Ozymandius Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This person got a lot of crap. How the Bills finish will determine whether he's vindicated or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I'll go along with this. The Bills had a -2 turnover differential against the Giants, and yet came very close to winning. That means there were both positives and negatives. I also agree with BmoreBills' comment about the need for game analysis, and his implication that the Bills are still an average team which will tease you at times. I'd put the defense in the negative category: it's one of the worst in the league in terms of yards. It also does a lousy job of preventing points from being scored. Until recently it made up for that with tons of turnovers. But as has been pointed out in this thread, that pace of turnover generation was unsustainable, and was not sustained against the Giants. On the credit side of the ledger I'd put anything RB-related, the Bills' WR corps (more or less), the TE and FB, and (sort of) Fitz. Also the OL isn't as bad as many feared it would be. While Fitz is a good fit for what Gailey wants to do with the Bills' offense, those who feel he's at or near the level of Rodgers, Brees, or other top tier QBs are badly mistaken. The offense needs a first round QB and a second round OL to take the next step forward. In order to become decent, the defense probably needs another defense-oriented draft. Between offense and defense, the Bills are probably two drafts away from becoming a serious threat to go to the Super Bowl. (This assumes that everything goes well, and--most importantly--that they're able to obtain a franchise QB in the next two drafts.) In the meantime, the Bills will still be an entertaining team to watch, and will fight hard every week. I intend to enjoy the ride, but not to expect too much. Great post, in retrospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Great post, in retrospect. And typical homer-laden, ignorant responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I'll go along with this. The Bills had a -2 turnover differential against the Giants, and yet came very close to winning. That means there were both positives and negatives. I also agree with BmoreBills' comment about the need for game analysis, and his implication that the Bills are still an average team which will tease you at times. Unfortunately I was spot on with the observation that when the turnovers dried up, we'd be exposed. The game against the Chargers should be another one of those nightmare games because of the talent they have, regardless of current record. I could not have predicted the injuries we have sustained, which makes it worse. It is very difficult to be realistic here for many, but hopefully now we can beat the Dolphins, Titans and Broncos to at least get us to 9-7. Any other victory is a huge plus in my book (Chargers, Jets, Patriots). Edited November 15, 2011 by BmoreBills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Great post, in retrospect. Unfortunately, true. The Bills defensive rebuild is stuck in the mud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 And typical homer-laden, ignorant responses. They waited one whole week to start a hilariously funny "10 sacks isn't sustainable" thread after the Redskin game. Of course no such brilliant mocking thread since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deep2evans Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 this thread brings the LOLs and is a perfect microcosm for bills fans. guy says something brutally honest, and gets ripped apart because people just don't want to see the truth. turns out he was on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Thread of the year. Even at 4-1, I knew the defense was garbage.. I just didn't think the offense would tail off like it has. Fitz has gone back to his old ways of throwing a million interceptions w/ a lot of "WTF" throws. After the collapse of 2008 and the epic collapse of 2011, my father who has watched the Bills for 50 years now talking crazy talk saying he is not getting the NFL ticket next year and is done spending any money on this dissapointing team. It is just REALLY a frustrating year for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 This person got a lot of crap. How the Bills finish will determine whether he's vindicated or not. I'm sure that the "I told you so" stories at the bar are going to be sooo entertaining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandius Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm sure that the "I told you so" stories at the bar are going to be sooo entertaining If only we can hear those stories over your deafening "You ain't so great" jealousy. Quit hating. Give credit where due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I'm sure that the "I told you so" stories at the bar are going to be sooo entertaining Has OP started an "I told you so" thread? I must've missed it. I can link the "I told you so" thread after the Skins game if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Well, the OP was correct. Let's hope our method of losing is also unsustainable. 12 straight years with no playoffs is quite an improbability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just in Atlanta Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) this thread brings the LOLs and is a perfect microcosm for bills fans. guy says something brutally honest, and gets ripped apart because people just don't want to see the truth. turns out he was on the money. Props to EdwardsArm for having accurate insight that our team did in fact suck, like it has for 12 years, despite the rampant optimism of fans such as myself who believed we had actually turned a corner. I enjoyed mocking this thread a month or so ago. So, I'm manning up. I'll stop short of giving him the Nobel Prize for Martyrdom, though, because...it feels good every once in a while to celebrate good things instead of bashing the bad. At 3-0, and 5-2, there certainly seemed there was a lot of good. Now that we suck once again, we can all get back on the We Suck Bus: We have a completely sucky pass rush that, yes, cannot be sustained by however opportunistic our secondary is. We suck at drafting, especially since our best players for the most part are 7th rounders and below. Our line sucks at sustained pass protection, even though it's good at opening holes. Our QB throws sucky deep balls, even though he has one of the quickest releases around. Our coach sucks when it comes to not being committed to the run, even though at one point we had mega rush stats. No sarcasm here, but it's true--why on Earth did we stop running after the half yesterday? We suck at consistency...we don't even lose in consistent ways...poor gameplan (Cinci), poor 4th quarter plan (Giants), complete domination (Jets 1), complete meltdown (Dallas and Miami), penalties (Jets 2), mistakes (Titans). We have a sucky DC, even though...well, we just have a sucky DC. We have sucky depth. Heart, which this team no longer seems to have, can't win the day. Our receivers suck at clutch plays. So many dropped balls. WTF? Our QB's beard looks sucky. Trim that thing, Fitzy. This bus isn't fun at all. Edited December 5, 2011 by JustinAtlanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasternOHBillsFan Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I got a LOT of crap in this thread as well and in other ones, but injuries made a mediocre season into a nightmare season real quick. I so wanted to be wrong and get to 10-6, but our defense really sucks, and if Edwards (Georgie Porgie) keeps his job, then I'll be EXTREMELY angry. Andy Reid will get fired for not having a defensive coordinator, and Chan Gailey, for all he possesses in intelligence, HAS to realize Edwards must be fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gray Beard Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 I am glad somebody brought this thread back. I have been thinking about it for the past few days. Earlier in the season, I posted in a few other threads (not this one) that I thought they should use the fullback and tight ends more. I also wondered why the defense sucks given that Wannstedt is on the staff. Those comments were met with ridicule and I was told that Chan is a genius and I am a nobody. I am still a nobody, but it is amazing how perceptions about Chan being a genius have changed in just a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Here is the reason for this post! The Bills have recently been down the 4-1 road before, in 2008 in fact! All it took was one missed blocking assignment and a severe concussion on the QB to ruin that team for the 08 season. The effects of that concussion didn't manifest itself right away, but sometimes that's how they work. Will this Bills team go down that same road as that 8 team and tank the season? Good Lord I hope not because it looks like the Bills have finally found their QB. Guys, get a freaking grip on reality! This Bills defense is bad, how bad you ask? Currently 30th in the league bad, 29th in rushing bad, 26th in passing bad. They have no real pass rusher except Darius as Kyle Williams was blanked in Sundays game, no pressures, no tackles, no assists. Is he injured? George Wilson, Marcel Darius and Nick Barnett all made the defense look good. Still the defense allowed 489 yards to Vick & co. While the Bills offense was able to gain 331 yards, most of that was all Fred Jackson, 111 yards rushing, 85 receiving ...almost 200 yards of offense just from Freddy! The biggest reason the Bills were so successful on offense was because the HC of the Eagles took the O line coach and turned him into the DC this year, what a completely boneheaded move. The Bills spread offense forced the Eagles into a nickle package which the Bills exploited beautifully, the Eagles thought they could control FJ with just two LB's, needless to say the Eagles team can't tackle, isn't disciplined and shouldn't be playing a cover scheme with Nnamdi Asomugha...the freaking morons!! To the people that think turnovers aren't pure luck, you guys are delusional. Every team in the NFL teaches their players to try and strip the ball, intercept the ball, recover fumbles, every team! Just wait and watch what happens when the Bills fail to get turnovers, it won't be pretty! The Buffalo Bills are currently the #1 team in the NFL in turnover ratio! (Now this statistic might just be the only unsustainable) not the Steelers, not the Packers, not the Patriots. Do the Bills have a defense filled with pro bowlers? well maybe just one right now, Mr everywhere! Currently Buffalo is11th in total offense. They are 13th in passing offense and 4th in rushing offense. Needless to say as well as Fitzscreamy is playing, Fred Jackson is playing almost on another level and carrying this team. Wanna know an interesting fact? Fitzscreamy attempted only 3 passes over 10 yards against the Eagles! Its that spread offense and Fitz's ability to get the ball to the open receiver in 3 seconds that negates most pass rush against him. If you noticed in both the Bengals & Eagles game that when the Bills utilized a closed formation and tried to run and throw they were less successful. Both the Buffalo offense and defense can be exploited, the defense by a team with a power running game, the offense by stacking the box and jamming-knocking the receivers out of their routes. Thus causing Fitz to hold the ball longer, and attempt deeper passes. which he tried to do against Cincy, the result was he hurried many passes and they went wild. Probably why Marvin Lewis guaranteed a win against Buffalo and was able to pull it out with a rookie QB behind center. The Raiders this year fielded a brand new HC, new OC, new DC. The Patriots have the worst defense in the league and the best offense. Buffalo managed to get 4 INT's on Brady, a guy who only threw 4 INT's in all of last season! KC was a horridly bad team at the start of the year. The Bills have had some lucky breaks go their way so far this year (about time) and hopefully it will continue and the Bills keep winning. So unsustainable? Maybe yes, maybe no! It all depends on how that oblong spheroid bounces and how good their opponents play them. The Bills are currently tied in the AFC East with the Patriots and look to be better then the Jets and Dolphins. But the Bills still face the, 3-2 @ NY Giants, 3-1 Redskins up north, 2-2 @ Cowboys, 3-2 Titans, 4-1 @ Chargers, 4-1 @ Patriots. I agreed with Edwards Arm that the way they were winning was unsustainable. When I wrote that post I didn't realize that the passing defense would actually tank worse then the run defense this season. They went from a top ten secondary last season under the same coaches to one of the worst against the pass. Jeez guys, If I could figure out how to stop Chan Gaileys offense back in Oct. after that Cincy game, you had to know that DC's around the league could also. I Think what bothers me the most right now is Chan Gailey is looking an awful lot like ex Bill OC Turk Schonert. He keeps calling for pass plays even when the opposing defense is stacking their secondary! Instead of figuring out that he needs to run the ball more, especially when the RB is doing well. The Bills get down by 7 points and Gailey panics and just goes pass mode the rest of the game. Never mind the fact that the opposing defense is in a prevent, and hell bent on stopping the pass and rushing the passer. Kinda a perfect time to run the ball right down their throats. This last game against the Titans typifies what I mean. Spiller was actually doing very good 14 carries for 83 yards and Gailey just stopped running it! What gets me is when Fitz is having a tough time Gailey doesn't even try and build a steady running attack. I have to say I've lost faith in Chan Gailey when it takes him an entire season to figure out what he is doing wrong, and not just a game or two. I've also lost faith in Buddy Nix for failing to build this team properly and letting Gailey keep Edwards and that 3-4 Sad to say Bills fans with need to endure another 2 years of fail, another Jauron clone who is only good at one thing (passing offense) and even when that fails he just keeps forcing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 When I wrote that post I didn't realize that the passing defense would actually tank worse then the run defense this season. They went from a top ten secondary last season under the same coaches to one of the worst against the pass. Jeez guys, If I could figure out how to stop Chan Gaileys offense back in Oct. after that Cincy game, you had to know that DC's around the league could also. This is incorrect. In fact, if you measure by the opposing QB rating, the Bills passing defense last season was the worst in the entire history of the franchise. Opposing QBs had a 92.6 rating against them, which is unbelievably bad: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2010.htm . You're focusing on yards, which is not the proper measure. Also, as you can see, only one defense faced fewer pass attempts than the Bills D last season. That's obviously going to bring down the yardage total. However, when teams did actually throw, it was like a hot knife through butter. In truth, it was an epically bad pass defense which has improved slightly this year (although it's still bad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted December 7, 2011 Author Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Props to EdwardsArm for having accurate insight that our team did in fact suck, like it has for 12 years, despite the rampant optimism of fans such as myself who believed we had actually turned a corner. I enjoyed mocking this thread a month or so ago. So, I'm manning up. I'll stop short of giving him the Nobel Prize for Martyrdom, though, because...it feels good every once in a while to celebrate good things instead of bashing the bad. At 3-0, and 5-2, there certainly seemed there was a lot of good. Now that we suck once again, we can all get back on the We Suck Bus: We have a completely sucky pass rush that, yes, cannot be sustained by however opportunistic our secondary is. We suck at drafting, especially since our best players for the most part are 7th rounders and below. Our line sucks at sustained pass protection, even though it's good at opening holes. Our QB throws sucky deep balls, even though he has one of the quickest releases around. Our coach sucks when it comes to not being committed to the run, even though at one point we had mega rush stats. No sarcasm here, but it's true--why on Earth did we stop running after the half yesterday? We suck at consistency...we don't even lose in consistent ways...poor gameplan (Cinci), poor 4th quarter plan (Giants), complete domination (Jets 1), complete meltdown (Dallas and Miami), penalties (Jets 2), mistakes (Titans). We have a sucky DC, even though...well, we just have a sucky DC. We have sucky depth. Heart, which this team no longer seems to have, can't win the day. Our receivers suck at clutch plays. So many dropped balls. WTF? Our QB's beard looks sucky. Trim that thing, Fitzy. This bus isn't fun at all. I respect you for manning up. Not everyone has the self-confidence or integrity to admit being wrong. I agree it's more fun (and probably healthier) to celebrate the good things as opposed to dwelling on the negative. Unfortunately, Bills fans have had very little reason for legitimate hope over this past decade, which means our hopes have generally been false ones. I've read a little about American soldiers taken prisoner and tortured during the Vietnam War. Not that being a Bills fan is exactly the same as this, but . . . To continue, the article stated that prisoners who indulged in false hopes--"we're sure to be home by Christmas"--were generally the first ones to break down. The ones who made it through were those who believed that they would be set free eventually, but had no idea when "eventually" might be, or how much they'd have to endure in the meantime. Long-term optimism plus short-term realism is probably the best combination for any endeavor--including being a fan of this team! @BuffOrange: I haven't started an I-told-you-so thread. Bills fans have suffered enough already without me adding a thread like that! Edited December 7, 2011 by Edwards' Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I respect you for manning up. Not everyone has the self-confidence or integrity to admit being wrong. I agree it's more fun (and probably healthier) to celebrate the good things as opposed to dwelling on the negative. Unfortunately, Bills fans have had very little reason for legitimate hope over this past decade, which means our hopes have generally been false ones. I've read a little about American soldiers taken prisoner and tortured during the Vietnam War. Not that being a Bills fan is exactly the same as this, but . . . To continue, the article stated that prisoners who indulged in false hopes--"we're sure to be home by Christmas"--were generally the first ones to break down. The ones who made it through were those who believed that they would be set free eventually, but had no idea when "eventually" might be, or how much they'd have to endure in the meantime. Long-term optimism plus short-term realism is probably the best combination for any endeavor--including being a fan of this team! @BuffOrange: I haven't started an I-told-you-so thread. Bills fans have suffered enough already without me adding a thread like that! We agree more than we disagree about this team. But there is no such thing as "false hope". Hope, in all forms, is still hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsNeedaQBin2012 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I respect you for manning up. Not everyone has the self-confidence or integrity to admit being wrong. I agree it's more fun (and probably healthier) to celebrate the good things as opposed to dwelling on the negative. Unfortunately, Bills fans have had very little reason for legitimate hope over this past decade, which means our hopes have generally been false ones. I've read a little about American soldiers taken prisoner and tortured during the Vietnam War. Not that being a Bills fan is exactly the same as this, but . . . To continue, the article stated that prisoners who indulged in false hopes--"we're sure to be home by Christmas"--were generally the first ones to break down. The ones who made it through were those who believed that they would be set free eventually, but had no idea when "eventually" might be, or how much they'd have to endure in the meantime. Long-term optimism plus short-term realism is probably the best combination for any endeavor--including being a fan of this team! @BuffOrange: I haven't started an I-told-you-so thread. Bills fans have suffered enough already without me adding a thread like that! Well thanks for not torturing us anymore...lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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