Would you mind if the Bills trade back twice ??

[San-O]

Anything that would help or improve the Bills chances of getting good players.

 

They can't continue to miss on their high round picks and expect to improve.

 

[billsfan89]

I wouldn't mind a trade down to the lower top 10 and picking up an extra 2nd and 4th in the process. However this team needs a real impact player they can still find one very easily in the 8-10 range. This team has a lot of needs so picking up a second rounder (Which is the type of pick that could help right away) but the team could still get an impact player and get an extra pick by going down from 3 to 8-11.

 

Two trade downs on the other hand is a little iffy.

[Scrappy]

I wouldn't mind a trade down to the lower top 10 and picking up an extra 2nd and 4th in the process. However this team needs a real impact player they can still find one very easily in the 8-10 range. This team has a lot of needs so picking up a second rounder (Which is the type of pick that could help right away) but the team could still get an impact player and get an extra pick by going down from 3 to 8-11.

 

Two trade downs on the other hand is a little iffy.

 

I can't say I mind this scenario but the trade back to the 5th for an extra 2nd / 4th & then step back to the Cowboys pick for another 2nd / 4th might not be a bad idea. 3 2nd rounders with most of them coming early in the 2nd raises our chances of finding a "impact player".

[NoSaint]

I can see the Bills dropping back into the 8-12 range to pick up an additional 2 & maybe a 4th but would you mind if they took another trade back to later in the first while picking up an additional 2nd??

 

This would basically give us pick 22-28, we can then pick early second round (QB Colin Kaepernick hopefully) with our own second rounder & have the 42-44 pick / 54-60 pick. I can't see how we can't improve our defense with this many early picks in this deep a draft & this is a good year to have 4 picks in the first 60. Please pull it apart with logic, thanks.

 

I'd be more than a little embarrassed by this. Trading back to 10 should net like twice as much as you anticipate getting to fall from 3 to 25. I know those charts are rough guides but jeeeze. If I can find the next elite HoF talent- I want more than a couple serviceable starters in return. Realistically I want a 2 this year, plus a 1 next year to fall to 10, and probably a 2 and something valuable to drop into the 20s from there

[Scrappy]

I'd be more than a little embarrassed by this. Trading back to 10 should net like twice as much as you anticipate getting to fall from 3 to 25. I know those charts are rough guides but jeeeze. If I can find the next elite HoF talent- I want more than a couple serviceable starters in return. Realistically I want a 2 this year, plus a 1 next year to fall to 10, and probably a 2 and something valuable to drop into the 20s from there

 

I think your expectations & where we end up may not meet, which is the same story for 31 teams a year.

[Dragonborn10]

A drop below 15 and not getting a chance to draft the likes of Watt, Quinn, or Jordan would require a number 1 in 2012. Even picking up two number two's would not be worth dropping from 3 to the bottom half of the first round. To go that far they would have to get a number 1 next year.

[NoSaint]

I think your expectations & where we end up may not meet, which is the same story for 31 teams a year.

 

 

im not saying i expect it to happen, but im not wanting to trade just for the sake of trading. sure players tend to be 50-50 whether they are career players or out of the league but the career players in the top 5 tend to be HUGE difference makers, where careers in the late first/early second are much more likely to be serviceable starters.

 

i may be over reaching some, but based on just the draft value chart you are leaving a late 1 this year, or early 1 next year AND some more, on the table. honestly, i would rather flip a coin on a HoF unless I have something big on the table.

[Scrappy]

im not saying i expect it to happen, but im not wanting to trade just for the sake of trading. sure players tend to be 50-50 whether they are career players or out of the league but the career players in the top 5 tend to be HUGE difference makers, where careers in the late first/early second are much more likely to be serviceable starters.

 

i may be over reaching some, but based on just the draft value chart you are leaving a late 1 this year, or early 1 next year AND some more, on the table. honestly, i would rather flip a coin on a HoF unless I have something big on the table.

 

I'm not disagreeing with you here but the depth on defense this year is real juicy into the second round, we need help & it's not coming by Free agency. I hope they just do what's best for the team, that's all we can hope for as a whole.

[Offside Number 76]

I like Kaepernick too and I am hearing (Sirius NFL radio) that he will definitely go in the second round, so if we want him, that should be where we take him.

 

Three months ago I was considered a jackass for suggesting him in the fourth or fifth. He wasn't even worth that, I was told. Hmm.

Edited April 12, 2011 by Offsides Number 76

[NoSaint]

I'm not disagreeing with you here but the depth on defense this year is real juicy into the second round, we need help & it's not coming by Free agency. I hope they just do what's best for the team, that's all we can hope for as a whole.

 

on that same note, we need stars. i think we are far more likely to go after average starters in free agency than we are a star. I also question just about any real highend player that hits free agency. obviously there are exceptions but most of the time there is a reason the team that drafted them isnt resigning them. its seldom that a guy that is both a monster on the field, and a great guy in the locker room hits free agency, especially at premiere positions. the only way you get game changers, franchise cornerstones, that change the culture of an organization like that consistently is to draft them, and often draft them very early. thats how we change the culture of this team. without getting a 1 next year, and/or a boatload of picks this year, i dont think our odds improve for finding that guy by making the trade you propose.

[NoSaint]

i will say if they are seriously targeting ILBs, TEs, a RT etc... then go ahead and trade away. We will be able to get premiere players at non premiere positions in that area.

 

i just think we need a dominant pass rusher or qb, and without that -- it doesnt matter much, we will be third in the division at best and probably about 6-8th in the AFC. sure we might slide into the playoffs but without those two things we will never be truly competitive at the highest level. i also think those 2 positions have the potential to make the players we already have step up to a higher level. I bet that our whole D would look better with a Demarcus Ware, healthy shawne merriman type player. I think we have (pretty close to) 11 guys that can start, but we dont have any of those special players.

 

I like Kaepernick too and I am hearing (Sirius NFL radio) that he will definitely go in the second round, so if we want him, that should be where we take him.

 

 

i just suspect someone HAS to slide. by the expert predictions gabbert, cam, locker, mallett, kap, dalton, and ponder have all been projected as early as late first/VERY early second. ive seen every single one of them projected at 3 or 34 depending on who you ask. i think you see as many of those go in the third as you do the first when all is said and done.

 

qbs arent like any other position in the draft, and its one of the few positions that guys like mcshay, kiper, and sirius nfl radio miss on by more than one round fairly regularly. Saying any qb, first round, and any team name will almost automatically get you more ratings than saying TE, guard, ILB, RT, safety etc..... if you a talking head. remember, these guys are driven by ratings, not by accuracy. we have seen pretty regularly that those two things are barely if at all related.

 

Remember how many teams that were considered absolutely desperate for QBs passed on Clausen who was a common pick for us at 9 last year? colt mccoy, one of those guys that was bantered about as a late one early two barely slid got picked in the third.

 

obviously that is one year, and two guys, but its rare to see a ton of guys in a "lackluster qb class" come off that early.

Edited April 12, 2011 by NoSaint

[JoeF]

At some point you need to get some real talent on this team. Yes the Bills need bodies in a lot of places, but they also need a few stars to get the team to the next level.

 

Stars at certain positions like QB on Offense and Rush OLB in the 3-4 make everyone look better...we should, and I stress should, be able to get someone of star quality at #3..less likely at 8-10, even less likely at 22-30....

[NoSaint]

Stars at certain positions like QB on Offense and Rush OLB in the 3-4 make everyone look better...we should, and I stress should, be able to get someone of star quality at #3..less likely at 8-10, even less likely at 22-30....

 

Thats what im saying -- if we get a demarcus ware, i bet our dline looks much better, our corners look much better etc -- it has potential to upgrade all 11 positions, as opposed to an average linebacker, and average end that upgrade 2 positions.

[jumbalaya]

Replying to Would you mind if the Bills trade back twice ??

 

I don't think the Bills care if I mind or not, but it would be pretty retarded if they did. But then again so was the way they handled last years draft.

Agree, if you trade down do it once and get a top tier player, trading down twice gets you another Aaron Maybe. Trade down once and land Fairley, Jordan or Watt and I am happy. Get an extra second and stay on defense with both picks. This crap about a QB or OT when our defense sucks so bad is ridiculous. We can get a crappy QB or OT in round three as there is not much difference than the crap you would get from these positions in rd 2. This draft is all about defense draft to its strength.

[ieatcrayonz]

I want to trade back twice........

 

with the third overall pick we can trade back with arizona cardinals, they want a qb, and they have to pull the triger with us, if they want to see a qb with the name Cam Newton or blaine gabert, if someone of this two qbs go 1st overall, then the other one maybe go to cincinatti bengals, so if they want one of these two, they have to trade with us or denver, maybe they want that qb so much, that they dont mind give us his 5 overall pick and his 2nd. round.......

 

And with the 5th overall pick a team that want patrick peterson or von miller trade with us maybe dallas, maybe lions, and they have to give us his 1st round and his 2nd round, could be a dream come true for me........

 

With the first round the buffalo bills select........

1- Robert Quinn OLB starter since day one......

2a- Kyle Rudolph TE, yeah! another starter, more weapons for fitz.........

2b- Martez Wilson ILB, more starters, and finally we can stop the run, with quinn and wilson

2c- Marcus Cannon RT or Marcus Gilbert, I need a RT starter for the next year......

3- Phil Taylor NT, well maybe he can drop all the way into the third round, he has some knee issues, i guess........

4a- Casey Mathews ILB well, if he is the half of his brother, well, he can start for us.......

4b- Chimdi Chekwa CB for nickel situations with mcgee and mckelvin for starters.....

5- Dom Decicco SS this could end the year be the ss starter, who knows, this kid has the tools.........

6- Darius Morris G or Demarcus Love G, we need depth on the ofensive line......

7a- Lee Ziemba LT a project....

7b- Roy Helu RB for the short yardage situations.....

 

Well, do you feel happy with this draft or not.......

Yeah, I dont have QB in my mock because I dont think we need a QB to sit behind fitz for 2 or 3 years......

the next draft if you want you can select a qb in the first or second or third round, whatever......... We need starters, now.......... no for the 2013 season.......

My mock draft was similar to yours.

[reddogblitz]

I'd rather see us just take the best guy available at 3. Let's get a stud. That's what we need. We got a team of jouneymen, hard working, high motor, good character guys. We need some studs. Let's just pick a stud at 3 and then take it from there. Use the old addage Quality is better than quantity.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Trading out of the best chance we'll have to add Top Tier talent to this team would upset me a little.

 

If this is the pile of garbage we ended up with after that trade, Id be absolutely furious.

 

Only the Bills could turn the #3 overall pick into a handful of mid-level talent (at best).

Brian Bulaga, Aarron Rogers and Clay Matthews were mid-level talent (at best) but I guess Greenbay is clueless anyway.

 

comparing Ponder's arm to Mallet and Vick's?? ok dude...

Talking about Kaepernick genius, You should stop drinking before you post.

[NewEra]

Agree, if you trade down do it once and get a top tier player, trading down twice gets you another Aaron Maybe. Trade down once and land Fairley, Jordan or Watt and I am happy. Get an extra second and stay on defense with both picks. This crap about a QB or OT when our defense sucks so bad is ridiculous. We can get a crappy QB or OT in round three as there is not much difference than the crap you would get from these positions in rd 2. This draft is all about defense draft to its strength.

Look at the holes we have on offense and defense. Fill them one by one. Take the player you like the most that fills a particular hole. Fillets rest of the holes in FA, next years draft and FA. When you have as many holes as we do, there is no one way to fill them. Whatever hole we fill this year, is one less hole to fill next year. I agree that this years draft is deep defensively, all the more reason to draft a QB 1st if they like one of them. QB is the one position I think is a wasted pick if it's not in the first round. But that's just my take on the matter

[Scrappy]

Look at the holes we have on offense and defense. Fill them one by one. Take the player you like the most that fills a particular hole. Fillets rest of the holes in FA, next years draft and FA. When you have as many holes as we do, there is no one way to fill them. Whatever hole we fill this year, is one less hole to fill next year. I agree that this years draft is deep defensively, all the more reason to draft a QB 1st if they like one of them. QB is the one position I think is a wasted pick if it's not in the first round. But that's just my take on the matter

 

Using your logic, wouldn't you be better off taking the very best looking defensive player with so many to choose from versus one of few QB projects??

[Hplarrm]

Quite easily, of the TOP QBs he has the most talent: the strongest arm, best arm, 38 wonderlick and shiftiest runner. Here are his combine scores with Blaine's and Cam's, his long jump and vertical may be less but I don't recall that being too important for QBs. Also he had the second highest wonderlick behind Gabbert's 42. I wasn't sure what Gabberts score was before I looked them up but felt he had the better mind for the game as I watched them play and is why I would take Gabbert with the 3rd overall. Cam's was 21 and Locker's was 20 which definitely showed in their games.

 

School, 40 yard, vertical jump, 3 cone drill, 20yd shuttle, broad jump

 

Kaepernick, Colin Nevada 4.53 32.5 6.85 4.18 9'7

 

Gabbert, Blaine Missouri 4.62 33.5 6.84 4.26 10'0

 

Newton, Cam Auburn 4.59 35.0 6.92 4.18 10'6

 

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2011/nfl-combine-results.cfm?pos=QB

 

http://www.holyturf.com/2011/03/wonderlic-test-scores-from-the-2011-nfl-combine/

Yes, a good article for those whose primary interest is the draft. However, if one's primary interest is the Bills and them winning in either the short term or the long term then the hope has to be they do not fill their definite need at QB until later in the draft.

 

A decision to go QB in the early picks is a decision not to use the early draft resource to reinforce a D which is likely two players (an OLB and a DE) away from adequacy. A first round drafted QB would not only be under tremendous pressure to produce immediately (as the conventional wisdom is falsely in reality for a 1st round pick) from Sully, the whiners at GR and a small but noisy part of the fan base, but would have to do so with basically the same inadequate D we have now,

 

Even worse, the OL is a player and a half away from adequacy (an RT, a swing guy to fill in adequately when the expected nicks happen to the starters. The highly drafted QB will not only likely be rushed to start before he is ready as we have continually done this past decade, but he probably will not even survive behind this OL which simply demands a smart vet to read the Ds, escape the rush when needed, and dump the ball when needed.

 

it seems to me that any QB drafted before the 4th round simply costs the Bills a draft pick which could have been used to help the team build a winner and takes up cap room when the players eventually sign.

 

Yes, the Bills need a franchise QB cause it ain't Fitzpatick but this player is going to be had from some other team that ran a good QB out of town as was done most recently with Brees and historically has included HOF players like Young and Favre. Even so-so QBs like Brad Johnson or Dilfer are capable of QBing sound teams to an SB win, the best bet for the Bills at this point is to worry about building a sound team rather than wasting resources at some shot in the dark young big resource eating QB.