sllib olaffub Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 This is venting, but it is also how I've come to see it this year. The Buffalo Bills don't look like they're being run with the sole purpose of winning. Yet, in some ways they also don't appear to be setting themselves up for the future, entirely, either. It's troubling. On the one hand, not finding replacements for the O-line and QB can only be excused one way - that is, if Nix thought 2011 was the year to get the franchise QB and fix the line, then I can understand that. But to suggest they are doing everything in their power to win now would be a lie - and so we should be seeing the Bills prepare for next year by seeing the young guys get a chance to prove themselves. There is just no excuse to walk away from this season with Brohm on the roster unless he's proven he can play. If he isn't good enough to upgrade what we've been seeing then he's not good enough to play at all in the NFL. And if he is good, then why aren't we seeing him get a shot? We know what we have with Fitz and Edwards! And if it's the O-line, that it's just too bad to put a young QB out there behind, then what does that say about our staff? Even the audience knew how bad it was, yet they did nothing! If that isn't trying to lose, I don't know what is. The QB position is the one position in the NFL that can make a team, the one position worth losing a season over to get a star at. Once we have a star QB then there is no reason we can't find quality starters for other positions in F.A. If we had Peyton Manning, don't tell me they couldn't have traded for a legit LT and an upgrade T or C. Just imagine - three spots and our whole offense would be different, and we could be 2-0 instead of 0-2. I guess I'm just saying it's getting real hard to watch these guys anymore, because they don't appear to be playing to win now, and I don't trust the organization, and especially Wilson, enough to believe they're going to go all in when they get their franchise QB. This is the NFL. If a team isn't legitimately capable of winning each week and any given year, then we are doomed as a fanbase, because we just don't have a lot of competitive talent. Next season will be when Nix and Gailey prove what they are made of, but it's just getting really hard to keep saying that every three or four years. Anyone else think we're playing for draft position next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Anyone else think we're playing for draft position next year? No, it's not possible. These players and coaches are working for their lives. It's the highest level of sports. There's no such thing as tanking it. The idea of lose-on-purpose-now to get-draft-picks-later thing is a myth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharper802 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 No, it's not possible. These players and coaches are working for their lives. It's the highest level of sports. There's no such thing as tanking it. The idea of lose-on-purpose-now to get-draft-picks-later thing is a myth! Agreed. Ask any team. No team wants the first overall pick and the salary/signing bonus that goes with it. They would all trade down if they could. If Luck does not come out I am sure the Bills want no part of the first overall pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The attendance at RWS in November-December will tell the story whether the people think this team is committed. They've already lost 11k season tickets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The GM looks to fix things long term, but if someone pops up that can speed the process up, you try to fit it under the cap. They try to win each game, but don't have the talent to compete. The people that talk up Roscoe Parrish's talent are a joke, just like he is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The GM looks to fix things long term, but if someone pops up that can speed the process up, you try to fit it under the cap. They try to win each game, but don't have the talent to compete. The people that talk up Roscoe Parrish's talent are a joke, just like he is Why single out Roscoe Parrish? Is he the key to their problems? Insufficient punt return yardage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Why single out Roscoe Parrish? Is he the key to their problems? Insufficient punt return yardage? He whined about not playing on offense. He doesn't play on offense when he is out there. He was a wasted pick, just like Maybin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 2 games. TWO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garbag3man Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 No, it's not possible. These players and coaches are working for their lives. It's the highest level of sports. There's no such thing as tanking it. The idea of lose-on-purpose-now to get-draft-picks-later thing is a myth! With possibly the sole exception of the Pittsburg Penguins, I will agree with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Agreed. Ask any team. No team wants the first overall pick and the salary/signing bonus that goes with it. They would all trade down if they could. If Luck does not come out I am sure the Bills want no part of the first overall pick. Indianapolis disagrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewildrabbit Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 This is venting, but it is also how I've come to see it this year. The Buffalo Bills don't look like they're being run with the sole purpose of winning. Yet, in some ways they also don't appear to be setting themselves up for the future, entirely, either. It's troubling. On the one hand, not finding replacements for the O-line and QB can only be excused one way - that is, if Nix thought 2011 was the year to get the franchise QB and fix the line, then I can understand that. But to suggest they are doing everything in their power to win now would be a lie - and so we should be seeing the Bills prepare for next year by seeing the young guys get a chance to prove themselves. There is just no excuse to walk away from this season with Brohm on the roster unless he's proven he can play. If he isn't good enough to upgrade what we've been seeing then he's not good enough to play at all in the NFL. And if he is good, then why aren't we seeing him get a shot? We know what we have with Fitz and Edwards! And if it's the O-line, that it's just too bad to put a young QB out there behind, then what does that say about our staff? Even the audience knew how bad it was, yet they did nothing! If that isn't trying to lose, I don't know what is. The QB position is the one position in the NFL that can make a team, the one position worth losing a season over to get a star at. Once we have a star QB then there is no reason we can't find quality starters for other positions in F.A. If we had Peyton Manning, don't tell me they couldn't have traded for a legit LT and an upgrade T or C. Just imagine - three spots and our whole offense would be different, and we could be 2-0 instead of 0-2. I guess I'm just saying it's getting real hard to watch these guys anymore, because they don't appear to be playing to win now, and I don't trust the organization, and especially Wilson, enough to believe they're going to go all in when they get their franchise QB. This is the NFL. If a team isn't legitimately capable of winning each week and any given year, then we are doomed as a fanbase, because we just don't have a lot of competitive talent. Next season will be when Nix and Gailey prove what they are made of, but it's just getting really hard to keep saying that every three or four years. Anyone else think we're playing for draft position next year? I think the new GM and HC are sincerely doing what they think is best to win game, my take is that there are under lying problems. If you recall the Bills did try and go after Donovan McNabb so they realize that the QB position needs an upgrade, no telling who would have been cut if they had signed him. I suspect it would have been Fitz simply because they graded Edwards higher to begin with, plus he is making much more then Edwards or Brohm Someone somewhere is behind some of the moves as there were simply so many offensive positions that needed an upgrade, perhaps its as simple as the new GM and HC needed to see if the current players on the roster could be coached up before drafting more expensive versions.The Bills really wanted Trent Edwards to succeed because he is in a contract year and they needed to find out if he was worth keeping as he comes cheap. Most of the posters already knew the team needed better quality players at the starting WR-QB-RT-LT positions, these same posters were baffled when the Bills didn't pursue Jammal Brown a pro bowl RT from the Saints, who the Redskins obtained for a 3rd rd draft pick. When they let TO go they let go the leading receiver on the team last season, along with 6 million a year Most fans were also baffled as to why the Bills didn't draft Jimmy Clausen or go after a LT in the draft. Clearly someone at OBD graded the current players and made some evaluations and then presented them to the GM / HC, I really hope they fire that guy because he scrood the pooch with his lack of vision in player ability... Cornell Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Clearly someone at OBD graded the current players and made some evaluations and then presented them to the GM / HC, I really hope they fire that guy because he scrood the pooch with his lack of vision in player ability... Cornell Green John Guy already met the hatchet man though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB of Long Island Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 2 games. TWO. Did you watch said 2 games? We are the worst offense in the NFL. After watching Ohio State play in person, I would give the Bills 10 points agains them and they would still LOSE!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
....lybob Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 The Bills are a bad team on merit, no one is tanking games- that said, there is a difference or at least should be between a team that is taking a kick at the super-bowl or at least the play-offs and a team that is in total rebuilding mode- to me it would make sense for a team like Minnesota to trade a little of the future for players that can help them now but for a team like the Bills who need to find a group of core players to build around adding vets on the downside of their careers makes little sense. That's why the Bills are at times unfathomable to me, as an example the T.O. pick up then tearing our Oline apart- Picking up T.O. could make sense or tearing our Oline apart and starting fresh could make sense but doing both doesn't make a lick of sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_phelaN1 Posted September 24, 2010 Share Posted September 24, 2010 Did you watch said 2 games? We are the worst offense in the NFL. After watching Ohio State play in person, I would give the Bills 10 points agains them and they would still LOSE!!!! No college team could ever beat a professional team. They would be manhandled all over the field. Don't be an idiot just in an attempt to be funny. You are better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe Northern Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 FACT: The Bills GM search came down to 2 guys: John Guy and Buddy Nix. John Guy was arguably the worst pro personnel director in NFL history. If he loved a guy, you could be pretty sure that player sucked. Buddy Nix was a washed up area scout with good instincts for talent but no experience running a draft, negotiating contracts, or assembling an overall roster. Isn't that all you really need to know about this franchise's commitment to winning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quester74 Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 No, it's not possible. These players and coaches are working for their lives. It's the highest level of sports. There's no such thing as tanking it. The idea of lose-on-purpose-now to get-draft-picks-later thing is a myth! If teams don't lose on purpose at the highest level.. Why did the NBA implement it's Lottery system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 If teams don't lose on purpose at the highest level.. Why did the NBA implement it's Lottery system? Not all farm franchises are created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sllib olaffub Posted September 25, 2010 Author Share Posted September 25, 2010 Thanks, you guys, for responding. I see some wisdom in the comments. Yes, it is only two weeks in. And yes, I do scratch my head at some real contradictory moves made by the organization. Starting Fitz over Brohm, for one, makes me wonder. I've noted on other posts that it just comes down to swallowing the losing so they can get to the winning later on. Tough medicine - that kind of thing. To me, it seems reasonable to say that in rebuild mode you lose quite a bit and work your way up to a winning franchise. But, that is very similar to saying you tank it a few years until you get the drafted players in there to make it work. The only difference is volition. On the one hand you have a staff inheriting a bad team and knowing it will take a bad season to get into position to get the good QB, and on the other hand you have a team playing it's butt off to win regardless. I've thought about it enough to know that what really bothers me is that it seems very likely, with the way Chris Brown and Gailey and Nix are talking, that this team might look bad for a few more years. They say things like, "it wont happen overnight. It's a process that will take a few years." you know what I mean. You don't hear some coaches talk that way, though - guys like Shanahan, who took over a redskins team that wasn't much better than ours, and they have superbowl aspirations. So, it boils down to Our Team won't go all in, it seems, but will try to get better - with an apparent self imposed limitation - year to year and hope we gain more good players than we manage to lose. I'm resigned to it. I've tried to take a real interest in other teams and I just can't. So, here's to hoping it does turn around in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Maybe putting Fitz in, Gailey gets a better chance to evaluate his O-Line and receivers. The best communicator might have just been picked to be the field general. No doubt Gailey knows that Fitz doesn't have the innate physical skills to be the future of the team at QB, but he probably is heads and tails above Brohm right now in his ability to communicate with his Center, which could make all the difference in those extra three seconds of time back there in the pocket to get the ball to his first or second choice WRs....I dunno, the thought just popped into my head so I spewed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 Don't judge the season based on 2 games. If they stink this bad in late November, okay. But I still think it's early and the staff is finding out what personnel does well in game conditions. It'll take 1 win for optimism to explode around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted September 25, 2010 Share Posted September 25, 2010 FACT: The Bills GM search came down to 2 guys: John Guy and Buddy Nix. John Guy was arguably the worst pro personnel director in NFL history. If he loved a guy, you could be pretty sure that player sucked. Buddy Nix was a washed up area scout with good instincts for talent but no experience running a draft, negotiating contracts, or assembling an overall roster. Isn't that all you really need to know about this franchise's commitment to winning? I think Guy was in over his head, but there's interference all over this organization. Few even know who Jim Overdorf, with fewer knowing what he does. He happens to be Senior VP of Football Administration. I'm not clear how that role fits in with the GM (of Football I might add), Pro Personnel Director (Whaley) and College Scouting Director (Modrak). I have read that Overdorf has made personnel moves without even notifying the HC. Nix was a national scout and I'm not about to take away from his experience. He wouldn't have lasted in the NFL from 1993-2008 with two organizations if he wasn't good. But to say that Nix and Gailey who both were retired are going to right the ship is a lot to ask. And part of that is the interference they receive from RW, Littman, and Overdorf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Don't judge the season based on 2 games. If they stink this bad in late November, okay. But I still think it's early and the staff is finding out what personnel does well in game conditions. It'll take 1 win for optimism to explode around here. Based on your optimistic view bolded above, and some of the threads I just read, I'd say not even 1 win is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Maybe putting Fitz in, Gailey gets a better chance to evaluate his O-Line and receivers. The best communicator might have just been picked to be the field general. No doubt Gailey knows that Fitz doesn't have the innate physical skills to be the future of the team at QB, but he probably is heads and tails above Brohm right now in his ability to communicate with his Center, which could make all the difference in those extra three seconds of time back there in the pocket to get the ball to his first or second choice WRs....I dunno, the thought just popped into my head so I spewed it. I think you are right and I think Trent's ability got him another chance. He does have ability just not on game day, I think Gaily really tried to build up his confidence and give him a chance to prove everyone wrong. If TE would have succeeded we wouldn't have to be looking at drafting a QB next yr. Honestly I think many on this team are getting a tryout so we see what we have to do. I do think that they are trying to win now even while they are doing that, you have to build off what you have. You have to build a winning attitude before anything. You have to expect to win, Gailey is right about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Why single out Roscoe Parrish? Is he the key to their problems? Insufficient punt return yardage? Yes the comment of im not used right and I should be a star by name kinda made me laugh, then made me sick. Dude you are kidding yourself although you worked the Bills for a nice paycheck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paup 1995MVP Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Don't judge the season based on 2 games. If they stink this bad in late November, okay. But I still think it's early and the staff is finding out what personnel does well in game conditions. It'll take 1 win for optimism to explode around here. Nix and Gailey have given me absolutely no confidence that they have any clue in evaluating talent on this team and around the league. They have brought in NOONE to upgrade the roster at any position. We say we want to build thru the draft but not ONE player from this years draft is even contributing yet. That is not acceptable when you refuse to bring in any above average players in free agency. I am absolutely astounded by how inadequate our roster is from top to bottom other than our Punter and Kicker. The rest of it makes no sense. Would any other team in the NFL play Chris Kelsay at outside linebacker, and more specifically have him cover a speed tight end down the field? And would any other team draft a RB number 9 when we already have two very good ones? Not even Al Davis would do that. At least by benching Trent, it should give some of our offensive players a chance to show how they can play. Because with Trent playing, nothing was going to click. (And btw, why is Trent still on the roster?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr1 Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 The team is run in austerity every year. Cheap GM, cheap QB, cheat coach. This is what you get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uforesircher Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 This is venting, but it is also how I've come to see it this year. The Buffalo Bills don't look like they're being run with the sole purpose of winning. Yet, in some ways they also don't appear to be setting themselves up for the future, entirely, either. It's troubling. On the one hand, not finding replacements for the O-line and QB can only be excused one way - that is, if Nix thought 2011 was the year to get the franchise QB and fix the line, then I can understand that. But to suggest they are doing everything in their power to win now would be a lie - and so we should be seeing the Bills prepare for next year by seeing the young guys get a chance to prove themselves. There is just no excuse to walk away from this season with Brohm on the roster unless he's proven he can play. If he isn't good enough to upgrade what we've been seeing then he's not good enough to play at all in the NFL. And if he is good, then why aren't we seeing him get a shot? We know what we have with Fitz and Edwards! And if it's the O-line, that it's just too bad to put a young QB out there behind, then what does that say about our staff? Even the audience knew how bad it was, yet they did nothing! If that isn't trying to lose, I don't know what is. The QB position is the one position in the NFL that can make a team, the one position worth losing a season over to get a star at. Once we have a star QB then there is no reason we can't find quality starters for other positions in F.A. If we had Peyton Manning, don't tell me they couldn't have traded for a legit LT and an upgrade T or C. Just imagine - three spots and our whole offense would be different, and we could be 2-0 instead of 0-2. I guess I'm just saying it's getting real hard to watch these guys anymore, because they don't appear to be playing to win now, and I don't trust the organization, and especially Wilson, enough to believe they're going to go all in when they get their franchise QB. This is the NFL. If a team isn't legitimately capable of winning each week and any given year, then we are doomed as a fanbase, because we just don't have a lot of competitive talent. Next season will be when Nix and Gailey prove what they are made of, but it's just getting really hard to keep saying that every three or four years. Anyone else think we're playing for draft position next year? no . . . no . . . no. . . i do not subscribe to your point of view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 The attendance at RWS in November-December will tell the story whether the people think this team is committed. They've already lost 11k season tickets. It's worst than that. Outside of WNY, nobody cares about the Bills. RW is just going through the motions collecting his revenue share without really contributing to the NFL. Sure, he fields a team, but not one that is competitive or earns any national television revenue. That is where the real money is, not in local ticket sales. The Bills can't afford to pay Lee Evans $9 million a year based only on your $60 ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 It's worst than that. Outside of WNY, nobody cares about the Bills. RW is just going through the motions collecting his revenue share without really contributing to the NFL. Sure, he fields a team, but not one that is competitive or earns any national television revenue. That is where the real money is, not in local ticket sales. The Bills can't afford to pay Lee Evans $9 million a year based only on your $60 ticket. Every team in the NFL receives 1/32nd of the TV contract revenue. It amounts to I believe about 90M per season, perhaps more. Revenue sharing is a small piece when compared to TV money. No one ever said player salaries were covered by ticket revenue. After all, home teams fork over 40% of ticket revenue to the opposing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 The attendance at RWS in November-December will tell the story whether the people think this team is committed. They've already lost 11k season tickets. http://www.buffalonews.com/city/columns/donn-esmonde/article201681.ece The above link captures the feeling held by many people. The owner has crushed the life out of this franchise and its fanbase. As long as the profit margin is maintained the long held business model will be adhered to. There is no doubt that as the season advances there will be a precipitous decline in tickets sold and attendance at the home games. Many people who already have tickets will prefer to not attend or will just give away the tickets. The owner hustled the Rogers group out of a lot of money for the privilege of playing games in Toronto. Because the product is so dismal the owner killed that potential market. It won't be long before our shyster owner will be complaining that the Buffalo market can't sustain a NFL team. When you hear those wispers coming out of OBD then you will know for sure what the real plans are for this franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Geez, I hope all sharp objects have been removed from his house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 http://www.buffalonews.com/city/columns/donn-esmonde/article201681.ece The above link captures the feeling held by many people. The owner has crushed the life out of this franchise and its fanbase. As long as the profit margin is maintained the long held business model will be adhered to. There is no doubt that as the season advances there will be a precipitous decline in tickets sold and attendance at the home games. Many people who already have tickets will prefer to not attend or will just give away the tickets. The owner hustled the Rogers group out of a lot of money for the privilege of playing games in Toronto. Because the product is so dismal the owner killed that potential market. It won't be long before our shyster owner will be complaining that the Buffalo market can't sustain a NFL team. When you hear those wispers coming out of OBD then you will know for sure what the real plans are for this franchise. Ralph's primary legacy is keeping the Bills in Buffalo. He's not going to live forever and I don't see him trying to lead his team to a new "promise land" at this point. That's all water under the bridge. Still, that isn't going to prevent him from keeping the franchise's debt low and term contracts short. It gives new ownership groups the most options and thus keeps the value of the asset higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Ralph's primary legacy is keeping the Bills in Buffalo. He's not going to live forever and I don't see him trying to lead his team to a new "promise land" at this point. That's all water under the bridge. Still, that isn't going to prevent him from keeping the franchise's debt low and term contracts short. It gives new ownership groups the most options and thus keeps the value of the asset higher. There is no doubt that the Bills make a lot of decisions based on money. That, however, is not the root of their failure. The Bills have historically floundered because those hired to make the football decisions were very inept. Making sound draft picks has little to do with money and more to do with the caliber of the scouting department and those making the decisions. There are teams such as Pitts, Baltimore and Green Bay who are very fiscally responsible. Yet, they are able to run a successful operation on the field and on the balance sheet. The problems with the Bills starts with its owner and the management team he has assembled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGB Posted September 26, 2010 Share Posted September 26, 2010 Every team in the NFL receives 1/32nd of the TV contract revenue. It amounts to I believe about 90M per season, perhaps more. Revenue sharing is a small piece when compared to TV money. No one ever said player salaries were covered by ticket revenue. After all, home teams fork over 40% of ticket revenue to the opposing team. $3 million dollars for 30 second commercials in the SB? Whatever that 1/32 is, the Bills have not seemed to have earned it and do not have a big TV market draw. The addition of TO and Spiller were stopgap measures taken to give marketing people something to work with, but that has not worked too well either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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