our new defense

[sllib olaffub]

I was reading the Brown article on our 3rd nickel cornerback this year, and it jumped out at me how deep our secondary is. Safety is really solid with Byrd and Wilson as two ballhawks, and Whitner and Scott as real good against the run - and then you've got McKelvin, McGee, Florence, Youboty, Corner - and even Seargeant and Lankster at cornerback.

 

With all this talent - we could let these guys play a lot more man-to-man coverage this year and have a defense similar to the Jets. I think we're going to be able to devote a lot more personnel packages to stopping the run and blitzing - because our secondary is so good. What do you guys think?

[K-9]

All depends on whether or not we force offenses into less manageable down/distance situations.

 

That said, I have a hunch we'll be seeing more man coverages this year. But we'll still play our share of cover-2.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[saundena]

I was reading the Brown article on our 3rd nickel cornerback this year, and it jumped out at me how deep our secondary is. Safety is really solid with Byrd and Wilson as two ballhawks, and Whitner and Scott as real good against the run - and then you've got McKelvin, McGee, Florence, Youboty, Corner - and even Seargeant and Lankster at cornerback.

 

With all this talent - we could let these guys play a lot more man-to-man coverage this year and have a defense similar to the Jets. I think we're going to be able to devote a lot more personnel packages to stopping the run and blitzing - because our secondary is so good. What do you guys think?

 

Agreed. On paper, I believe that our secondary is better than the Jets. It's just that taken as a whole, the rest of the Jets D was much better than ours last year- not to mention, the coaching. Let's just hope that we can be at least average against the run because with our Pass D, I believe we will be a top 10 unit!

[Rex Ryan's Lapband]

You guys do have a helluva secondary. I think your defense's ceiling is going to be dependent on the contributions of one particular rookie: Terrell Troup. Nose tackles make or break a 3/4. When we first switched and had Dewayne Robertson, we stuffed the run like a sieve. It was awful. Kris Jenkins made all the difference in the world. You need two things to make the 3/4 work: stout guy up the middle and a good play-caller. Other than that, I'd say you guys have a pretty good D, I'm not so sure how effective tampa-2 LBs are going to be in a scheme where they're taking on guards, but I've seen some undersized LBs excel in a 3/4. We'll see.

[saundena]

You guys do have a helluva secondary. I think your defense's ceiling is going to be dependent on the contributions of one particular rookie: Terrell Troup. Nose tackles make or break a 3/4. When we first switched and had Dewayne Robertson, we stuffed the run like a sieve. It was awful. Kris Jenkins made all the difference in the world. You need two things to make the 3/4 work: stout guy up the middle and a good play-caller. Other than that, I'd say you guys have a pretty good D, I'm not so sure how effective tampa-2 LBs are going to be in a scheme where they're taking on guards, but I've seen some undersized LBs excel in a 3/4. We'll see.

 

WHAT! A sensible reply from the enemy?!?! Maybe you can teach the Dol-Phag Trolls how to post on other teams message boards. You're ok in my book!

[Pirate Angel]

I was reading the Brown article on our 3rd nickel cornerback this year, and it jumped out at me how deep our secondary is. Safety is really solid with Byrd and Wilson as two ballhawks, and Whitner and Scott as real good against the run - and then you've got McKelvin, McGee, Florence, Youboty, Corner - and even Seargeant and Lankster at cornerback.

 

With all this talent - we could let these guys play a lot more man-to-man coverage this year and have a defense similar to the Jets. I think we're going to be able to devote a lot more personnel packages to stopping the run and blitzing - because our secondary is so good. What do you guys think?

Im not seeing how we are really solid at safety. Byrd had a great rookie debut, he has a great nose for the ball and he got lucky a few times, he leaves very much to be desired in tackling and run support but he was a rookie and lets hope he improves. As for Wilson, Scott, and Whitner they have done little more than show they are average safeties. The success of our secondary will greatly depend on the new 3-4 defense creating pressure.

[Pirate Angel]

You guys do have a helluva secondary. I think your defense's ceiling is going to be dependent on the contributions of one particular rookie: Terrell Troup. Nose tackles make or break a 3/4. When we first switched and had Dewayne Robertson, we stuffed the run like a sieve. It was awful. Kris Jenkins made all the difference in the world. You need two things to make the 3/4 work: stout guy up the middle and a good play-caller. Other than that, I'd say you guys have a pretty good D, I'm not so sure how effective tampa-2 LBs are going to be in a scheme where they're taking on guards, but I've seen some undersized LBs excel in a 3/4. We'll see.

I think Kyle Williams is going to be a better nose tackle then peopleare giving him credit for. Hes a tuff guy that rarely gets knocked off the ball. 20 lbs is all that keeps him from weighing up where other nose tackles rank.

[Rex Ryan's Lapband]

WHAT! A sensible reply from the enemy?!?! Maybe you can teach the Dol-Phag Trolls how to post on other teams message boards. You're ok in my book!

I'm not sure a dol-phag can be taught much of anything. I mean... if they we're 'teachable'... would they still be dol-phags?

[Doc]

You guys do have a helluva secondary. I think your defense's ceiling is going to be dependent on the contributions of one particular rookie: Terrell Troup. Nose tackles make or break a 3/4. When we first switched and had Dewayne Robertson, we stuffed the run like a sieve. It was awful. Kris Jenkins made all the difference in the world. You need two things to make the 3/4 work: stout guy up the middle and a good play-caller. Other than that, I'd say you guys have a pretty good D, I'm not so sure how effective tampa-2 LBs are going to be in a scheme where they're taking on guards, but I've seen some undersized LBs excel in a 3/4. We'll see.

Outside of Ellison and DiGiorgio (both of whom were in the 220's# range), none of the other guys were "Tampa 2" LB's. They were merely LB's who were put into the Tampa 2. Now there won't be any small LB's on defense for the Bills, and the DE's will be 3-4 sized DE's. And yes a lot will depend on Troup, or how Kyle Williams works as a 1-gap NT.

[Rex Ryan's Lapband]

Outside of Ellison and DiGiorgio (both of whom were in the 220's# range), none of the other guys were "Tampa 2" LB's. They were merely LB's who were put into the Tampa 2. Now there won't be any small LB's on defense for the Bills, and the DE's will be 3-4 sized DE's. And yes a lot will depend on Troup, or how Kyle Williams works as a 1-gap NT.

Poz isn't on the small side?

[Hossage]

Poz has a big enough frame that he could add weight. I havent heard that he is for his new role, however.

[Jerry Jabber]

Poz has a big enough frame that he could add weight. I havent heard that he is for his new role, however.

 

I heard Poz bulked up to 242lbs.

[Glass To The Arson]

I heard Poz bulked up to 242lbs.

 

 

250 and he's lookin' good

[Pilsner]

250 and he's lookin' good

 

 

He's bulked up? Nice. I hope he keeps improving. And no more broken or fractured bones allowed.

[Doc]

Poz isn't on the small side?

I guess he's bulked-up, but Bart Scott is 6'2" and 240#, which is 2# more than Poz was listed at last year.

[rstencel]

I think Kyle Williams is going to be a better nose tackle then peopleare giving him credit for. Hes a tuff guy that rarely gets knocked off the ball. 20 lbs is all that keeps him from weighing up where other nose tackles rank.

 

If Kyle Williams is our starting NT, I thinks its going to be a very long year for the defense. He was barely adequate at holding point of attack consistently in a one gap defense, were he just had to attack that whole. Now he will have to control the center and be able to shed them to cover either gap, or tie up center and guard to free up a lb consistently. Hes just not that type of player. If hes at nose, the LB's will have to be able to go through linemen to make tackles, which is not ideal for that style of defense. Even Ray Lewis looked ordinary when he didn't have a big NT in front of him to keep him clean. I am not saying he is not a good player, just that I think he is a lousy fit for this type of defense IMO.

[mpl6876]

If Kyle Williams is our starting NT, I thinks its going to be a very long year for the defense. He was barely adequate at holding point of attack consistently in a one gap defense, were he just had to attack that whole. Now he will have to control the center and be able to shed them to cover either gap, or tie up center and guard to free up a lb consistently. Hes just not that type of player. If hes at nose, the LB's will have to be able to go through linemen to make tackles, which is not ideal for that style of defense. Even Ray Lewis looked ordinary when he didn't have a big NT in front of him to keep him clean. I am not saying he is not a good player, just that I think he is a lousy fit for this type of defense IMO.

 

I agree with you.

 

I would also like to add that I don't expect much contibution from Troup. I think the guy could be pretty good with time but statistics show young rookie NT have a somewhat difficult transition making an immediate impact on the NFL field. Example BJ Raji out of BC. Very limited production last year and he was the talk of the draft last year. Also, Sedric Ellis although a DT had a very limited impact on the field too.

 

Additionally, Troup played at a small school where the competition is weaker, I just don't see much immediate production from this guy. I think we are making a big mistake if we are counting on this guy to stop the run. I think we are still in trouble as far as stoppiing the run goes...

[BillsFanInLV]

WHAT! A sensible reply from the enemy?!?! Maybe you can teach the Dol-Phag Trolls how to post on other teams message boards. You're ok in my book!

 

Nice Buffalo Hospitality....Let's send that Jets Fan some Webers!

[Thurman#1]

All depends on whether or not we force offenses into less manageable down/distance situations.

 

That said, I have a hunch we'll be seeing more man coverages this year. But we'll still play our share of cover-2.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

 

 

What he said.

[Rex Ryan's Lapband]

I guess he's bulked-up, but Bart Scott is 6'2" and 240#, which is 2# more than Poz was listed at last year.

like I said... I've seen some undersized LBs do well in it. It's just not common.

[mpl6876]

like I said... I've seen some undersized LBs do well in it. It's just not common.

 

You must be really excited about the upcoming season. Looks like your Jets have a chance to go all the way. Time will tell. I remember the 90's and the excitment I had about our Bills. Now, all I can do is hope, pray, B word, and moan because common sense tells me it is going to be a long season.

 

Signed one frustrated Bills fan.

[Rex Ryan's Lapband]

You must be really excited about the upcoming season. Looks like your Jets have a chance to go all the way. Time will tell. I remember the 90's and the excitment I had about our Bills. Now, all I can do is hope, pray, B word, and moan because common sense tells me it is going to be a long season.

 

Signed one frustrated Bills fan.

I've been a Jets fan for a long time now. I'm trying to temper my expectations.

 

I remember these days all too well...->

 

One thing I'll say is: I really like Rex and think the guy is a defensive genius. (and so far, there's been no indication that he needs to cheat to win)

 

On the offensive side, it's pretty much up to Sanchez's progression. History says that most QBs regress year two. That's the big question. The other concern is getting rid of Thomas Jones. I was a big TJ fan. Still am. The single biggest strength TJ brought to the field was (is) durability. Shonn Greene hasn't shown the durablilty to be a full-season back, and LT is on the wrong side of 30.... and I can see this McNight kid pissing me off. The running game is almost certainly going to fall off. Let's see how far it falls.

 

Yes, we lost Faneca, but that doesn't concern me as much as the loss of TJ. Faneca was steadily slipping all last season. He simply is not the player he once was. Matt Slauson was targeted by Bill Callahan (our o-line coach) after he worked with him while at Nebraska. Vlad Ducasse might start too. Either way, the guy who's there is going to be sandwiched between two pro-bowlers. I think the line ought to be fine. It's the backs I worry about.

[BillsPhan]

I was reading the Brown article on our 3rd nickel cornerback this year, and it jumped out at me how deep our secondary is. Safety is really solid with Byrd and Wilson as two ballhawks, and Whitner and Scott as real good against the run - and then you've got McKelvin, McGee, Florence, Youboty, Corner - and even Seargeant and Lankster at cornerback.

 

With all this talent - we could let these guys play a lot more man-to-man coverage this year and have a defense similar to the Jets. I think we're going to be able to devote a lot more personnel packages to stopping the run and blitzing - because our secondary is so good. What do you guys think?

 

First of all, since when has Donte Whitner proven he's "real good against the run"? In fact, the Bills have been nothing but "real bad against the run" overall, for the past few years now. I agree the secondary seems to have more talent then the front 7 heading into training camp. But even with Byrd snagging his 9 ints. last year, and Wilson being good around the ball too, the Bills' defense rarely stopped anybody when it counted last season.

 

So you could be right as far as more effective blitzing, with the Bills d-backs playing more man to man to compensate. But as far as stopping the run, that's where George Wilson and his 3-4 players need to prove to the NFL and we fans that they are up to the task.

[CarolinaBill]

I agree with you.

 

I would also like to add that I don't expect much contibution from Troup. I think the guy could be pretty good with time but statistics show young rookie NT have a somewhat difficult transition making an immediate impact on the NFL field. Example BJ Raji out of BC. Very limited production last year and he was the talk of the draft last year. Also, Sedric Ellis although a DT had a very limited impact on the field too.

 

Additionally, Troup played at a small school where the competition is weaker, I just don't see much immediate production from this guy. I think we are making a big mistake if we are counting on this guy to stop the run. I think we are still in trouble as far as stoppiing the run goes...

you're not gonna get much statistically from a NT anyway, he's a space eater not a sackmaster.

 

ah yes, the old small school argument, tell me, how did that work out for andre reed, jerry rice, strahan, osi umeniyora, kurt warner, brandon marshall, and countless other small school guys.

 

News flash; Schools only have X amount of scholarships to give out so if the guys in the top 20 dont want to sit the bench behind top 5 guys, guess where they go....they are still very talented, and the competition is far from weak. Thats one of the worst arguments to make against any college player. BTW, how many penn st players have BUSTED in the last 10 yrs, or any big name programs for that matter.

 

Troup was a 3 yr player that got better every yr, thats what matters, he has the size, and strength to play the position .

[mpl6876]

you're not gonna get much statistically from a NT anyway, he's a space eater not a sackmaster.

 

ah yes, the old small school argument, tell me, how did that work out for andre reed, jerry rice, strahan, osi umeniyora, kurt warner, brandon marshall, and countless other small school guys.

 

News flash; Schools only have X amount of scholarships to give out so if the guys in the top 20 dont want to sit the bench behind top 5 guys, guess where they go....they are still very talented, and the competition is far from weak. Thats one of the worst arguments to make against any college player. BTW, how many penn st players have BUSTED in the last 10 yrs, or any big name programs for that matter.

 

Troup was a 3 yr player that got better every yr, thats what matters, he has the size, and strength to play the position .

 

For every small school success how many small school failures are there? I don't know the answer. Big time players go to big time schools! The best players go to big time schools. The best players get scholarships. Nevertheless, I do think there is some validity to your argument. I think one must look at the totally player and the total picture. What happened to Xavier Omon? There are countless examples of small school bust too. It goes both ways. I don't think your criticism of me is totally fair but yet it does have some validity. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

Also, I never mentioned or expected Troup to get sacks or be a sackmaster as you point it. I do think it is important for the NT to make tackles though and not just take up space.

[CarolinaBill]

For every small school success how many small school failures are there? I don't know the answer. Big time players go to big time schools! The best players go to big time schools. The best players get scholarships. Nevertheless, I do think there is some validity to your argument. I think one must look at the totally player and the total picture. What happened to Xavier Omon? There are countless examples of small school bust too. It goes both ways. I don't think your criticism of me is totally fair but yet it does have some validity. The truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

Also, I never mentioned or expected Troup to get sacks or be a sackmaster as you point it. I do think it is important for the NT to make tackles though and not just take up space.

There seems to be a misconception that UCF is a small school, with over 44,000 undergrads I hardly consider that small, in comparison the University of florida, by comparison has roughly 49,000 undergrads.

 

The point is that while UCF is a relatively new program and plays in a smaller conference, that doesn't diminish the talents of the players who play there. There are busts at all levels, some top prospects never even see the field in college (mitch mustain).

 

Look up the pat kirwan article on NFL.com from a few months back about D-lineman in yrs 1 and 2, that should provide some insight for you.

 

Myself, I think TT will come in and do exactly what he is supposed to do, which is eat up blockers, and make the occasional tackle or sack when it comes his way.

[Adam]

Poz isn't on the small side?

Only as far as production

[DieHardBillsFan]

From what I have read so far Kyle Williams is going to start in the middle but I would not write off Troup. I watched alot of UCF games for the last few years, since I live in Orlando and went to school there, and he was blowing up the middle regularly taking on 2 defenders and still getting at the QB and disruptive on most downs. UCF played a number of high quality teams last year as well, East Carolina, Southern Miss, Miami, Texas, UAB and Rutgers. They lost most of those games but most were close and usually because of the offense. The team reminds me alot of the Bills actually where the defense keeps the team in games for so long till they were worn out from being on the field the whole time. Either way Troup was a regular stand out in the games. He will probably be a back up to start but he will play and be a good player for the Bills.

[Ever Since '86]

Only as far as production

 

Poz is familiar with the 3/4 as PSU's Defense is similar to the steelers... He should have a breakout year as long as he stays healthy

[sllib olaffub]

I think we'll see our secondary matched up more one on one this year - and that might be good for them and increase their interceptions - due to the pressure on the QB, or, it might make them look worse than last year.

I know it's possible that our defense goes through some transitional trouble this year, as some people think it will. But, I'm holding on to the hope that it will actually be better. For one, there's the secondary - which, as I said, should get more opportunities to make plays or get burned. Then there's the linebackers. Davis, Mitchell (who I like, and who has played 3-4), Poz, Maybin (who could be pretty good as OLB), Batten, Coleman, Moats, and Kelsay. Those guys are plenty big enough to stop the run. Sure, there's some question with Kelsay, Maybin, and Batten - but, on run downs I think Kelsay will be a strength. Now to Stroud, Williams, Troupe, Carrington, Johnson, and Edwards - rotating them in and out for stamina, and I see a front seven that shouldn't have trouble holding up against the run. That group looks like a 3-4 defense to me.

So, as I see it, even if we don't come out and tear it up, we should at least be decent, which is better than we've been. I think we can be a top 10 defense.

[Adam]

Poz is familiar with the 3/4 as PSU's Defense is similar to the steelers... He should have a breakout year as long as he stays healthy

Be careful about saying Poz and break in the same sentence.....

[saundena]

I've been a Jets fan for a long time now. I'm trying to temper my expectations.

 

I remember these days all too well...->

 

One thing I'll say is: I really like Rex and think the guy is a defensive genius. (and so far, there's been no indication that he needs to cheat to win)

 

On the offensive side, it's pretty much up to Sanchez's progression. History says that most QBs regress year two. That's the big question. The other concern is getting rid of Thomas Jones. I was a big TJ fan. Still am. The single biggest strength TJ brought to the field was (is) durability. Shonn Greene hasn't shown the durablilty to be a full-season back, and LT is on the wrong side of 30.... and I can see this McNight kid pissing me off. The running game is almost certainly going to fall off. Let's see how far it falls.

 

Yes, we lost Faneca, but that doesn't concern me as much as the loss of TJ. Faneca was steadily slipping all last season. He simply is not the player he once was. Matt Slauson was targeted by Bill Callahan (our o-line coach) after he worked with him while at Nebraska. Vlad Ducasse might start too. Either way, the guy who's there is going to be sandwiched between two pro-bowlers. I think the line ought to be fine. It's the backs I worry about.

 

Nice Bellicheat zinger! I competely agree with your RB situation. What was once a strength of the Jets is now questionable at best. Thomas Jones was a reliable workhorse. LT is a fading star. It's almost as if they ditched Jones and brought in LT because they thought it would help to sell more seats (I hear they are having trouble selling the seat liscences-- too bad this is what it's come to). ANYWAY, with a 2nd year QB who was carried by the D and the running game, I don't think it was very wise to jettison T. Jones and Faneca. The Jets might win the AFC East, but I think they will struggle to score points which is why I feel Baltimore and Indy are the teams to beat in the AFC.

 

I think we'll see our secondary matched up more one on one this year - and that might be good for them and increase their interceptions - due to the pressure on the QB, or, it might make them look worse than last year.

I know it's possible that our defense goes through some transitional trouble this year, as some people think it will. But, I'm holding on to the hope that it will actually be better. For one, there's the secondary - which, as I said, should get more opportunities to make plays or get burned. Then there's the linebackers. Davis, Mitchell (who I like, and who has played 3-4), Poz, Maybin (who could be pretty good as OLB), Batten, Coleman, Moats, and Kelsay. Those guys are plenty big enough to stop the run. Sure, there's some question with Kelsay, Maybin, and Batten - but, on run downs I think Kelsay will be a strength. Now to Stroud, Williams, Troupe, Carrington, Johnson, and Edwards - rotating them in and out for stamina, and I see a front seven that shouldn't have trouble holding up against the run. That group looks like a 3-4 defense to me.

So, as I see it, even if we don't come out and tear it up, we should at least be decent, which is better than we've been. I think we can be a top 10 defense.

 

Well said. I don't think the transition will be as bad as some think. Sure there will be some blown coverages, but I think when the money is on the line you will see 2 things:

 

1. Our D will make critical stops on 3rd down.

2. We won't wear out in the 4th quarter.

 

There is no way we finish worse than 8-8!

[mpl6876]

Nice Bellicheat zinger! I competely agree with your RB situation. What was once a strength of the Jets is now questionable at best. Thomas Jones was a reliable workhorse. LT is a fading star. It's almost as if they ditched Jones and brought in LT because they thought it would help to sell more seats (I hear they are having trouble selling the seat liscences-- too bad this is what it's come to). ANYWAY, with a 2nd year QB who was carried by the D and the running game, I don't think it was very wise to jettison T. Jones and Faneca. The Jets might win the AFC East, but I think they will struggle to score points which is why I feel Baltimore and Indy are the teams to beat in the AFC.

 

 

 

Well said. I don't think the transition will be as bad as some think. Sure there will be some blown coverages, but I think when the money is on the line you will see 2 things:

 

1. Our D will make critical stops on 3rd down.

2. We won't wear out in the 4th quarter.

 

There is no way we finish worse than 8-8!

 

Very bold prediction.

[Adam]

I took a long hard look at our defense last night, and I am not as excited as I initially was. Was have two DE's playing OLB and a one-gap nose tackle. That, essentially, is a 5-2, not a 3-4. I expect we will be much better against the run, but will get gouged by short passes, particularly to good TE's.

 

One we get Williams out and Troup in, I suspect things will improve, as long as Troup lives up to his billing- which may be 3 years down the road.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day

[Fixxxer]

From what I have read so far Kyle Williams is going to start in the middle but I would not write off Troup. I watched alot of UCF games for the last few years, since I live in Orlando and went to school there, and he was blowing up the middle regularly taking on 2 defenders and still getting at the QB and disruptive on most downs. UCF played a number of high quality teams last year as well, East Carolina, Southern Miss, Miami, Texas, UAB and Rutgers. They lost most of those games but most were close and usually because of the offense. The team reminds me alot of the Bills actually where the defense keeps the team in games for so long till they were worn out from being on the field the whole time. Either way Troup was a regular stand out in the games. He will probably be a back up to start but he will play and be a good player for the Bills.

 

Thanks for this post, nice to hear good things about Troupe from people that actually saw him play and his team. What defense did they run at UCF? Was a 3-4 or a 4-3?

[Orton's Arm]

First of all, since when has Donte Whitner proven he's "real good against the run"? In fact, the Bills have been nothing but "real bad against the run" overall, for the past few years now. I agree the secondary seems to have more talent then the front 7 heading into training camp. But even with Byrd snagging his 9 ints. last year, and Wilson being good around the ball too, the Bills' defense rarely stopped anybody when it counted last season.

 

So you could be right as far as more effective blitzing, with the Bills d-backs playing more man to man to compensate. But as far as stopping the run, that's where George Wilson and his 3-4 players need to prove to the NFL and we fans that they are up to the task.

When Donte Whitner was drafted 8th overall, I thought it was a clear waste of a valuable draft pick. Nothing that's happened since has changed my mind. But that said, Whitner is still a decent player. Not good enough to be chosen 8th overall by any possible stretch of the imagination; but still an asset to the team. Part of that is that he is (generally) good against the run. The fact that the team as a whole was weak against the run was more because of the front-7 than because of the secondary.