OldTimer1960 Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 I don't think that there is any debate that IF there is a QB that has a high probability of becoming a top-eschelon NFL QB, then the Bills SHOULD draft him in round 1. HOWEVER, I'm not seeing that. There have been PLENTY of years where there were no top QBs, yet teams still spent high #1 picks on bad QBs because they were the "best" available that year. Yes, if there is a GREAT QB prospect available in this year's draft it is a No Brainer - the Bills should pick him without regard to any other needs they have. Problem is, I don't see any QB that appears to fit that description. If I am right (and I may not be), then it would be ridiculous to pass on good to great prospects at other positions (DL, OLB, WR) in order to "settle" for a maybe-good-maybe-bad QB prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick in hartford Posted February 7, 2011 Share Posted February 7, 2011 729 miles from the Ralph, 1091 from Hartford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chas56 Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 How far away is Rosanne Barr from Angelina Jolie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrFishfinder Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The Bills are light years from the Packers, Steelers, Jets, Ravens, etc., etc. because the Bills can't rush the passer and can't stop the run. Until that is fixed, it doesn't matter if Otto Graham is the QB. True dat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumbalaya Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Only 1 team in the playoffs blew us out twice and that was the Jets. Green Bay blew us out too but we cannot compare the team that lost to them to where we are now becuase Trent started that game. Besides needing to bring up our play against the Jets and the Pats we need to build a defense. Good news we had Dave W. to help out with that side of the ball. All we have to do now is get the players to stop the run and get the turnovers. Im am tired of all the qb talk with our first rd pick we need an impact player with our pick. I will admit I didnt even want Ryan Fitzpatrick signed in the first place I thought he was nothing more then a 3rd stringer at best. But his play this season has one me over completely. Does he turn the ball over sure b ut what QB doesnt especially considering the line he has dealt with. But besides being one of the better stats guy on the last decade he has shown me what i have been waiting to see since Flutie was here a QB who can raise the level of play of his teammates around him. Thats a sign of leadership. His ability to play threw some tough hits. Thats a sign of his toughness. The ability to come back and march the team down the field after trowing a pick or being down by 21 points and playing hard to the last play of the game. Thats a sign of his mental toughness and competiveness. Is he perfect not to most of the fans standards but I like everything he brings to the table and I would like to see what hes capable of starting the season from day 1 of camp and a second year under Gailey. Do we need a qb yes but our luck in drafting QBS wed be wasting 40mil on a guy whos probably never going to be an nfl qb. Lets draft one in the second round and groom him there and get an impact player with the first rd pick. I dont believe we are far off. From being competitive. Provided there is no lock out this season I believe we will see a very satisfying year. SB champs unlikely, playoffs could be likely. Just more of a rant then anything. You make it sound that getting blown out often means we are a good team. The second time the Jets blew our doors off we had Ryan and played the Jets second string. We were 0-8, we went 4-4 after that, we were blown out be several good teams down the stretch. Our scores were respectable for about 6 games in the middle when we won a few and lost in OT. Having a few respectable scores is not really an accurate measure of being a good team. Stopping teams from walking all over you is a measure of a good team. We are not a good team and have a long long long ways to go. It will be about 4 years before you can start sniffing playoffs. Ryan will not get us there. Draft a QB now, let him ride the pine for two years. Than in his third year he will only half suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 In order to get up to the level of GB, we need: - Better QB - Better WRs - Better Offensive Line - Better Defensive Line - Better Linebackers - Better Secondary - Better Coaching - Better Front Office That's all. Too be fair, some of that could be due to accuracy, and some of it could be due to offensive scheme. The Packers run a brilliantly scripted offense that is far more advanced then anything I've seen from the Bills coaches so far. The same can be said of their defense under Dom Capers, in 2 short years he has managed to take that team to one of the best 3-4 defenses in the league, very comparable to exactly what the Steelers and their HoF DC run! The schemes the Packers run are better, the coaches are far superior, the front office drafts better players, and finds better free agents. Fitz isn't consistently accurate enough to be even be considered as good as Rodgers, Brady, Manning or Brees. Perhaps Chan Gailey can get him to improve on his accuracy by working on his grip, footwork, and release....who knows, this could be the year he really improves under Gailey...or not. So yea, basically everything in every aspect needs to improve on the Buffalo Bills to even to start comparing them to Green Bay. The Packers and Bills were almost even a few short years ago with Farve still at the QB position, Buffalo beat GB in Buffalo 24-10 in 2006 with JP Losman at the helm and Jauron in his first year. Everything LOOKED like it was going in the right direction, but nothing was. New Flash, it still isn't going in the right direction, not with RW as President, not with Buddy Nix as GM, not with Chan Gailey as HC, not with Tom Modrak as head scout. This franchise will most likely remain dysfunctional until the team is sold or the owner grows a brain and decides to fire himself, then hires someone that actually knows what they are doing as president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Only 1 team in the playoffs blew us out twice and that was the Jets. Green Bay blew us out too but we cannot compare the team that lost to them to where we are now becuase Trent started that game. Besides needing to bring up our play against the Jets and the Pats we need to build a defense. Good news we had Dave W. to help out with that side of the ball. All we have to do now is get the players to stop the run and get the turnovers. Im am tired of all the qb talk with our first rd pick we need an impact player with our pick. I will admit I didnt even want Ryan Fitzpatrick signed in the first place I thought he was nothing more then a 3rd stringer at best. But his play this season has one me over completely. Does he turn the ball over sure b ut what QB doesnt especially considering the line he has dealt with. But besides being one of the better stats guy on the last decade he has shown me what i have been waiting to see since Flutie was here a QB who can raise the level of play of his teammates around him. Thats a sign of leadership. His ability to play threw some tough hits. Thats a sign of his toughness. The ability to come back and march the team down the field after trowing a pick or being down by 21 points and playing hard to the last play of the game. Thats a sign of his mental toughness and competiveness. Is he perfect not to most of the fans standards but I like everything he brings to the table and I would like to see what hes capable of starting the season from day 1 of camp and a second year under Gailey. Do we need a qb yes but our luck in drafting QBS wed be wasting 40mil on a guy whos probably never going to be an nfl qb. Lets draft one in the second round and groom him there and get an impact player with the first rd pick. I dont believe we are far off. From being competitive. Provided there is no lock out this season I believe we will see a very satisfying year. SB champs unlikely, playoffs could be likely. Just more of a rant then anything. we have the worst d front 7 in the game.that and an OT problem .get those little things fixed and we are a 9-7 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I don't know about "we," but I know what I think about Fitz's potential...Not to say that I'm right...It's just My opinion...But it does fascinate me that so many Bills Fans feel Fitz will get better and not level off, or even worse regress...I'm not saying that he can't get better, because obviously it's a possibility...But the Guy has had 36 NFL Starts...That's 2 1/4 Full Seasons...He took a big leap in 2010 no question...But he's going to have to take a leap equally as big to start being mentioned amongst the NFL's best QB's...And that's what The Bills need him to be...Amongst the best...Let say Top 10... Here's what Fitz will have to do to be a Top 10 QB in 2011... Improve his Completion % by 4.8%... Throw for 653 more Yards... Throw about 5 less INT's... Improve his QB Rating by about 10 Points... Keep everything else he did in 2010 about the same... Now I'm not saying that Fitz can't do these things because obviously he can...Maybe...I'm just not convinced, and I'm DEFINITELY not convinced that Fitz can be a Top 10 calibre QB...So the way I see it, because I value the QB Position SO highly, it's by far the biggest unresolved Need The Bills have...Like I said before I'm not sure they can address it this Off Season...But to me it's still #1 by a mile...Hope that explains where I'm coming from on all this... I completely agree with everything you, NoSaint, and JohnC have written about the importance of a franchise QB. Each of you has made very solid contributions to this thread! As for Fitzpatrick: he does a lot of things well. He plays hurt. He's excellent at reading defenses before the snap. He senses pressure and gets rid of the ball in a hurry. He moves around in the pocket. He's a good leader. What he does not do is throw the ball accurately, at least not consistently. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any QB who suffered major accuracy issues this late into his career who went on to be a consistently accurate passer. So I don't think we're likely to see much improvement from Fitz either--at least not in terms of his accuracy. As for whether we're likely to see substantial improvement from Fitz in other areas: I don't think we will. He does most other things so well that there just isn't room for substantial improvement. His lack of accuracy is the only thing holding him back, but it's holding him back a lot. And it's not going to go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 I just don't get how Bills fans, after watching elite quarterbacks lead their teams, often depleted, to championship after championship still rail against the utterly obvious notion that the Bills need to improve their qb play at all costs. Because the same Bills fans understand that football is a team sport, and that a fantastic quarterback alone will not lead the team to championship after championship without high-quality line play on both sides of the ball. In other words, we think the QB play could be improved but NOT AT ALL COSTS, and that a better QB will be hard to measure by any objective metric until there is a better line in front of him, a quality TE, and a defense that can make the stop and get the ball back. Exhibit A: Tampa. Deberg (servicable starter), draft Young, draft Testeverde, and stay bad for a decade. Why? no defense, no OL I completely agree with everything you, NoSaint, and JohnC have written about the importance of a franchise QB. Each of you has made very solid contributions to this thread! As for Fitzpatrick: he does a lot of things well. He plays hurt. He's excellent at reading defenses before the snap. He senses pressure and gets rid of the ball in a hurry. He moves around in the pocket. He's a good leader. What he does not do is throw the ball accurately, at least not consistently. Off the top of my head, I can't think of any QB who suffered major accuracy issues this late into his career who went on to be a consistently accurate passer. So I don't think we're likely to see much improvement from Fitz either--at least not in terms of his accuracy. As for whether we're likely to see substantial improvement from Fitz in other areas: I don't think we will. He does most other things so well that there just isn't room for substantial improvement. His lack of accuracy is the only thing holding him back, but it's holding him back a lot. And it's not going to go away. Edwards, you make a lot of good points as does NoSaint. I would tend to agree Fitz is unlikely to break the top 10 at QB. I hope you would agree, he doesn't have to for us to make the playoffs. The thing that puzzles me about Fitz is why Gailey says Fitz has accuracy, when so many Bills fans say he does not. Any idea? Is Gailey just blowing smoke? Misguided? We see more than he does? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 The Bills are light years from the Packers, Steelers, Jets, Ravens, etc., etc. because the Bills can't rush the passer and can't stop the run. Until that is fixed, it doesn't matter if Otto Graham is the QB. If I may quote Meatloaf ... "you took the words right out of my mouth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted February 8, 2011 Share Posted February 8, 2011 Because the same Bills fans understand that football is a team sport, and that a fantastic quarterback alone will not lead the team to championship after championship without high-quality line play on both sides of the ball. In other words, we think the QB play could be improved but NOT AT ALL COSTS, and that a better QB will be hard to measure by any objective metric until there is a better line in front of him, a quality TE, and a defense that can make the stop and get the ball back. Exhibit A: Tampa. Deberg (servicable starter), draft Young, draft Testeverde, and stay bad for a decade. Why? no defense, no OL Edwards, you make a lot of good points as does NoSaint. I would tend to agree Fitz is unlikely to break the top 10 at QB. I hope you would agree, he doesn't have to for us to make the playoffs. The thing that puzzles me about Fitz is why Gailey says Fitz has accuracy, when so many Bills fans say he does not. Any idea? Is Gailey just blowing smoke? Misguided? We see more than he does? What? I agree that if the Bills improve enough in other areas that Fitz is good enough to take us to the playoffs. But that's not really the point. We need to be thinking about what we have to build to have a Super Bowl winner, and Fitz as our starting QB doesn't fit into that picture. If you know you're going to need a QB upgrade before you can win the Super Bowl, you need to take advantage of any opportunity to get that franchise QB that comes your way. It would be foolish to pass up a franchise QB opportunity just because other problems remain unsolved. A team misguided enough to do that is very, very unlikely to have another chance to add a franchise QB for many years to come. As for Tampa Bay: any time you draft a Hall of Fame QB like Steve Young, it's impossible to reasonably fault that decision. Once you have that franchise QB, you then have to give him a good (or at least respectable) OL. This, Tampa Bay did not have and made no effort to provide. Instead they squandered the first overall pick on Bo Jackson; whose rights they forfeited after he refused to sign. (The following year, the Raiders drafted him in the seventh round, and managed to sign him by not requiring him to miss any baseball.) Other than Bo Jackson, nearly all the Bucs' early picks were used on defensive players. None were used on offensive linemen even though Young was getting killed. The Bucs' organization was harmed by very bad drafting, lack of sensitivity/social awareness when it came to the Bo Jackson situation, bad coaching, and by its wanton and inexcusable neglect of the OL. Drafting Steve Young and then following it up with all that is like getting a pretty girl's phone number (a good thing) and then following it up by leaving 100 messages on her machine. The idea isn't to stop drafting Hall of Fame quarterbacks or stop getting pretty girls' phone numbers. But you can't afford to be a complete idiot after you do one or the other of those things. That point seems to have escaped the attention of the Bucs' front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob in STL Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Only 1 team in the playoffs blew us out twice and that was the Jets. Green Bay blew us out too but we cannot compare the team that lost to them to where we are now becuase Trent started that game. Besides needing to bring up our play against the Jets and the Pats we need to build a defense. Good news we had Dave W. to help out with that side of the ball. All we have to do now is get the players to stop the run and get the turnovers. Im am tired of all the qb talk with our first rd pick we need an impact player with our pick. I will admit I didnt even want Ryan Fitzpatrick signed in the first place I thought he was nothing more then a 3rd stringer at best. But his play this season has one me over completely. Does he turn the ball over sure b ut what QB doesnt especially considering the line he has dealt with. But besides being one of the better stats guy on the last decade he has shown me what i have been waiting to see since Flutie was here a QB who can raise the level of play of his teammates around him. Thats a sign of leadership. His ability to play threw some tough hits. Thats a sign of his toughness. The ability to come back and march the team down the field after trowing a pick or being down by 21 points and playing hard to the last play of the game. Thats a sign of his mental toughness and competiveness. Is he perfect not to most of the fans standards but I like everything he brings to the table and I would like to see what hes capable of starting the season from day 1 of camp and a second year under Gailey. Do we need a qb yes but our luck in drafting QBS wed be wasting 40mil on a guy whos probably never going to be an nfl qb. Lets draft one in the second round and groom him there and get an impact player with the first rd pick. I dont believe we are far off. From being competitive. Provided there is no lock out this season I believe we will see a very satisfying year. SB champs unlikely, playoffs could be likely. Just more of a rant then anything. We are 745 miles from Green Bay by car, much less if we fly. To beat them in football we will need better blockers and tacklers. That is what we should be drafting. Edited February 9, 2011 by Bob in STL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted February 9, 2011 Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) Because the same Bills fans understand that football is a team sport, and that a fantastic quarterback alone will not lead the team to championship after championship without high-quality line play on both sides of the ball. In other words, we think the QB play could be improved but NOT AT ALL COSTS, and that a better QB will be hard to measure by any objective metric until there is a better line in front of him, a quality TE, and a defense that can make the stop and get the ball back. Exhibit A: Tampa. Deberg (serviceable starter), draft Young, draft Testeverde, and stay bad for a decade. Why? no defense, no OL Edwards, you make a lot of good points as does NoSaint. I would tend to agree Fitz is unlikely to break the top 10 at QB. I hope you would agree, he doesn't have to for us to make the playoffs. The thing that puzzles me about Fitz is why Gailey says Fitz has accuracy, when so many Bills fans say he does not. Any idea? Is Gailey just blowing smoke? Misguided? We see more than he does? What? First off, Chan Gailey is nothing more then a Dick Jauron clone in the fact that he only improved one area of the team, the passing offense! The running game with Marshawn Lynch, Fred Jackson and supposed new super star RB CJ Spiller got worse. The defense and special teams also went downhill with new coaches and some new players. Second, Chan Gailey showed that he can't work his magic on every QB when he wasted an entire off season, preseason and 2 regular season games on Trent Edwards, only to cut the guy and get nothing for him. Not to mention that Brian Brohm looked horrid in the only game he started while Fitz was injured. Third, Fitz is an accurate QB most of the time...his problem is that he is a gunslinger like Jay Cutler, Brett Favre, and while he can make big plays he also makes mistakes while trying to make those big plays. Considering the supporting cast surrounding Fitz last season in coaches and players... I'd say his play was remarkable in some games! Fitz does have an accuracy problem tho, he is wildly inconsistent at times...there is no getting around that fact, the Bills have a QB they can utilize while they upgrade other areas of the team. Fitz isn't, nor ever will be a "franchise QB". Sometimes its OK to settle for Trent Dilfer for now! The Bills need to upgrade so much on offense from my view, both tackle positions at the very least. Bell is adequate against average teams but shows he can't do his job when its crunch time against a good opponent. Wood and levrite might make it to starter on some of this years playoff teams, most other Bills players wouldn't even make their rosters. The Bills traded away Marshawn Lynch, guess what....they need a RB! Jackson is older and really not suited to carry a full NFL RB load, neither is the smaller Spiller who fails at blocking. The Bills still don't know if Shawn Nelson can do the job at TE or if they have enough depth at WR Marcus Easley who didn't play at all last season. The Bills should go DE-DT-LB with that #3 overall, I just hope they get lucky and pick a decent player. Edited February 9, 2011 by Harvey lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts