Green Lightning Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Some good thoughts pro and con listed here, but I'm lining up with giving these guys the benefit of the doubt. Some Points: 1) To those who assail Chan as not being successful enough as a coach, check out the record of Marv Levy when he was hired by Buffalo. This board would be all over that pick as well and that turned out pretty well. 2) Nix is taking a big step up to be GM. Donahoe took a lateral step and puked it up. Nix has impressed me by: a) Doing what he says he's going to do. b) Acutually having a plan and hiring a coach who buys into his plan, and c) Showing patience in the face of media cries of woe and the gnashing of TSW posters teeth. He's immune to all that and is not wavering from his path. The LT and OL situation is a perfect example. He wants to see the guys he has first before he acts - period. That's what he's going to do. You make think it's a big gamble, but is it really? If these guys don't pan out he's got the next few years of drafts and cap space to fix it. If it works - bingo, he can concentrate on other needs. That is patience and the way he's going to do business. Nix knows he's in for a rebuild and it's not going to be done in one year. 3) Both Buddy and Chan are singing a song I really like - we need to be tougher, stronger, bigger and meaner. After years of watching little fast guys get flat out pushed around in the 4th quarter, I am very happy to see the change. These are football guys and maybe old school, but that's what this team needs. Practice in pads and hit. Train like pros. Compete for your job and dominate your opposition in a one on one battle. That's what the damn game is about and we have two guys committed to that. 4) Show me the baby. I think these guys get it. Win. We all know we are in a rebuild, but you don't hear the FO equivicate and talk about growing pains. They are instillling in their players the the expectation is to compete, improve, grow and to win. They are not giving their players any wiggle room and they are not giving themselves any as well. THe expectation is to improve and win. What's not to like? So many of you will second guess and point to all the possibililties of failure. And those do exist. But the fact is Buddy and Chan are here - will be for the next 3-4 years and they are going to do business the way they feel it will take to build a winner. Buddy doesn't want to end his career on a down note and go out a loser. Chan knows this is his last shot at HC. They are both serious as a heart attack and I, for one, am looking forward to this ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggins Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I find it really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. They're both old "good ole boys" who seem to be out of touch I was hoping for big changes this offseason, instead we got a washed up coach and other people's trash in free agency, followed up with a poor draft. The franchise is in a rut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. K Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I don't get why everyone is gaga over Cowher. Cowher was a good coach, but he was also with the Steelers for at least 15 years and won only 1 superbowl. Look at Marty Schottenheimer, he if had 15 years on one team, I'm sure he would have won a superbowl as well. I think Cowher would have been a better coach for the Bills, but I would label him as the savior like most Bills fans would have. +1 I've also wondered about the Cowher worship. Cowher's Steelers lost a lot of playoff games they were supposed to win. I think Bills fandom just likes the idea of a coach with a pugnacious jaw who yells a lot. To a Western New Yorker it's like having your Dad back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Nix- career scout now GM. The guy seems a little crude and unpolished on camera but if he results in better drafts, who cares? Can't blame him for the Gailey hire. No one else really wanted to coach in Buffalo outside Frazier from Minn. Gailey- good offensive coordinator who should improve the offense. Does not appear to have great communication and leadership abilities. Gets credit for taking job no one else wanted. Suspect he can get the bills to 8-8 in a couple of years. I don't expect much else. If the emotionless Jauron can get the team to three 7-9 seasons, Gailey could do at least the same. Gailey will definitely have this team better prepared. The question is does he have the necessary talent on the field to put this team over the hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpl6876 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Some good thoughts pro and con listed here, but I'm lining up with giving these guys the benefit of the doubt. Some Points: 1) To those who assail Chan as not being successful enough as a coach, check out the record of Marv Levy when he was hired by Buffalo. This board would be all over that pick as well and that turned out pretty well. 2) Nix is taking a big step up to be GM. Donahoe took a lateral step and puked it up. Nix has impressed me by: a) Doing what he says he's going to do. b) Acutually having a plan and hiring a coach who buys into his plan, and c) Showing patience in the face of media cries of woe and the gnashing of TSW posters teeth. He's immune to all that and is not wavering from his path. The LT and OL situation is a perfect example. He wants to see the guys he has first before he acts - period. That's what he's going to do. You make think it's a big gamble, but is it really? If these guys don't pan out he's got the next few years of drafts and cap space to fix it. If it works - bingo, he can concentrate on other needs. That is patience and the way he's going to do business. Nix knows he's in for a rebuild and it's not going to be done in one year. 3) Both Buddy and Chan are singing a song I really like - we need to be tougher, stronger, bigger and meaner. After years of watching little fast guys get flat out pushed around in the 4th quarter, I am very happy to see the change. These are football guys and maybe old school, but that's what this team needs. Practice in pads and hit. Train like pros. Compete for your job and dominate your opposition in a one on one battle. That's what the damn game is about and we have two guys committed to that. 4) Show me the baby. I think these guys get it. Win. We all know we are in a rebuild, but you don't hear the FO equivicate and talk about growing pains. They are instillling in their players the the expectation is to compete, improve, grow and to win. They are not giving their players any wiggle room and they are not giving themselves any as well. THe expectation is to improve and win. What's not to like? So many of you will second guess and point to all the possibililties of failure. And those do exist. But the fact is Buddy and Chan are here - will be for the next 3-4 years and they are going to do business the way they feel it will take to build a winner. Buddy doesn't want to end his career on a down note and go out a loser. Chan knows this is his last shot at HC. They are both serious as a heart attack and I, for one, am looking forward to this ride. I enjoyed reading your post because IMO it was filled with optimism and a sense to toughness. I only wish I could agree and share your state of mind and thought process. (1) The Bills version of Chan Gailey is unwritten and time will time. I think valid arguments can be made for liking or disliking him. (2) Fact - Nix is taking a step up. What's in question is whether he will be successful. You talk about him having a plan. Maybe, I am lost because I don't know what that plan is? Can you explain his plan? I am not trying to be a smart ass. (3) I do like the attitude being displayed by Gailey/Nix. But, singing a song is one thing and producing is another. Initially, new regimes always seem to be singing the right song. I need to see results before I get on any Nix/Gailey bandwagon and start singing along with them.. (4) Show me some wins I don't care about any baby. (5) Do you really know what Gailey and Nix are thinking? Of course they want to win just like the rest of guys who were unsuccessful here. I am going to remain skeptical without unjustly criticizing the new regime. What you are saying isn't anything new. It has been said by many after every regime change. I guess with time we will all know how successful Nix/Gailey will be? Until them, the debate will continue with both sides making valid points.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 i dislike a lot - old school gm who may not be able to adapt to the realities of the modern primadonna athelete Actually he did pretty well. He stood firm on any trade options for Marshawn Lynch when the player tried all types of tactics to get traded. He has played his cards firmly with the Schoebel situation. He has not come out opening his mouth like his boss in SD does, but at the same time has kept all the cards in the Bills favor. I think to be able to deal with 2 tricky situations in your first off-season is pretty good. serious prollems entering '10- all new coaches, cant possibly know the real team makeup and capabilities until real games are played for a bit - 4 of the 7 front seven on defense are playing brand new positions, usually for the first time ever as a pro - extremely questionable OLB candidates - huge hole at wr2 and not even close to an obvious heir apparent - no OL depth (im actually not concerned with the starters) when the inevitable injuries hit - no clear starting QB and long odds that any are of the franchise variety - general lack of quality roster talent due to poor drafting in recent years resulting in realistic best guess projection for the '10 season - four wins If you looked at 2/3 of NFL rosters, you will see many of these problems.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 (4)This regime IMO has made some "very questionable decisions" like not addressing the QB and LT position. I am not one to just sit back and say that is OK. Just look at what the Skins did. I think that is a reasonable comparison. (whether the skins are successful is debatable). My point is they did address arguably the two most important positions in football. We are left with "let's wait til next year" and a miracle hope that someone emerges as a success. Yicks.... Here's what you fail to understand, MPL, that is what your empty, shallow shell of of an existence is left with...most people have a lot of other things going on and love the Bills regardless. Also, most people understand that some situations can be addressed right now with a band aid, or you can wait until you can address the problem properly. The Bills have previously tried the method of finding a 'right now' fix and it doesn't work. The best teams stick to their philosophy and don't flail their arms about. I understand that your emotional problems lead you to believe the only way a problem get resolved is to flail wildly for 'something' to happen. Something could happen, but then you're left with a band aid on a gaping wound and everyone sitting applauding like jack*sses that a good move was made and the problem is solved. Then the band aid fails to be the solution and the wound is now infected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpl6876 Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 Here's what you fail to understand, MPL, that is what your empty, shallow shell of of an existence is left with...most people have a lot of other things going on and love the Bills regardless. Also, most people understand that some situations can be addressed right now with a band aid, or you can wait until you can address the problem properly. The Bills have previously tried the method of finding a 'right now' fix and it doesn't work. The best teams stick to their philosophy and don't flail their arms about. I understand that your emotional problems lead you to believe the only way a problem get resolved is to flail wildly for 'something' to happen. Something could happen, but then you're left with a band aid on a gaping wound and everyone sitting applauding like jack*sses that a good move was made and the problem is solved. Then the band aid fails to be the solution and the wound is now infected. Jeremy, your personal attacks are unwarranted and uncalled for. However, I don't take them personally. Your post makes little sense with the exception of "bashing" me. I am not here to get into a pissing contest with you or anyone else. I stand by my original post 100%. Hope you have a nice day. No hard feelings here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I can see how 10 years of failure can bring us to believe it will never get better but for some odd reason I feel different about these guys. I can go into Nix's experience or Gailey being tough but it's more about following a plan & dedicating yourself to that plan. These guys are going to work this team & see where the current people fit in their plan, no reason to trade for any other players until that's over. We might actually sit a better player than we could bring in, so why bother?? Give the boys time, they'll get it right. I'm looking for forward progress. I think the Spiller choice was a risky but very positive and gutsy choice. I think Gailer taking over the offense makes a lot of sense. On the other hand there has been no interest in revamping a poor offensive line nor to add depth to that critical area. The switch to 3-4 was puzzling. Our defense was bad last year because of crippling injuries (a TON of them) and there wasn't much that had to be done to get production out of the defense. Needs on offense on the line and possibly (some of you would say probably or be more adamant about this need) could have been addressed and wasn't. I believe goals should be set and the goal this year should be a better won lost record than last year. However I would go beyond and set a stretch goal of nine wins. Might get it, might not, but we would have set expectations high and hold the coaches accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I find it really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. They're both old "good ole boys" who seem to be out of touch I was hoping for big changes this offseason, instead we got a washed up coach and other people's trash in free agency, followed up with a poor draft. The franchise is in a rut. I know the rule of thumb is 3 years to judge a draft, but can we at least wait until after the preseason to pan it outright? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggins Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I know the rule of thumb is 3 years to judge a draft, but can we at least wait until after the preseason to pan it outright? The players we drafted may turn out to be great players, but they weren't what we needed. That is a 'poor draft'. We have the worst quarterback corps by far in the league; our wide receivers are marginal, so they'll get no help there. Our offensive line is one big question mark with so many guys coming off of injury. These are things that should have been addressed - instead Buddy and Chandler came in and drafted 'their guy' (waterbug - basically a Madden 11 pick) instead of working with what we already had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 The players we drafted may turn out to be great players, but they weren't what we needed. That is a 'poor draft'. We have the worst quarterback corps by far in the league; our wide receivers are marginal, so they'll get no help there. Our offensive line is one big question mark with so many guys coming off of injury. These are things that should have been addressed - instead Buddy and Chandler came in and drafted 'their guy' (waterbug - basically a Madden 11 pick) instead of working with what we already had. I agreed with your Spiller assessment at the time of the draft, and pretty much still do today. But I also have to believe that Nix and Gailey are not stupid and have a 3-4 year plan, and that Spiller fits into that long range plan. I have to believe this because if this is not true and they just went with the "best available" I would have to blow my brains out (overly dramatic? ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggins Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I agreed with your Spiller assessment at the time of the draft, and pretty much still do today. But I also have to believe that Nix and Gailey are not stupid and have a 3-4 year plan, and that Spiller fits into that long range plan. I have to believe this because if this is not true and they just went with the "best available" I would have to blow my brains out (overly dramatic? ). Haha, I keep this in the back of my mind too. I don't want our team to be the laughingstock of the league. But then, you think about it... "Jauron and Co HAD to know what they were doing, right?" I just don't think you can put faith in a front office because they are the front office. From my various jobs and hobbies I've seen that people are put into positions of leadership for all kinds of reasons - who you know, people quit, people are fired, etc. and the person who is put into the position isn't nearly able to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I am willing to give the regime time to turn things around. I am skeptical that they will be successful. Nevertheless, they deserve a chance. Here is the thing I don't understand. I believe too many of you are giving the new regime too much credit and a free pass. I ask the following: (1) How successful has Gailey been as a head coach? Mild success at best. I am not willing to "anoint" him as a savior or offensive magician. To boot, inexperienced offensive coordinator which I don't like... (2) Nix has never been a GM and has had success in San Diego. It is a big step up... (3) Ralph is still the owner. (4)This regime IMO has made some "very questionable decisions" like not addressing the QB and LT position. I am not one to just sit back and say that is OK. Just look at what the Skins did. I think that is a reasonable comparison. (whether the skins are successful is debatable). My point is they did address arguably the two most important positions in football. We are left with "let's wait til next year" and a miracle hope that someone emerges as a success. Yicks.... I believe that the regime has made good decisions like converting to the 3-4, addressing bulk on the defensive side of the ball, tougher conditioning and practices, etc.... Time will tell if this regime is successful or not. For now I cannot pretend like things are all well in Bills land... I think Washington is the perfect mirror franchise this year for the Bills. Living in DC, I get everything Redskins by default. For the past decade, these 2 franchises have been mirror images of the other- with the only difference being 1 team (the Bills) pinch pennies and seek to squeeze their budget, and the other team (the Redskins) overspend vast amounts of money on names and have no concept of how to build a team. The result: both teams have been similar to the other. The Bills had horrible, clueless drafts and GM's. So have the 'Skins. The coaches have been dismal at best for both clubs. Neither team could strike it big in the draft. Nor in free agency. This past offseason will be interesting. Both teams went out and got new GM's. I personally wanted Bruce Allen, but I am happy with Nix. Both teams obtained new coaches. Shanahan is the sizzle, I'm hoping that the comments made by Cowboys owner Jerry Jones might indicate that Gailey is the steak. Both teams has respectable drafts. What will be interesting, is that Washington addressed both its LT position and QB position by trading for Donovan McNabb. They get instantly more credibility for those 2 moves. What have the Bills done in those same 2 weak spots? Nothing. Now, there is still time. IMO, signing Jeff Garcia as a stop-gap for the next 2 seasons would give us instant credibility and dramatically improve our QB position. Trading for a LT like McNeill in San Diego or Flozell Adams in Dallas would help to also strengthen our O-Line while allowing us to find the replacement. If the Bills do nothing for these 2 positions, it will be interesting to see the differences between the 2 clubs this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zona Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I can see how 10 years of failure can bring us to believe it will never get better but for some odd reason I feel different about these guys. I can go into Nix's experience or Gailey being tough but it's more about following a plan & dedicating yourself to that plan. These guys are going to work this team & see where the current people fit in their plan, no reason to trade for any other players until that's over. We might actually sit a better player than we could bring in, so why bother?? Give the boys time, they'll get it right. That is exactly how I feel about it, except i wish to add "i hope" they'll get it right. Give the new guys time to see what we have and what we need. My biggest concern is that they apparently thought we didnt need a Qb, when most of us thought we did. I hope that they got that one right...Maybe edwards was doing what coaches told him to do when he checked down. Maybe this year, Gailey will bring a "gunslinger" type of attitude out of him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 23, 2010 Share Posted July 23, 2010 I find it really hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. They're both old "good ole boys" who seem to be out of touch I was hoping for big changes this offseason, instead we got a washed up coach and other people's trash in free agency, followed up with a poor draft. The franchise is in a rut. Nix was hired by RW. So if you're giving Nix the benefit of the doubt, that means you trust RW to make the right decision AND get lucky with that choice. RW hasn't made a good GM move in forever, so if that means I'm doubtful, so be it. Recent history suggests he doesn't find the right guy, and it extends to HC moves when he re-signed DJ. Bills fans were so happy to finally have a GM with actual honest football personnel experience. What does that say about Nix' predecessors, Levy and Smithers, who were both hired by RW. Not very high of a bar, but it's only the NFL. As for Gailey, there wasn't a single team who wanted him as a HC after his 2nd season as Miami's OC besides GT. And no one even mentioned his name after he was fired in KC by admittedly someone in Todd Haley who wanted offensive control. Just because Marv won games with the greatest modern day GM finding the players doesn't mean lightning will strike twice. The team, for all intent and purpose, is still managed by RW, Littman, and Overdorf. That's the triumvirate, with RW playing the role of Napoleon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I enjoyed reading your post because IMO it was filled with optimism and a sense to toughness. I only wish I could agree and share your state of mind and thought process. (1) The Bills version of Chan Gailey is unwritten and time will time. I think valid arguments can be made for liking or disliking him. (2) Fact - Nix is taking a step up. What's in question is whether he will be successful. You talk about him having a plan. Maybe, I am lost because I don't know what that plan is? Can you explain his plan? I am not trying to be a smart ass. (3) I do like the attitude being displayed by Gailey/Nix. But, singing a song is one thing and producing is another. Initially, new regimes always seem to be singing the right song. I need to see results before I get on any Nix/Gailey bandwagon and start singing along with them.. (4) Show me some wins I don't care about any baby. (5) Do you really know what Gailey and Nix are thinking? Of course they want to win just like the rest of guys who were unsuccessful here. I am going to remain skeptical without unjustly criticizing the new regime. What you are saying isn't anything new. It has been said by many after every regime change. I guess with time we will all know how successful Nix/Gailey will be? Until them, the debate will continue with both sides making valid points.... I think the plan is to make the Bills a run and stop the run team. Big, strong and tough and to make the Ralph an unenjoyable place for opposing teams. To do this, we need to stop the run first and that is why the FO is going to a 3-4 and putting most of the attention on the defense in the first year of the rebuild. And it makes sense. If the worst coaches and worst OL in the league could win 6-7 game a year, it standa to reason a quality, proven, offensive coach like Gailey - with a healthy, albeit marginal line and QB- can produce points. He's done it everywhere he's gone. Our offensive talent is better now than it was last year. Defense this year, offense next year. We had 19 guys on IR last year and countless combinations in the OL, no real OC and we still prodced a 1,000 yard rusher. Give the young guys on the OL this year to see what they have and next year act on the QB and any other OL problems, be it draft or FA. We don't need an all world OL this year because they are going to be run blocking for the most part. That is their thinking and they are sticking to it and not running scattershot to fill all the holes they have by mortgaging the future. Gailey is down with this and merely asked for one thing which he got .....his scat back and homerun threat. This year is about the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 You said earlier you are willing to give Nix and Gailey "the benefit of the doubt." I don't see much of that in any of your posts. Your posts are nothing BUT doubt. Not that ther's anything wrong with that--you can be as doubtful as you like. Just sayin'. Say what you like. I'm a realist. Doesn't mean I'm correct all the time, far from it, but yeah, optimists find realists pessimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBaroo Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 Say what you like. I'm a realist. Doesn't mean I'm correct all the time, far from it, but yeah, optimists find realists pessimistic. Why don't you go find your helmet!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted July 24, 2010 Share Posted July 24, 2010 I don't get why everyone is gaga over Cowher. Cowher was a good coach, but he was also with the Steelers for at least 15 years and won only 1 superbowl. Look at Marty Schottenheimer, he if had 15 years on one team, I'm sure he would have won a superbowl as well. I think Cowher would have been a better coach for the Bills, but I would label him as the savior like most Bills fans would have. Cowher had crappy QBs in Pittsburgh and still managed to do extremely well most years. It was not a coincidence that the minute he got a good QB, the Steelers won a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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