Bills franchise question?

[clearwater cadet]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

[Wizard]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

 

Nope...My first impression of the Bucs was the Steve Young and orange creamsicle outfits they wore. However, I was happy to see the Bucs win. Their defense was perfectly built for about 3 years.

 

As for the Saints, I was rooting for them because of the underdog mentality and in support of the Hurricane Katrina areas needing love and support. The Saints picking up Brees changed that organization in a positive direction entirely. Now...if the Bills could get a QB...hope again.

[Buftex]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

 

 

I have been pulling for the Bills since the early 70's. I know what you mean...though, I have a real hard team seeing all these expansion teams winning Super Bowls, while we wait patiently for our first. I did, however, pull for the Saints. Always had an affinity for New Orleans, and having known many Saints fans over the years, I gotta say, not the brightest bulbs, but devout fans... I did feel good for them. Nothing to do with Katrina, just the misery of that franchise. I love going to Saints games, when I can. Maybe not the same as Lambeau (never been), or some other such hallowed football ground, but, one of the funnest atmospheres. The whole city is like the parking lot of the Ralph, even if the game is not sold out. It is a city-wide tailgate party. I can see why the NFL loves having Super Bowls there.

 

Back in 2004, my brother and I, completely on a whim, hooked up in New Orleans one Friday night, (he was there from Atlanta on a business trip, I drove from Austin)...we had a blast the whole weekend. He was leaving Monday morning, and I didn't have to be back to work until Tuesday. The Bills happened to be playing a Sunday night game, we planned on watching it together at the hotel bar...it was that dreadful Sunday night debacle against the Patriots, where Bledsoe got yanked, and we got our first look at rookie JP Losman. Anyways, Sunday morning, we were getting breakfest, and someone was selling tickets for the Saints game that day, against the Chiefs, dirt cheap. We purchased the tickets, and had great time. The Saints won, in OT, the place was nuts. I was wiped out (too much shouting, and booze) by the time the game was over...I have been to about Saints games (saw the Bills twice, in 1992 and 1998, both wins for the good guys!)

 

The team that really killed me to see win, was the Patriots, the first time. Make no mistake, I loved the way they played football, but, I hated the fact that the one team in our division, who Bills fans could look down their noses at, won a friggin' Super Bowl. seemingly out of nowhere. To have them repeat that feat a few more times is just galling...

 

Sorry to ramble...good times!

[DrFishfinder]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

Ever since Levy left as HC, it's pretty much been a steady downward spiral. A lot of reasons contributed to that. When other teams make the correct decisions which put them in a position to win the SB, my hat's off to them. I don't begrudge any other team their successes. I do think it's a shame that the Bills, in the league since the beginning, have floundered for so many years without getting things on track.

 

I am cautiously optimistic that the team is moving in the right direction this year. I pretty much expect the team to have a rough start to the season, as the new staff, schemes and players adjust. My hope is that they will be a better team by the end of the season, than they have been for the last several years. That, is something I can live with.

[Coach55]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

Quite honestly, I would much rather have a team like the Bucs or the Saints win one than a team like Dallas or the Pats*. It's good for the league that teams like this win.

 

Just remember - it only takes one year. Not every superbowl team is a dynasty. The experts always have their preseason favorites and all "think" they know how things will shake out. Who knows, this may be our year...

[Spiderweb]

Ever since Levy left as HC, it's pretty much been a steady downward spiral. A lot of reasons contributed to that. When other teams make the correct decisions which put them in a position to win the SB, my hat's off to them. I don't begrudge any other team their successes. I do think it's a shame that the Bills, in the league since the beginning, have floundered for so many years without getting things on track.

 

I am cautiously optimistic that the team is moving in the right direction this year. I pretty much expect the team to have a rough start to the season, as the new staff, schemes and players adjust. My hope is that they will be a better team by the end of the season, than they have been for the last several years. That, is something I can live with.

 

Actually, the Bills began their slide during Levy's last few years. Our once dominate offensive line was rendered impotent with the likes of Fina (adequate), Crofts (horrible), Ziegler (poor), Ostroski (barely adequate Guard, poor tackle), etc.......

 

Our stars were aging (Kelly, Smith, Thomas, Reed) and frankly, the cupboard ran bare trying to find others able to step in and play. I used to curse Levy for not giving the O-Line the attention it needed. This characteristic unfortunately cared over into the next regimes and to this very day. Last years pick of Wood and Levitre was actually a good step in the right direction though.

[Hossage]

For real spidey, last year I wanted to draft four linemen and beanie wells. Everyone laughed at me.

[Guest dog14787]

Ever since Levy left as HC, it's pretty much been a steady downward spiral. A lot of reasons contributed to that. When other teams make the correct decisions which put them in a position to win the SB, my hat's off to them. I don't begrudge any other team their successes. I do think it's a shame that the Bills, in the league since the beginning, have floundered for so many years without getting things on track.

 

I am cautiously optimistic that the team is moving in the right direction this year. I pretty much expect the team to have a rough start to the season, as the new staff, schemes and players adjust. My hope is that they will be a better team by the end of the season, than they have been for the last several years. That, is something I can live with.

 

+1

[evilbuffalobob]

Buffalo is a great town. Thats' what I think.

[BillsPhan]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

 

After that 4th consecutive SB loss to Dallas after the '93 season, I stopped caring about other franchises winning SB's before my beloved Bills. Let's face it, they had four straight chances to win just one of these damn games, and blew them all. Sure I'll respect those 4 consecutive Conference championships, a feat most likely never to be repeated again in today's salary capped free agencied NFL. But now I only want to live long enough to watch my Bills win just one SB. Unfortunately, Ralph Wilson has to live long enough at 93 years old, while they still are the Buffalo Bills, for that to happen.

 

So although it seems crazy that Tampa Bay and New Orleans have won their SB's before the Bills have, who really cares? Cleveland and Detroit fans have never even gotten the chance to watch their teams play in even one SB, and we Bills fans have experienced that feeling 4 times.

[thewildrabbit]

Nope...My first impression of the Bucs was the Steve Young and orange creamsicle outfits they wore. However, I was happy to see the Bucs win. Their defense was perfectly built for about 3 years.

 

As for the Saints, I was rooting for them because of the underdog mentality and in support of the Hurricane Katrina areas needing love and support. The Saints picking up Brees changed that organization in a positive direction entirely. Now...if the Bills could get a QB...hope again.

Not for nothing but it was the GM hire that changed the face of that franchise, because he hired a really brilliant head coach in Sean Payton, then they brought in Drew Brees who is a huge part of their success.

 

In my view Sean Payton might be the most under rated HC in the NFL right now, some of the offensive plays he devises are amazing.The way he sets up his offensive schemes they are never very predictable.

 

Perfect marriage of GM, HC, QB like the Bills used to have with Polian, Levy and Kelly.

[thewildrabbit]

After that 4th consecutive SB loss to Dallas after the '93 season, I stopped caring about other franchises winning SB's before my beloved Bills. Let's face it, they had four straight chances to win just one of these damn games, and blew them all. Sure I'll respect those 4 consecutive Conference championships, a feat most likely never to be repeated again in today's salary capped free agencied NFL. But now I only want to live long enough to watch my Bills win just one SB. Unfortunately, Ralph Wilson has to live long enough at 93 years old, while they still are the Buffalo Bills, for that to happen.

 

So although it seems crazy that Tampa Bay and New Orleans have won their SB's before the Bills have, who really cares? Cleveland and Detroit fans have never even gotten the chance to watch their teams play in even one SB, and we Bills fans have experienced that feeling 4 times.

There are other teams out there that are truly snake bitten like Cleveland-Detroit-Houston-Jacksonville have all never even been to the SB.

Think about the Cleveland fans who watched their team go to 3 AFC championships 86-87-89, then the owner packs up the team and moves it to Baltimore... where they won a SB!

 

Minnesota has lost 4 SB's... just not in a row.

 

Shoot, the Texans have never even made the playoffs...

 

The Oiler's lose to Buffalo in the famous comeback game they thought they had won and were finally going to the SB. Those early Oiler teams with Earl Campbell could never get past the Steelers.

 

Detroit had Barry Sanders, probably the greatest RB ever and the team couldn't find a QB the entire time he was with Detroit...

[Bob in STL]

Actually, the Bills began their slide during Levy's last few years. Our once dominate offensive line was rendered impotent with the likes of Fina (adequate), Crofts (horrible), Ziegler (poor), Ostroski (barely adequate Guard, poor tackle), etc.......

 

Our stars were aging (Kelly, Smith, Thomas, Reed) and frankly, the cupboard ran bare trying to find others able to step in and play. I used to curse Levy for not giving the O-Line the attention it needed. This characteristic unfortunately cared over into the next regimes and to this very day. Last years pick of Wood and Levitre was actually a good step in the right direction though.

 

Agee in principle that the line eroded but so did the top talent like Kelly, Thurman and Reed.

 

Crafts was a bad player and the Bills were arrogant to think he could step in to replace Ballard. Fina was a solid tackle but is a whipping boy on TSW. Ziegler was a good prospect and the Bills gave up on him to soon. He started at center for a much better Giants team after he left Buffalo. Ostroski was a solid backup gaurd and center that was forced to play due to injuries to Glenn Parker and others. Don't forget that we drafted Reuben Brown and he was an excellent lineman.

 

The neglect of both trenches has been almost bizzare but I think the biggest problem has been too much change. Chan is our 5th coach in 10 years. How many GM's have we had in that time? Butler, Donohoe, Levy, Jauron/Brandon, and now Nix. This is a recipe for disater.

 

You want to win? Hire the best people and give them a chance to succeed. Ralph should know this.

[thewildrabbit]

Agee in principle that the line eroded but so did the top talent like Kelly, Thurman and Reed.

 

Crafts was a bad player and the Bills were arrogant to think he could step in to replace Ballard. Fina was a solid tackle but is a whipping boy on TSW. Ziegler was a good prospect and the Bills gave up on him to soon. He started at center for a much better Giants team after he left Buffalo. Ostroski was a solid backup gaurd and center that was forced to play due to injuries to Glenn Parker and others. Don't forget that we drafted Reuben Brown and he was an excellent lineman.

 

The neglect of both trenches has been almost bizzare but I think the biggest problem has been too much change. Chan is our 5th coach in 10 years. How many GM's have we had in that time? Butler, Donohoe, Levy, Jauron/Brandon, and now Nix. This is a recipe for disater.

 

You want to win? Hire the best people and give them a chance to succeed. Ralph should know this.

That would mean he would have to pay top dollar...ain't gonna happen ever again!

 

Only once did he spend to get a playoff winning coach in Chuck Knox, and ONLY after TEN YEARS of losing to the Dolphins....and then didn't want to give him a raise even after he had some success in Buffalo.

 

 

 

The biggest reason for the 90's Bills demise was OC Ted Marchibroda leaving to coach the Indy Colts AND Bill Polian leaving.

 

I find it interesting that the son (Jim Irsay)of owner of the Colts(Robert Irsay) took Marchibroda away from the Bills and then realized that Polian was the true genius and went after him, the rest is history.

[Bob in STL]

That would mean he would have to pay top dollar...ain't gonna happen ever again!

 

Only once did he spend to get a playoff winning coach in Chuck Knox, and ONLY after TEN YEARS of losing to the Dolphins....and then didn't want to give him a raise even after he had some success in Buffalo.

 

 

 

The biggest reason for the 90's Bills demise was OC Ted Marchibroda leaving to coach the Indy Colts AND Bill Polian leaving.

 

I find it interesting that the son (Jim Irsay)of owner of the Colts(Robert Irsay) took Marchibroda away from the Bills and then realized that Polian was the true genius and went after him, the rest is history.

 

 

Actually, Marchibroda was a former HC of the Baltimore Colts before he came to Buffalo. He was a known quantity to the Irsay's. I think they knew he was a solid coach, and not a "genius".

 

Lets not forget that Polian had no big NFL resume when he was hired in Buffalo. He is an excellent GM, one of the NFL's best ever. He builds his teams through the draft and he also has some good fortune and good timing too (Kelly and Manning).

[thewildrabbit]

Actually, Marchibroda was a former HC of the Baltimore Colts before he came to Buffalo. He was a known quantity to the Irsay's. I think they knew he was a solid coach, and not a "genius".

Lets not forget that Polian had no big NFL resume when he was hired in Buffalo. He is an excellent GM, one of the NFL's best ever. He builds his teams through the draft and he also has some good fortune and good timing too (Kelly and Manning).

I know, I used to watch Bert Jones play for the "Baltimore" Colts when Marchibroda was the HC, another team that couldn't get past the Steeler's.

 

I was sorta referring to the fact that the 90 Buffalo Bills led the league in scoring and had one of the top offenses in the NFL...In Buffalo?

 

My take is that Marchibroda was a genius, only Polian was more so.

[JohnC]

The neglect of both trenches has been almost bizzare but I think the biggest problem has been too much change.

 

With the new regime you can see that they are trying to get bigger and stronger along both lines. The front office focused on the DL in he draft and with the acquisition of Edwards. Changing to a 3-4 scheme is also an indication that they are trying to alter the light and quick defensive mentality. In my opinion, the OL, especially the tackle positions, need to be further addressed. Transitioning to a different approach is going to take more than a couple of years to accomplish.

 

Chan is our 5th coach in 10 years. How many GM's have we had in that time? Butler, Donohoe, Levy, Jauron/Brandon, and now Nix. This is a recipe for disater.

 

You want to win? Hire the best people and give them a chance to succeed. Ralph should know this.

 

Your observatons are excellent.

 

The problem with the backward owner is that he established a very insular organization. He is not very comfortable hiring people he doesn't know. The Donahoe experience spooked him to the point that he was even more reluctant to hire outsiders.

 

Some people will counter that Ralph tried to hire high profile outsideres such as Shanahan and Cowhrer. Anyone who has followed Ralph's ownership style would know that the flirting with those types of high profile people would never have resulted in them being hired. It was also blatantly obvious that these types of candidates with other options would never want to work in such a restrictive organizational setting.

 

Buddy Nix was someone the owner knew and felt comfortable with. It was a typical Ralph Wilson hire. The irony is that although the exploratory hiring process was limited I believe he was an excellent hire for this organization. Nix, being familiar with the established organizational culture, gives him the advantage in having to deal with it.

[transient]

Buddy Nix was someone the owner knew and felt comfortable with. It was a typical Ralph Wilson hire. The irony is that although the exploratory hiring process was limited I believe he was an excellent hire for this organization. Nix, being familiar with the established organizational culture, gives him the advantage in having to deal with it.

 

I agree. The Bills may have stumbled on the right person in spite of themselves, similar to promoting Polian to GM from the scouting ranks. The thing that could be really beneficial is if Whaley turns out to be legit, cuz he's essentailly a GM in training, which smacks of Nix wanting to stick with this as long as it takes to turn it around and achieve his goals (SB hopefully) and turn the reigns over to a handpicked successor. Tell me that wouldn't be a legacy. And while it may not have been the sexiest pick, the early signs philosophically are that Gailey may have been the right person to coach this team (though the season will obviously be much more telling.) IMO as soon as a GM was hired it was an indication that we would not get one of the big names, especially if the GM had a pair of stones and a vision for the team. We'll see how the power struggle develops in DC between Allen and Shanahan.

[NewHampshireBillsFan]

As a Fan for the past 25-30 years, think back to the early 80's, late 80's, early 90's and so forth, did you ever think that teams like the bucs, and saints would win a superbowl before the Bills. I thought it was a pretty sad day when the Saints became superbowl champs before the Bills.

 

thoughts ?

 

At one time it was a cool thought to think of the Bills winning their first super bowl. They were declining when SB I happened, but then with OJ the thinking was they could win one. They only got one lost playoff game for all those years. Then the Bills probably did have the best team in the league in 1980 but winning two in a row on the road in SD proved too much, esp. with playoff road officiating. Then the late 80s, early 90s. And then a little hope in the late 90s. Nothing after that. Slowly through all those years other teams have finally won their first SBs and there are only a handful of teams left now that have not won a single one in the AFC. And now we are fighting to just become respectable again!

 

What makes it worse is that the Sabres also have never won in 40 years. Nearly a hundred seasons of futility for the 2 Buffalo teams.

 

In some ways I now consider it a blessing that Buffalo never got a major league baseball team.

 

Sorry to sound so negative. I'll snap out of it by the time training camp starts.

[JohnC]

We'll see how the power struggle develops in DC between Allen and Shanahan.

 

There really isn't a power struggle between the GM Allen and HC Shanahan. Shanahan has most of the authority with respect to player personnel decisions. Allen isn't the type of person who jealously guards his authority. He is more than willing to work with Shanahan and support him.

 

From what I understand they have an excellent working relationship. Shanahan is really the most important football operative within the organization and Allen is more of an administrative executive.