freester Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If his skill set translates, he should be moved to DE. Stroud will likely be cut and can't play DE. Carrington has potential and Edwards is likely to return. We then need to add a large NT like Shaun Rogers or other massive size NT. 350 lbs of run stuffing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think Williams has proven that he can play ANY position in ANY scheme, regardless of his size. So yes, he could move to DE if we pick up a FA NT. I'd love to see us do that AND draft Dareus. So our DL would look like: Williams(Edwards)-Troupe(Rogers)-Carrington(Dareus) Those 6 guys on a rotation would be unstoppable, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FluffHead Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Rogers is a fat lazy cancer. I'd rather not have him around our young impressionable team. If we want another nose tackle, take Phil Taylor from Baylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbosrrgood Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 They should certainly give it a try. Personally I think he (Kyle) could be impressive as a 3-4 end. Please no Shaun Rodgers though. A Fat, slow, unmotivated, injury prone, low character guy would NOT help our team. He is washed up and can only play a few downs at a time anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BucksNBills Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Don't understand the love affair with the very unimpressive Carrington. If we take Dareus at 3, you better hope he starts on that end. I think Williams has proven that he can play ANY position in ANY scheme, regardless of his size. So yes, he could move to DE if we pick up a FA NT. I'd love to see us do that AND draft Dareus. So our DL would look like: Williams(Edwards)-Troupe(Rogers)-Carrington(Dareus) Those 6 guys on a rotation would be unstoppable, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 We do have Troup. Just because he wasn't a Pro Bowler last year doesn't mean he's not capable of manning the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Rogers is a fat lazy cancer. I'd rather not have him around our young impressionable team. If we want another nose tackle, take Phil Taylor from Baylor. Agreed, I used him in my post just as an example. Would rather have Solai from Miami, or a draft pick, at NT. Don't understand the love affair with the very unimpressive Carrington. If we take Dareus at 3, you better hope he starts on that end. Unimpressive? He was a rookie who took some time to develop (and is still developing) and who played VERY well in the time he saw at the end of the year. I agree that Dareus should start over him, but I just listed the "veteran" as the starter since rookies are always question marks. With the constant rotation, it doesnt really matter anyways. We do have Troup. Just because he wasn't a Pro Bowler last year doesn't mean he's not capable of manning the position. That is only 1 player at NT though. What happens when an OLineman falls into his leg and he's out for the year? If there is one thing this team has proven, it's that you must have quality depth. I like Troupe a lot, but you need to have a quality backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I think Williams has proven that he can play ANY position in ANY scheme, regardless of his size. I know he has played NT, which IMO he is undersized for, and he has played 4-3 DT, but he has only had a handful of plays at DE in either a 3-4 or 4-3. I don't know how this proves anything in this regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I know he has played NT, which IMO he is undersized for, and he has played 4-3 DT, but he has only had a handful of plays at DE in either a 3-4 or 4-3. I don't know how this proves anything in this regard. Williams has been successful at positions that MANY people said he didnt "fit". It's not just that he has played NT while being "undersized", but also that he has played it WELL. I dont ever recall him playing a 4-3 DE, but I might have missed those couple of plays, I know he has almost always lined up inside. Good players are good players. Yes there are some different intricacies and assignments between a 3-4 DE, a 4-3 DT, and an NT, but Williams has been a force no matter where he plays. Ballers are ballers. Get the best guys on the field and tell them to go to work. I dont know what you have seen from him that makes you think he CANT simply slide over a few feet and be just as effective?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) He is fast, strong, smart and at 295'ish is the right size to have maximum versatility at any line position. Reality is with his talent, a smart DC would move him around a lot in formations. Edited February 10, 2011 by Joe_the_6_pack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If his skill set translates, he should be moved to DE. Stroud will likely be cut and can't play DE. Carrington has potential and Edwards is likely to return. We then need to add a large NT like Shaun Rogers or other massive size NT. 350 lbs of run stuffing I agree 99%. The 1% I do not agree with is Shaun Rogers. He is a POS (Sam Adams light). The funny (or distressing) part is, as soon as Gailey was announced HC, he says he's switching to the 3-4. Well, if you're serious about that, the very first place you start is at NT. And, there ain't a 3-4 NFL defense worth a schitt that doesn't have a massive presence at NT. What do the Bills do? Go with a pair of 310 lb. dudes. Result... 8 200 yd. rushing games. It got so bad, they didn't even know WTF they were week in and week out... 3-4 or 4-3. Well, if you can't decide definitively, you're neither... and it looked that way. Williams at DE in a 3-4? I don't know. I hope so. He has leverage, but he'll be matching up with LTs that have long arms that can keep him off guard. My gut feeling is that he cannot be effective at any position within a 3-4. However, a 4-3 defense (like the one Indy plays) I think he'd be in his element and could become an all pro (and not just a 2nd teamer like this year). Bill Polian could make a sweet deal with Buddy for Williams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Williams is a powerful, disruptive lineman. He's going to fit best in a one-gap role, which isn't a traditional NT in a 3-4 front, but depending on how you use the DEs and ILBs, it's not impossible. I think a one-gap end (3-tech, I believe) is going to be the strongest position to maximize his skills, but that would require a 0-tech NT next to him. Troup could be the guy: rookies aren't great at manning DL spots, given how much strength you gain in your first few years in an NFL program. We'll see how Troup does this year. Carrington, outside, can play the 5-tech if he also surges forward this year. He has shown flashes. Edwards woud be best spelling Williams in this, but we're otherwise very light on depth in a 3-4 front. Dareus as a starting 5-technique would be enormous for this line, letting Carrington drop down to a supporting role, and only forcing us to rely on a developing Troup to secure the front line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Williams at DE in a 3-4? I don't know. I hope so. He has leverage, but he'll be matching up with LTs that have long arms that can keep him off guard. My gut feeling is that he cannot be effective at any position within a 3-4. However, a 4-3 defense (like the one Indy plays) I think he'd be in his element and could become an all pro (and not just a 2nd teamer like this year). Bill Polian could make a sweet deal with Buddy for Williams. I would assume that Williams would play the inside DE that lines up more over the guard/tackle than all the way on the outside edge. He'd have the rush OLB on the outside of him, so effectively he's still kinda a DT. Williams is a powerful, disruptive lineman. He's going to fit best in a one-gap role, which isn't a traditional NT in a 3-4 front, but depending on how you use the DEs and ILBs, it's not impossible. I think a one-gap end (3-tech, I believe) is going to be the strongest position to maximize his skills, but that would require a 0-tech NT next to him. Troup could be the guy: rookies aren't great at manning DL spots, given how much strength you gain in your first few years in an NFL program. We'll see how Troup does this year. Carrington, outside, can play the 5-tech if he also surges forward this year. He has shown flashes. Edwards woud be best spelling Williams in this, but we're otherwise very light on depth in a 3-4 front. Dareus as a starting 5-technique would be enormous for this line, letting Carrington drop down to a supporting role, and only forcing us to rely on a developing Troup to secure the front line. Im not that well versed on the different tech positions of the DL but I think you are saying what I just said. Yes no? So our defensive front would look like: Merriman-Williams-Troup-Dareus as opposed to: Merriman-Edwards-Troup-Williams Do I have that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 (edited) Williams is a powerful, disruptive lineman. He's going to fit best in a one-gap role, which isn't a traditional NT in a 3-4 front, but depending on how you use the DEs and ILBs, it's not impossible. I think a one-gap end (3-tech, I believe) is going to be the strongest position to maximize his skills, but that would require a 0-tech NT next to him. Troup could be the guy: rookies aren't great at manning DL spots, given how much strength you gain in your first few years in an NFL program. We'll see how Troup does this year. Carrington, outside, can play the 5-tech if he also surges forward this year. He has shown flashes. Edwards woud be best spelling Williams in this, but we're otherwise very light on depth in a 3-4 front. Dareus as a starting 5-technique would be enormous for this line, letting Carrington drop down to a supporting role, and only forcing us to rely on a developing Troup to secure the front line. I agree. As Dankenstein pointed out, KW would have a OLB/rusher to the outside of him so he would spend most of his time doing more of a DT job, but he has the wheels and power to run down and control the edge. If you are of the mindset to "draft good players" and they'll fit in any system, then your questions about KW are answered. He's a player. He's going to excel. Besides, we will have a hybrid front depending on the offense we are playing. Troup will be fine this year with a pro-strength coach and year under his belt. He'll come in at around 325 or 330. Plenty big enough. We still need a back up. I don't like Shaun Rodgers for all the reasons mentioned, but what's the harm in bringing him in to spell Troup? I think a line of Dareus, KW, Troup, Edwards, Carrington and Rodgers would be a huge step forward and they will only get better. Edited February 10, 2011 by Green Lightning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 KW is definitely more suited to play 3-4 DE than 3-4 NT. I think the choice was made for him to play NT out of necessity more than anything else. He fit the position better than the other 4-3 DT's on the roster (Stroud, Johnson, McCargo). Maybe he's a little shorter and heavier than the "ideal" 3-4 DE, but if anything that gives him better leverage against the run. Plus he always has the option of losing 5 or so pounds of baby fat to give him a little more pass rushing speed around the edge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FightClub Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 If they sign an NT, it will be Soliai, not Rogers, IMO. I sure hope so myself, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 Williams has been successful at positions that MANY people said he didnt "fit". It's not just that he has played NT while being "undersized", but also that he has played it WELL. I dont ever recall him playing a 4-3 DE, but I might have missed those couple of plays, I know he has almost always lined up inside. Good players are good players. Yes there are some different intricacies and assignments between a 3-4 DE, a 4-3 DT, and an NT, but Williams has been a force no matter where he plays. Ballers are ballers. Get the best guys on the field and tell them to go to work. I dont know what you have seen from him that makes you think he CANT simply slide over a few feet and be just as effective?? Exactly. The defense is a hybrid where Williams will be lining up all over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I would assume that Williams would play the inside DE that lines up more over the guard/tackle than all the way on the outside edge. He'd have the rush OLB on the outside of him, so effectively he's still kinda a DT. Im not that well versed on the different tech positions of the DL but I think you are saying what I just said. Yes no? So our defensive front would look like: Merriman-Williams-Troup-Dareus as opposed to: Merriman-Edwards-Troup-Williams Do I have that correct? That's how I'd understand it. Williams shoots between the tackle and the guard, Merriman runs to the outside of the tackle. The way I understand any of this is mostly from this truly excellent article: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1927873/examining-multiple-defensive-fronts-featuring-kyle-williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That's how I'd understand it. Williams shoots between the tackle and the guard, Merriman runs to the outside of the tackle. The way I understand any of this is mostly from this truly excellent article: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1927873/examining-multiple-defensive-fronts-featuring-kyle-williams Awesome link, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 That's how I'd understand it. Williams shoots between the tackle and the guard, Merriman runs to the outside of the tackle. The way I understand any of this is mostly from this truly excellent article: http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/1/11/1927873/examining-multiple-defensive-fronts-featuring-kyle-williams Great link. Thanks. It really shows how weak we are at DE and LB, regardless of scheme or variation. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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