Tom Cousineau

[ChevyVanMiller]

I was reading Tim Graham's column on the worst draft picks in the history of the AFC East. He commented that most of the Bills' fans that responded must have been young because the busts they chose (Maybin, M. Williams, McCargo - etc) were all made in the last decade. He was surprised that there weren't votes for Patulski, Tuttle and Terry Miller.

 

I also thought of former number 1 overall Tom Cousineau and wondered why his name never seems to come up in discussions of monumental Bills' busts. He never played for the Bills; went to the CFL and played for Montreal instead. When he wanted back in the NFL, the Bills traded his rights to Cleveland for the 14th overall pick, which turned into Jim Kelly and took a lot of the sting out of the wasted pick.(By the way, in his years with Cleveland, Cousineau was all NFL twice, but never played in the Pro Bowl - not sure how that is possible.

 

Anyway, I came across this column from last year. I'm sure that it probably was posted here, but it details the decision that Tom made to eschew the Bills in favor of Montreal.

 

 

Tom Couineau

 

Here is an excerpt that shows just how badly the Bills screwed things up and screwed Coach Chuck Knox in the process:

 

Cousineau remembered spending draft day at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City, then going to Buffalo where he went through some physical tests and answered questions at a news conference. Bills officials said they would take Cousineau back to his hotel, then pick him up for a casual, get-to-know-you dinner -- these were the days before the draft was an industry.

 

"I was waiting at the hotel (for dinner) and they never showed," Cousineau said. "They never called. I'm not kidding. Hearing no or being turned down or snubbed was not a new experience, but it seemed ... first of all very rude. And inhospitable."

 

His agent, Jimmy Walsh (who also represented Joe Namath) took it more personally.

 

"Jimmy was mortified," Cousineau said. "And then he got mad. And he sort of incited me, to be honest with you. I thought it was unusual, but Jimmy really took exception to it. So we just ordered something at the hotel.

 

"We sat there, and he said, 'Listen, I'll make a phone call if you don't mind. I have a good friend, Sam Berger, he owns the Montreal Alouettes and he's a wonderful, wonderful guy. I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to give them something to think about.'"

 

Less than 12 hours after Cousineau had been the first overall pick, Walsh disappeared, returned and said the pair had an appointment in Montreal the next day. By the end of that day, Cousineau said he had an agreement with Montreal for a three-year deal -- but the deal would void if he decided he preferred Buffalo.

 

He tried to negotiate with the Bills, but Buffalo's best offer was five years and $1.2 million. Montreal offered, with the signing bonus, a little more than $1 million for three years, Cousineau said. As talks bogged down, Cousineau said he remembered then Bills-coach Chuck Knox visiting him at Cleveland Airport and being near exasperated at the pace of negotiations between Walsh and GM Stew Barber.

 

"Going to Canada was never my first choice," Cousineau said. "And the Bills didn't have to match, but we told them, 'You need to do better. You know it and I know it.' Just compared to the guys downstream in that draft year who had already signed. I said, 'Why did you guys draft me? Did you draft me because you thought I would work for something that was not equitable? Is there something in my personality that led you to believe ... let's be fair. That's all I'm looking for.'

 

"And (Knox) was beside himself. He said, 'I'm doing everything I can.'"

 

It never became enough. Cousineau went to Montreal, and is still not sure why Buffalo did not come closer to the money the Alouettes offered.

 

"(Barber) was sort of the old guard," Cousineau said. "I think he resented the growth in salaries and where the game was going. I would imagine he'd have huge problems today."

 

The Bills at that time were known for their spendthrift ways, and the team was not a good one. In the five seasons between 1975 and 1980, the Bills won 17 games. It was not until Bill Polian took over in 1985 that the Bills started to win consistently. Was the Bills' offer fair? A Sports Illustrated story prior to the draft said Cousineau could expect an offer in the five-year, $1 million range, but Cousineau heard players taken after him made more.

 

"At the end of the day, it was their ball," Cousineau said.

 

It just shows that for all that Ralph Wilson has done for WNY by keeping the Bills here for all of these years, his reflexive cheapness has hurt his teams for decades and ultimately cost him a lot of pleasure as an owner. In other words, he left a lot of wins on the table.

Edited March 5, 2011 by ChevyVanMiller

[Green Lightning]

Cooz was never more than OK. He turned into Kelly so all's well. Barber was old school and to be fair to the FO at the time, things were changing in light speed with player's attitudes, agents and salaries at the time. While an interesting tidbit from the past,I hardly think this is relevant at all today.

[jahbonas]

In that similar time frame

1976 - All pro Ahamad rashad allowed to walk over $15k and went to Vikes

1979 - Wilson loses #1 overall pick to CFL - never done before or since

1982 - Coach Chuck Knox leaves in disgust and goes to Seattle to win their 1st ever AFC West Div Title

1983 - loses 4 time Pro Bowl Joe Cribbs to USFL (led Bills in rushing & receiving year he left)

***Surprise surpise 1985/1985 we are back to back 2-14 seasons

1984 he lucks out and hires cheapest GM in football but he is Bill Polian

 

And Ralph is in the hall of fame...and Knox is not...and Levy is.....incredible

[Bob in STL]

I was reading Tim Graham's column on the worst draft picks in the history of the AFC East. He commented that most of the Bills' fans that responded must have been young because the busts they chose (Maybin, M. Williams, McCargo - etc) were all made in the last decade. He was surprised that there weren't votes for Patulski, Tuttle and Terry Miller.

 

I also thought of former number 1 overall Tom Cousineau and wondered why his name never seems to come up in discussions of monumental Bills' busts. He never played for the Bills; went to the CFL and played for Montreal instead. When he wanted back in the NFL, the Bills traded his rights to Cleveland for the 14th overall pick, which turned into Jim Kelly and took a lot of the sting out of the wasted pick.(By the way, in his years with Cleveland, Cousineau was all NFL twice, but never played in the Pro Bowl - not sure how that is possible.

 

Anyway, I came across this column from last year. I'm sure that it probably was posted here, but it details the decision that Tom made to eschew the Bills in favor of Montreal.

 

 

Tom Couineau

 

Here is an excerpt that shows just how badly the Bills screwed things up and screwed Coach Chuck Knox in the process:

 

Cousineau remembered spending draft day at the Waldorf Astoria in New York City, then going to Buffalo where he went through some physical tests and answered questions at a news conference. Bills officials said they would take Cousineau back to his hotel, then pick him up for a casual, get-to-know-you dinner -- these were the days before the draft was an industry.

 

"I was waiting at the hotel (for dinner) and they never showed," Cousineau said. "They never called. I'm not kidding. Hearing no or being turned down or snubbed was not a new experience, but it seemed ... first of all very rude. And inhospitable."

 

His agent, Jimmy Walsh (who also represented Joe Namath) took it more personally.

 

"Jimmy was mortified," Cousineau said. "And then he got mad. And he sort of incited me, to be honest with you. I thought it was unusual, but Jimmy really took exception to it. So we just ordered something at the hotel.

 

"We sat there, and he said, 'Listen, I'll make a phone call if you don't mind. I have a good friend, Sam Berger, he owns the Montreal Alouettes and he's a wonderful, wonderful guy. I don't know what's going on, but I'm going to give them something to think about.'"

 

Less than 12 hours after Cousineau had been the first overall pick, Walsh disappeared, returned and said the pair had an appointment in Montreal the next day. By the end of that day, Cousineau said he had an agreement with Montreal for a three-year deal -- but the deal would void if he decided he preferred Buffalo.

 

He tried to negotiate with the Bills, but Buffalo's best offer was five years and $1.2 million. Montreal offered, with the signing bonus, a little more than $1 million for three years, Cousineau said. As talks bogged down, Cousineau said he remembered then Bills-coach Chuck Knox visiting him at Cleveland Airport and being near exasperated at the pace of negotiations between Walsh and GM Stew Barber.

 

"Going to Canada was never my first choice," Cousineau said. "And the Bills didn't have to match, but we told them, 'You need to do better. You know it and I know it.' Just compared to the guys downstream in that draft year who had already signed. I said, 'Why did you guys draft me? Did you draft me because you thought I would work for something that was not equitable? Is there something in my personality that led you to believe ... let's be fair. That's all I'm looking for.'

 

"And (Knox) was beside himself. He said, 'I'm doing everything I can.'"

 

It never became enough. Cousineau went to Montreal, and is still not sure why Buffalo did not come closer to the money the Alouettes offered.

 

"(Barber) was sort of the old guard," Cousineau said. "I think he resented the growth in salaries and where the game was going. I would imagine he'd have huge problems today."

 

The Bills at that time were known for their spendthrift ways, and the team was not a good one. In the five seasons between 1975 and 1980, the Bills won 17 games. It was not until Bill Polian took over in 1985 that the Bills started to win consistently. Was the Bills' offer fair? A Sports Illustrated story prior to the draft said Cousineau could expect an offer in the five-year, $1 million range, but Cousineau heard players taken after him made more.

 

"At the end of the day, it was their ball," Cousineau said.

 

It just shows that for all that Ralph Wilson has done for WNY by keeping the Bills here for all of these years, his reflexive cheapness has hurt his teams for decades and ultimately cost him a lot of pleasure as an owner. In other words, he left a lot of wins on the table.

 

 

So if this is a "Ralph is cheap" post we know that he has, at numerous times in Bills history, made blunders when it comes to paying people -- or paying the right people. That has been covered in detail.

 

If it is a "biggest bust" post then I say Patulski and Miller don't make the list. At least Patulski played, and started, for a few years. As did Miller who had one 1,000 yard season and then flamed out. Perry Tuttle, Booker Moore, Phil Dokes, and John McCargo --- these guys could even get on the field as backups.

 

As for Cooz - he regrets his Pro career and he has gone public on the negotiations. The Bills were probably as dysfunctional as he desribes but Cooz had a bad attitude from the start. When he signed with the CFL he said Montreal had "better looking women". He quickly turned the negotiations into an ultimatum. He wanted to be a super star before he ever played a game.

[Bob in STL]

In that similar time frame

1976 - All pro Ahamad rashad allowed to walk over $15k and went to Vikes

1979 - Wilson loses #1 overall pick to CFL - never done before or since

1982 - Coach Chuck Knox leaves in disgust and goes to Seattle to win their 1st ever AFC West Div Title

1983 - loses 4 time Pro Bowl Joe Cribbs to USFL (led Bills in rushing & receiving year he left)

***Surprise surpise 1985/1985 we are back to back 2-14 seasons

1984 he lucks out and hires cheapest GM in football but he is Bill Polian

 

And Ralph is in the hall of fame...and Knox is not...and Levy is.....incredible

 

Yes - Ralph has messed up some things as you state. I could add even more but lets look at everything, lets look at his entiree career.

 

Ralph did some exceptional things for the AFL and the NFL from 1960 to 1975. He financially bailed out the Raiders and the Pats* in the 60's to keep the AFL afloat. He help negotiate a big TV agreement for the AFL that put them on par with the NFL in terms of TV revenue.

 

He also was a huge advocate for small markets from 1985 to present time. He was considered the conscience of the NFL for a long time, trying to keep ticket prices reasonable for the "average fan" rather than selling out to corporations. For as much money he made in Buffalo he could have bailed and made lots more (see Irsay, Bidwell and Modell).

 

Had the "young gun" owners listened to Ralph a few years ago we might not be looking at this new CBA and possible work stoppage that we are today.

 

Knox's was a very good coach indeed, but his Hall of Fame resume pales in comparision to Ralph's ... which is why he is not in.

[silvermike]

In that similar time frame

1976 - All pro Ahamad rashad allowed to walk over $15k and went to Vikes

1979 - Wilson loses #1 overall pick to CFL - never done before or since

1982 - Coach Chuck Knox leaves in disgust and goes to Seattle to win their 1st ever AFC West Div Title

1983 - loses 4 time Pro Bowl Joe Cribbs to USFL (led Bills in rushing & receiving year he left)

***Surprise surpise 1985/1985 we are back to back 2-14 seasons

1984 he lucks out and hires cheapest GM in football but he is Bill Polian

 

And Ralph is in the hall of fame...and Knox is not...and Levy is.....incredible

 

Of cousre, we also lost Jim Kelly for several years to the Houston Gamblers.

[Rico]

Thanks again, Ralph.

[hondo in seattle]

Hard to consider Cousineau a draft bust when we traded him and ended up with Kelly.

 

And Terry Miller wasn't a traditional draft bust. We didn't do a poor job evaluating this guy's pro potential. He was a beast in college and looked like he'd become a star in the NFL when he rushed for 1000+ yards at 4.5 ypc his rookie year with the Bills. But as I recall, he then developed some wierd disease and lost his peripheral vision. Still a great athlete, he couldn't see his way around the field and his career was pretty much done.

[CookieG]

Hard to consider Cousineau a draft bust when we traded him and ended up with Kelly.

 

And Terry Miller wasn't a traditional draft bust. We didn't do a poor job evaluating this guy's pro potential. He was a beast in college and looked like he'd become a star in the NFL when he rushed for 1000+ yards at 4.5 ypc his rookie year with the Bills. But as I recall, he then developed some wierd disease and lost his peripheral vision. Still a great athlete, he couldn't see his way around the field and his career was pretty much done.

 

 

I didn't know that about Miller. The 1978 draft looked great on paper. Miller ran through a number of very good D's in the Big 8 (at the time). On defense, Knox said he wanted guys who were strong, fast and mean. Hardison and Hutchinson seemed to fit the bill. They were better than what we had, since the run D was about as bad as it was last season. But something seemed to be missing.

 

Other than the eventual trade-and-Kelly-pick, the other thing that took the sting out of the Cousineau debacle was the drafting of Smerlas and Haslett. Like Hardison and Hutchinson, they were strong, fast and mean. UnlikeHardison and Hutchinson, they made a difference. The D improved to about average their first year, and went to No. 1 in the league the next. I said it at the time, and still say it, I'm not sure Cousineau would have started in front of either Haslett or Nelson on the inside.

[ChevyVanMiller]

Hard to consider Cousineau a draft bust when we traded him and ended up with Kelly

 

I don't necessarily disagree, but there was (with Cousineau's CFL time and Kelly's USFL career) 7 years from the time the first pick was made and a resulting player hit the field in a Bills' uni. If that happened today fans would probably riot and burn the stadium down.

 

Maybe what is most interesting is that two co-joined Number 1 picks both chose to play in inferior leagues rather than play for the Bills.

[thewildrabbit]

Two words...Stew Barber, what a joke for a GM.....It just goes to show just how good Chuck Knox was in getting his Bills teams into the playoffs with that moron as GM.... Knox could take a team of ordinary men and turn them into a playoff team, a supreme motivator.

 

I'd like to think that if Cousineau had played for Buffalo that Knox could have developed that kid into an all pro in no time, to me coaching is everything. Kinda sad the difference between the Bills and TC was only 20k...alas, we will never know.

 

 

Only the Bills could draft a player 1st overall and have him go to the CFL instead of the NFL.....makes me wonder if this move had any influence on Jim Kelly choosing the USFL instead of Buffalo.

[K-9]

While RW may have been a tad tight-fisted with Cousineau initially, it's worth noting that the Bills matched Houston's then record offer for a defensive player when Cousineau left the CFL to play in the NFL.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GRHater69]

Be careful blaming the FO for the departure of Joe Cribbs. Remember that his agent Dr Jerry Argovitz had a minority interest in the Houston Gamblers of the USFL. It was very important for the USFL that a player of Cribbs stature wound up in the league to help give it credibility. If you look at the negotiations back then nothing the Bills did could have kept Cribbs with Argovitz as his agent.

 

BTW Tom Ruud, Phil Dokes, Perry Tuttle, Erik Flowers are in a tie for me if you're talking 1st round busts.

[Albany,n.y.]

While RW may have been a tad tight-fisted with Cousineau initially, it's worth noting that the Bills matched Houston's then record offer for a defensive player when Cousineau left the CFL to play in the NFL.

 

GO BILLS!!!

He matched it only because he didn't have to pay a dime of the contract. They had the trade with Cleveland worked out so Ralph was never in any danger of having to pay Cousineau.

Here's the story from Relentless under the year 1982:

April 19- The Houston Oilers presented Tom Cousineau a five year contract offer worth $3.5 million, including a $1 million signing bonus. It would make him the highest-paid player in the NFL. The Bills had three options: They could match the offer and sign him themselves; they could match the offer, then trade him to another team; or not match and get nothing in return for him.

April 21- Chuck Knox reiterated that he would love to sign Cousineau, but it was Ralph Wilson's decision, not his.

April 24- The Bills matched Houston's offer, then turned around and traded Cousineau to the Browns for a package of draft choices, including the Browns' first-round choice in the upcoming draft.** "I was shocked by Houston's offer", Ralph Wilson said. "It was way out of line. I thought if it was anything reasonable, he would be playing for the Bills." Chuck Knox expressed disappointment that the team had lost Cousineau.

 

**-As we all know, the pick was in the 1983 draft, not the upcoming 1982 draft. a small error in Relentless, but the rest of the story confirms Ralph had no intention of ever paying Cousineau the contract Houston signed him to.

[K-9]

He matched it only because he didn't have to pay a dime of the contract. They had the trade with Cleveland worked out so Ralph was never in any danger of having to pay Cousineau.

Here's the story from Relentless under the year 1982:

April 19- The Houston Oilers presented Tom Cousineau a five year contract offer worth $3.5 million, including a $1 million signing bonus. It would make him the highest-paid player in the NFL. The Bills had three options: They could match the offer and sign him themselves; they could match the offer, then trade him to another team; or not match and get nothing in return for him.

April 21- Chuck Knox reiterated that he would love to sign Cousineau, but it was Ralph Wilson's decision, not his.

April 24- The Bills matched Houston's offer, then turned around and traded Cousineau to the Browns for a package of draft choices, including the Browns' first-round choice in the upcoming draft.** "I was shocked by Houston's offer", Ralph Wilson said. "It was way out of line. I thought if it was anything reasonable, he would be playing for the Bills." Chuck Knox expressed disappointment that the team had lost Cousineau.

 

**-As we all know, the pick was in the 1983 draft, not the upcoming 1982 draft. a small error in Relentless, but the rest of the story confirms Ralph had no intention of ever paying Cousineau the contract Houston signed him to.

 

Thanks for the info. I didn't know the trade with Cleveland had already been worked out. But I'm wondering why Cleveland didn't just sign him to the offer sheet that Houston did. That would have forced Buffalo to either match or lose him for nothing AND they would have saved the 1st round pick in the '83 draft. Doesn't make sense if I'm Cleveland. Hell, Cousineau was the hometown boy, wasn't he?

 

GO BILLS!!!