</a><br />Scroll down to Pick 25 and read my comments.  <img src='http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/public/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /><br />

. Awesome. And he's added 2 sacks since. He's balling, I hope he doesn't ball himself out of our range. We won't be picking 25, sadly enough. So hopefully he'll be there.

 

<br />I'd rather have Dareus. Anybody who thinks about where the Bills were prior to this past draft knew it wasn't going to be a one-year rebuilding project. Buffalo would have needed an extra pick in each round. (probably 2 extra's in rounds one and two!)<br /><br />Dareus was the best choice for us in 2011. We need to be able to stop the run and we are getting better at it. Hopefully this off-season and draft, we can finish rebuiling the defensive front seven, and find some offensive help for Fitz.<br /><br /><font size="1">(and can I just add that I love my current avatar??)</font><br />

. And now that we can stop the run a bit better, teams are showing us how BAD our pass d is. It's a catch 22. If we played the packers, Aaron Rodgers would go 30-31 400+ vs our pass d. The one incompletion would be a ball off Dareus head. Early on, I hate to say it, but we got lucky forcing so many turnovers. Now we aren't getting the TOs and teams are passing all over us, and it's almost as embarrassing as how we got ran over last year. Our defense made mark sanchez look like a great QB.... And he's really bad.

 

Dareus may be the best choice for us, as long as we can hit on a great OLB this year. If we miss again, we'll still be without ONE player that can get after the QB. Moats, is inconsistent. He's not that guy at this point. Not even close.

[Astrobot]

Astro, what are you're thoughts on Burfict and Zach brown. Burfict a MLb, but could he transition to OLb? Fierce hitter seems like he'd love the chance to tee off, but does he have any pass rushing moves? Brown is "undersized" as some say at 240. Hes a system guy, but can he be a system guy in buffalo? Hard to say, considering we'll have a new dc next year. I pray it's not the stache. Never been a fan.

 

I could see Burfict outside. Burfict will go right around #17 in RD1 (slated with Philly in the latest DraftTek mock). He's a wild card of a personality, who has really fast closing speed. However, he's had penalties for head-butts, taunting, unsportsmanlike, hitting Marecic helmet to helmet, going after Barkley's knee, etc. He has ignored his coach and refused to come out of the game. Great coverage, great pass rusher, great instincts and muthah hits. But his disregard for the smart play goes against "don't be dumb, don't be dirty."

 

I like Zach Brown (NC OLB). We have him going #16 a lot. Closes quickly, seals the outside well, piles on. He's more of a 4-3 LB. I'd like to see him diagnose a bit faster, cover closer on receivers obviously in his zone, and add some weight without sacrificing his best asset, speed. If I had to take a NC linebacker, I'd take Hightower.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Astrobot

[NewEra]

Hightower? He's an Alabama LB and strictly plays the inside from what I've seen. If Burfict goes around 17, we'll have a shot. I'm not a fan of his mindset all the time, but we NEED some more nastiness on this D. I'd love to draft him and play him on the outside. His speed and cover skills to go with a solid pass rush would fit perfect....minus the personal fouls. But if he can get 10+ sacks, cover TEs and Rbs, while laying out some big hits, I won't mind a couple penalties.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Burfict to Philly as an OLB?

 

They are heavily invested in edge rushers with Cole, Babin, and Graham.