Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Look, we'll find out soon enough if the Bills' starting five offensive linemen are up to the task. Chan and Buddy seem to think that they are, and frankly, they're staking their careers on it. But one thing that I think is undisputable is that there is absolutely no depth at this position. NONE. Other than Hangartner at center (and possibly Hairston, whom we know nothing about), I don't see one single NFL-caliber backup lineman on this team. Not one. If Bell goes down, who replaces him? Howard? Levitre? It's a mess, and there is no excuse for it. But there is a reason for it: Ralph and his Accountants don't care about depth, because by the time you need it, most of the tickets have been sold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Look, we'll find out soon enough if the Bills' starting five offensive linemen are up to the task. Chan and Buddy seem to think that they are, and frankly, they're staking their careers on it. But one thing that I think is undisputable is that there is absolutely no depth at this position. NONE. Other than Hangartner at center (and possibly Hairston, whom we know nothing about), I don't see one single NFL-caliber backup lineman on this team. Not one. If Bell goes down, who replaces him? Howard? Levitre? It's a mess, and there is no excuse for it. But there is a reason for it: Ralph and his Accountants don't care about depth, because by the time you need it, most of the tickets have been sold. If that first sentence were true then why would the Bills go after Claybo like they did? Dunno why this team has ignored building the line for so long, just seems epically moronic to me. There is always some skill player who looks like he might sell more tickets then a big ugly on the line I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Dunno why this team has ignored building the line for so long, just seems epically moronic to me. There is always some skill player who looks like he might sell more tickets then a big ugly on the line I suppose You answered your own question. That, and the Levy/Jauron stupidity of building a team through the secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If that first sentence were true then why would the Bills go after Claybo like they did? Dunno why this team has ignored building the line for so long, just seems epically moronic to me. There is always some skill player who looks like he might sell more tickets then a big ugly on the line I suppose I hear you but Clabo is the ONLY lineman they've gone after (that we know about). Probably saw him as a young upgrade, but if they were really desperate to improve the position you have to think they would have addressed it. And actually, I take back what I said about Chan - he was openly complaining to the media about the state of his offensive line last week. So it's Nix who has gone "all in" on this group of ragtags. I think Bill is right. Linemen aren't sexy, they don't sell tickets (in Ralph's simple-minded worldview). Why "waste" a first round pick on an offensive lineman when you can take Spiller and sell some jerseys. Honestly, I don't blame Ralph. Bills fans are just not very bright. It amazes me that folks still shell out money for this garbage year after year. I think it's a combination of older, nostalgic fans who go to the games to re-live the glory years, and young alcoholics who treat Bills games like Phish shows (just an excuse to get messed up). I can't see any other reasons why people would spend hard-earned dollars going to games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Look, we'll find out soon enough if the Bills' starting five offensive linemen are up to the task. Chan and Buddy seem to think that they are, and frankly, they're staking their careers on it. Not too much of a stretch, but Nix's career is the Bills job. He's not going anywhere no matter what happens in Buffalo. Even if he doesn't retire it's highly unlikely he'll end up as a GM on another squad. He may continue to scout. For Gailey, this is career resurrection, and logic would say that given the paucity of the Bills' roster last year, he made the bet to fix the D with new personnel since he figures he can always game plan around the offensive weaknesses. Since the Bills are intent to build from within, they don't have the luxury of restocking the entire roster in two seasons. As for the question of why greater OL help hasn't been brought in, that answer is somewhere in Detroit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm tired of offensive line commentary only because nearly EVERY fanbase complains about their teams offensive line. It's amazing how the best QB's always seem to overcome any O-line issues. I am in the DC area and all you hear and read are about the Ravens and Redskins complaining about their O-line woes. Not saying the Bills don't have issues but they are not the worst out of 32 teams. I bet 30 teams have similar issues. You just need to overcome it or build a defense that can take advantage of other team O-line problems and keep games close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills1960 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I for one am willing to give Urbik another shot based on the fact that as of right now there aren't any better options on the market. As for RT and Pears, there are options in Stinchomb, McKinnie and Kaczur so it'll be interesting to see if we make a move for any of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I for one am willing to give Urbik another shot based on the fact that as of right now there aren't any better options on the market. As for RT and Pears, there are options in Stinchomb, McKinnie and Kaczur so it'll be interesting to see if we make a move for any of them. Isn't Brian Waters a free agent? He's a better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Isn't Brian Waters a free agent? He's a better option. There doesn't seem to be much room for an aging veteran guard signing. It almost has to be a swing tackle. We have one veteran OC/OG back-up in Hangartner. If you bring in Waters, who has been very good, but is a 1-2 year stopgap, you don't develop anyone at that position, and you only have one guy on the bench, probably Urbik who doesn't get playing time. We have no veteran OT depth (or young for that matter). We could live with Urbik or Rineheart (with maybe starting Hangartner a few games if necessary). We need either a veteran starting RT like Stinchomb (if he's healthy) or a veteran swing tackle back-up who can play either side dude to injury or sucktitude. Hairston is going to stay but he won't be ready. We need to find two starters, but only one IMO can be a veteran stopgap. Pears can be a back-up OT with experience. He didn't play all that bad. Brian Waters of two years ago would have been ideal. Or a guy who is around 30 you could imagine playing for a few years. A guy who can start and play a few years like Stinch would be good. But we need to develop a line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 There doesn't seem to be much room for an aging veteran guard signing. It almost has to be a swing tackle. We have one veteran OC/OG back-up in Hangartner. If you bring in Waters, who has been very good, but is a 1-2 year stopgap, you don't develop anyone at that position, and you only have one guy on the bench, probably Urbik who doesn't get playing time. We have no veteran OT depth (or young for that matter). We could live with Urbik or Rineheart (with maybe starting Hangartner a few games if necessary). We need either a veteran starting RT like Stinchomb (if he's healthy) or a veteran swing tackle back-up who can play either side dude to injury or sucktitude. Hairston is going to stay but he won't be ready. We need to find two starters, but only one IMO can be a veteran stopgap. Pears can be a back-up OT with experience. He didn't play all that bad. Brian Waters of two years ago would have been ideal. Or a guy who is around 30 you could imagine playing for a few years. A guy who can start and play a few years like Stinch would be good. But we need to develop a line. I'm ok with that logic Kelly. It does bug me that the Chiefs are already talking about Gaither being their Left Tackle of the future, moving Brandon Albert to RT. He was sitting on the scrap heap a week ago. Stinchcomb is EXACTLY the type of player that Nix and Gailey claim to covet. Leader, tough guy, hard worker, high motor and high character. Has produced at every level and his teammates and coaches love him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I hear you but Clabo is the ONLY lineman they've gone after (that we know about). Probably saw him as a young upgrade, but if they were really desperate to improve the position you have to think they would have addressed it. And actually, I take back what I said about Chan - he was openly complaining to the media about the state of his offensive line last week. So it's Nix who has gone "all in" on this group of ragtags. I think Bill is right. Linemen aren't sexy, they don't sell tickets (in Ralph's simple-minded worldview). Why "waste" a first round pick on an offensive lineman when you can take Spiller and sell some jerseys. Honestly, I don't blame Ralph. Bills fans are just not very bright. It amazes me that folks still shell out money for this garbage year after year. I think it's a combination of older, nostalgic fans who go to the games to re-live the glory years, and young alcoholics who treat Bills games like Phish shows (just an excuse to get messed up). I can't see any other reasons why people would spend hard-earned dollars going to games. Yes, we know and have commented many times on Ralph's drafting and signings based on marketing more than what it takes to build a good foundation by drafting linemen. Not smart, that's a given. They should being going hard after Stinchcomb, but Nix is battling a reputation that is Ralph...we all know it. Free agents are very resistant in coming to Buffalo, as are good coaches, because of our owner and his terrible front office. I feel sorry for Buddy Nix. He has his hands tied, IMO, by Ralph and co. So Bills fans should not go and lose the team in a move to another city??? Bills fans are loyal and yes they can and do act stupid, as does any team's fans. Everyone is praying that the next owner will have the same passion for the Bills as Pegula does for the Sabres. In the meantime, we need to support the team in spite of bumbling front office moves. For someone who has posted over 4000 times, this is one of the most ignorant posts I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So Bills fans should not go and lose the team in a move to another city??? Bills fans are loyal and yes they can and do act stupid, as does any team's fans. Everyone is praying that the next owner will have the same passion for the Bills as Pegula does for the Sabres. In the meantime, we need to support the team in spite of bumbling front office moves. For someone who has posted over 4000 times, this is one of the most ignorant posts I've seen. Couldn't disagree more and I am damned sick of the pathetic, "We need to support them so they don't move" argument. That is why you keep getting sold snake oil. I'm not going to subscribe to a sub-par product and lower my expectations because someone is telling me that it's the best I deserve and that frankly, I'm lucky to have it. You know what? If my choice is a perennial loser or no team at all, then just move them already and be done with it. Bills fans = battered wives. Bills fans = hostages suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. It amazes me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloaggie Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Couldn't disagree more and I am damned sick of the pathetic, "We need to support them so they don't move" argument. That is why you keep getting sold snake oil. I'm not going to subscribe to a sub-par product and lower my expectations because someone is telling me that it's the best I deserve and that frankly, I'm lucky to have it. You know what? If my choice is a perennial loser or no team at all, then just move them already and be done with it. Bills fans = battered wives. Bills fans = hostages suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. It amazes me. But you have to look at the bigger picture. The city of Buffalo has a more depressed economy than many areas of the country. Therefore, they need to keep what business entities they have here. The Bills generate jobs and helps the Buffalo economy. And it provides a much needed diversion. We all are sick of Ralph trying to milk every penny out of this team by fielding an "inexpensive" product. So I take it you are not a Bills fan, because that seems to be your only out. My out from this purgatory, as bad as it sounds, is Ralph passing on, and the Bills being sold to a passionate and intelligent ownership group. Then, they'll be more aggressive to get some good Offensive lineman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Improving the offensive line didn't have to be a three year process. There have been two drafts and two free agency periods in addition to the possibility of trades. Using a tight end as a quasi tackle and failing to utilize a first round draft pick halfback because of lack of confidence in the o-line is not a way to build a team. With all due respect, we needed an offensive tackle more than we needed Spiller. The best way to compensate for a bad offensive line is to get good offensive linemen. I think Nix/Gailey saw many weakness on this team. We needed playmakers, D Linemen, O Linemen, maybe a QB, etc. They went with Spiller and Dareus, for example, because the way the draft played out. I don't think they intentionally neglected the O line. I think they merely combined the 'best-player-available' approach with the 'player-most-needed' approach on draft weekend. Given how the drafts went down, it would have been nice, however, to see them pursue O Linemen more aggressively in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattsox Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 So you think Gailey has a ****ty o-line by design and intent and preference? LOL, yeah. That's what every HC hopes for, omg. Again, Gailey is using what he has to work with, but it's not by design. It's what he has inherited. He inherited a pile of poo at O-Line minus Levitre and Wood. As far as I'm concerned We don't have a Starting LT,RT or RG. I guess next year's draft will be geared towards the Offense, since we really didn't do anything in FA to address this need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Yes, the offensive coordinators in this league have no way to predict zone defenses...neither do the QBs or WRs. In fact Fitz has no idea how to read zone at the line of scrimmage... ....other than a magic 8 ball. To help the poster that wasn't aware - there are tons of tips that a team is in man/zone. Typically, watch for a receiver in motion most of the time. Some OCs like pre-snap motion in to see if a guy is trading or following the player. Also, if it's one high (one safety) or two high, how the corners are spaced, how the linebackers line up (particularly in a tampa or pro cover 2). So yes, there are ways and OC didn't pull this outta his/her keister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LynchMob23 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I'm ok with that logic Kelly. It does bug me that the Chiefs are already talking about Gaither being their Left Tackle of the future, moving Brandon Albert to RT. He was sitting on the scrap heap a week ago. Stinchcomb is EXACTLY the type of player that Nix and Gailey claim to covet. Leader, tough guy, hard worker, high motor and high character. Has produced at every level and his teammates and coaches love him. One thing about Gaither though Coach is that from college he's been hounded with a lack of work ethic and having some "dog" in him. If he becomes their LT and they regress because he doesn't rehab his back right, they're in bad shape... I agree with you re: Stinchcomb though. If they bring him in however, he's not the best at recovering at times in pass pro, but that may be from the injury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsHope2013 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 why arent the bills looking at former giants center Shaun O'Hara or former giants guard Rich Seubert? i mean yeah they are veterans but they blocked for eli manning and he rarely got hit. or how about eagles former guard/center Nick Cole... these 3 are all free agents and definately upgrades from Urbik and Pears. come onn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Look, we'll find out soon enough if the Bills' starting five offensive linemen are up to the task. Chan and Buddy seem to think that they are, and frankly, they're staking their careers on it. But one thing that I think is undisputable is that there is absolutely no depth at this position. NONE. Other than Hangartner at center (and possibly Hairston, whom we know nothing about), I don't see one single NFL-caliber backup lineman on this team. Not one. If Bell goes down, who replaces him? Howard? Levitre? It's a mess, and there is no excuse for it. But there is a reason for it: Ralph and his Accountants don't care about depth, because by the time you need it, most of the tickets have been sold. Nix has a lot riding on this season: the lack of quality resources allocated to the OL, trusting Merriman to remain healthy and provide a pass rush, Spiller's improvement to being an all-around back, the WR corps now without their arguably best threat, et al. It's not enough to get 50% of your personnel decisions right and if the OL isn't at least replacement level in 2011, the trust in Nix needs to be downgraded. If he can't put together a decent OL I have serious doubts about his other decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 (edited) Look, we'll find out soon enough if the Bills' starting five offensive linemen are up to the task. Chan and Buddy seem to think that they are, and frankly, they're staking their careers on it. But one thing that I think is undisputable is that there is absolutely no depth at this position. NONE. Other than Hangartner at center (and possibly Hairston, whom we know nothing about), I don't see one single NFL-caliber backup lineman on this team. Not one. If Bell goes down, who replaces him? Howard? Levitre? It's a mess, and there is no excuse for it. But there is a reason for it: Ralph and his Accountants don't care about depth, because by the time you need it, most of the tickets have been sold. Confirmed from the horse's mouth: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-offensiveline “We don’t have enough offensive linemen. We don’t have enough depth,” Nix told The Associated Press on Tuesday. “Our guys are a work in progress.” Way to address this in a timely fashion Buddy. Don't worry, you have all of the time in the world. Maybe next year you'll build a line. EDIT: I mean this makes me fume, seriously. The guy now admits that despite two offseasons and two drafts, he hasn't acquired sufficient depth at arguably the most important position in football. The core building block of any franchise. What the hell is he waiting for? Such a horribly-run business. Edited August 17, 2011 by Coach Tuesday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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