Sanchez on Bush, "sometimes kids want to take"

[Mr. WEO]

It is not as if the players don't receive a benefit playing for the university. With the cost of attending and boarding at a private university such as USC the players, if they take advantage of their scholarships, are getting in the range of $50, 000 worth of benefits per year. Again, assuming that the players are wise enough to take advantage of their scholarships, they can get a college education debt free. That is not a trivial payment for their services.

 

I'm not a purist on the charade of amateur athletics. I see nothing wrong, especially in these high income programs, with players getting an increase in their stipend (walk around) money.

 

Reggie Bush was a high profile player playing in a high profile program. That certainly enhanced his ability to develop and showcase his talents. Playing at a school such as USC helped him to be drafted very high which resulted in a gold plated contract by a pro team. The Reggie Bush affair is not about him being exploited by the university. It is more about him exploiting the school and hurting a lot of innocent people.

 

 

 

 

The point I and others previously made is simple: Because he broke a rule he should never have been on the field.

 

The "free education" argument is one I have used in the past (guilty!). But their diploma (for the few that stay long enough to get one) is typically useless, given the bogus course of study that was arranged for them. They are perpared in college only for one thing---a life in football. The "$50,000 a year is, for practical purposes, room and board and a really good gym membership. For the vast majority who don't make it to the pros, they've got nothing when they wlak out the door. Collectively, they have made millions for the school per year, however.

 

Bush likely would have had the same college stats at any decent Div I school. But at another school he may not have attracted an overly aggressive agent and gotten into this trouble. Also, someone in that program knew he was getting stuff---so he was hardly exploiting USC.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

The D&C forum is not in existence. It was withering on the vine anyway.

 

My buddy Neeraj is here posting away. He is a loyal company man, all the way. When I say up; he says down. When I say down; he says up. When I say yes; he says no. When I say no; he says yes. I am the ying; he is the yang. When I become the yang; he becomes the ying. LOL

 

His alias is Doc. He is still dueling with WEO. He can't live without him.

 

I kind of figured that out.

[CountDorkula]

You cant really fault Bush on this. I have to assume he knew it was wrong. BUT I place all teh blame on teh school/parents.

 

The school new it was violating sanctions/rules, but continued to ignore them and keep on doing what they did.

The Parents had to obviously see benifits in this, so they had to no what was going on.

 

I can only imagine the pressure that was on Bush day in and day out to A) Perform at his highest level. B) Keep his parents happy while doing A. and C) keep everything under wraps, all while not blowing a lid off at one of the most attended schools in teh country.

[Captain Caveman]

Bush earned the trophy for his play. He also broke a rule. The rule he broke in no way affected his ability to play on the field.

 

I disagree. He had advantages off the field which made his life much easier, and could have positively impacted his performance on the field.

 

Have you ever had to worry about how you're going to make your next car payment, or pay your rent or mortgage? It can impact your day to day life, and how you function. Reggie didn't have to worry about that stuff. Having money makes everything easier.

[Mr. WEO]

I disagree. He had advantages off the field which made his life much easier, and could have positively impacted his performance on the field.

 

Have you ever had to worry about how you're going to make your next car payment, or pay your rent or mortgage? It can impact your day to day life, and how you function. Reggie didn't have to worry about that stuff. Having money makes everything easier.

Neither did any of his teammates. Every starter on the USC football team is living rent free, has no mortgage and, if they have a car, it was likely paid for by someone else.

 

Pampered star college athletes? Bad example.

[Captain Caveman]

Neither did any of his teammates. Every starter on the USC football team is living rent free, has no mortgage and, if they have a car, it was likely paid for by someone else.

 

Pampered star college athletes? Bad example.

 

Schools are allowed to pay a certain amount for living expenses, etc..., but it is not generally enough for an off campus house (maybe if it's split many ways), or to pay for a car. So I don't think it's a bad example. Some athletes may have these things provided by parents, etc..., but that's in line with the rules.

 

Still, let's say you throw that out. Imagine you're an 18 year old kid, and you know your parents are having a hard time financially. Maybe they live in an area that's unsafe. Would it bother you? Would you maybe lose some sleep over it?

 

I've been poor. I now have money. In my experience it makes just about all aspects of life much easier.

 

BTW, I'm not arguing against athletes benefiting more from the product of College Football, I'm just saying that in my opinion he did gain an unfair advantage based on the current rules.

[GG]

Another ton of evidence of the mockery that big time NCAA athletics are an amateur sport. At least Olympics finally faced up to their hypocrisy. I hope more players come out with what's really going on in big time college athletics to expose the fraud. It's a multibillion dollar industry where the labor is free. Talk about a nice profit margin. What a load of crap.

[Meathead]

I hope the NCAA deny's USC's appeal, they yank the heisman and the title.

its not like they, oh idk, recorded the other teams defensive signals

[JohnC]

The "free education" argument is one I have used in the past (guilty!). But their diploma (for the few that stay long enough to get one) is typically useless, given the bogus course of study that was arranged for them. They are perpared in college only for one thing---a life in football. The "$50,000 a year is, for practical purposes, room and board and a really good gym membership. For the vast majority who don't make it to the pros, they've got nothing when they wlak out the door. Collectively, they have made millions for the school per year, however.

 

Bush likely would have had the same college stats at any decent Div I school. But at another school he may not have attracted an overly aggressive agent and gotten into this trouble. Also, someone in that program knew he was getting stuff---so he was hardly exploiting USC.

 

The undergraduate degrees that the football players get can be as useful/useless as the degrees that the other students get. The players/students are as prepared or not prepared for other things as much as the effort they put in the classroom. The same effort and outcome level apply to the general student population. While the football players put in a lot of time in preparing for their games, today's students, in general, spend a significant portion of their college days working part time or more to pay for school and expenses.

 

As you pointed out, it is a very small number of college players who make the pros. I suspect more do well because of their college experience in their future endeavors than if they didn't attend college.

[Captain Caveman]

Another ton of evidence of the mockery that big time NCAA athletics are an amateur sport. At least Olympics finally faced up to their hypocrisy. I hope more players come out with what's really going on in big time college athletics to expose the fraud. It's a multibillion dollar industry where the labor is free. Talk about a nice profit margin. What a load of crap.

 

It's true that the schools make money off college football, but this is reinvested back into scholarships and other educational opportunities for many other students. It's not like the University President is banking this money.

[bartshan-83]

The obvious solution is (and always has been) to pay college athletes a modest salary for the time and work they put into the school. "Student"-athletes in moneymaking sports (Football, Men's BB) create a financial windfall for the universities they attend that is severely under-compensated. This whole Big 10, Big XII, Pac-10 fizzled-shake-up was just a huge money-grab for the conferences. I don't agree with the "free education" argument because the behavior of the parties involved belies its equity. Every college football program in the country uses up their scholarship allotment because they know it's a steal on ROI. And scholarships have been the standard compensation for generations. Yet the amount of money generated by the sports has increased astronomically.

 

Cases like Reggie Bush are extreme and I'd wager that the vast majority of misconduct (or temptation to engage in it) occurs with players who have nothing and want just a little. It's easy to cast them as spoiled and greedy with their free education, room and board and perks of being an athlete. But it sucks having no money in college (anytime actually). I knew guys at ND who were ballin on the field but didn't have 10 bucks to grab a pizza. They can't get jobs, FOOTBALL is their job and I guarantee it's like working 40 hours and going to school full-time. How tempting would it be to take $1500 from a booster when you're scoring TDs every week but can't afford to take your girl to dinner and a movie? I don't condone it, but I understand it.

 

Paying for condos and buying kids cars is not the reality of college cheating. It's the 1K payments, the plane tickets or the cushy no-show job. Let's say you work at the Gap in college 35-40 hrs/week...you might pull in $1000 a month. I bet if colleges paid players that amount there would be a huge drop in impropriety among NCAA athletes.

 

The only obstacle (and it's pretty major) is Title IX and how you would deal with only compensating athletes from revenue-generating sports. I'm not sure how to answer that. But the system we are in is broken...it survives only because people don't care enough to upset the status quo.

[GG]

It's true that the schools make money off college football, but this is reinvested back into scholarships and other educational opportunities for many other students. It's not like the University President is banking this money.

 

And it's doubtful that Princeton would get embroiled in this type of a scandal. Who cares what the schools do with the billions of revenues. The point is they get virtually free labor, under the guise of a scholarship. Which would all be fine & dandy if they upheld academic standards for star athletes. Funny how no one cares that non-athletic scholarship students can hold jobs during college or accept gifts from future employers, such as free travel for job interviews.

[Meark]

Pretty messed up the program gets penalized for one individuals greedy decisions.

[JohnC]

Pretty messed up the program gets penalized for one individuals greedy decisions.

 

The basketball program was also scrutinized for the way they handled the recruiting and maintenance of O. J. Mayo. He was a billboard asking for trouble when he was recruited by the school. The cash was flowing during his recruitment and while he was playing. When you pursue a rogue player surrounded by "his representatives" and who you know is a "one and done" player then you are asking for trouble.

 

The person who should have been summarily dismissed is the athletic director: Mike Garrett. Under his leadership the NCAA found both the football and basketball programs involved in major violations.

[Captain Caveman]

And it's doubtful that Princeton would get embroiled in this type of a scandal. Who cares what the schools do with the billions of revenues. The point is they get virtually free labor, under the guise of a scholarship. Which would all be fine & dandy if they upheld academic standards for star athletes. Funny how no one cares that non-athletic scholarship students can hold jobs during college or accept gifts from future employers, such as free travel for job interviews.

 

Yeah, which is why Ivy League schools don't offer athletic scholarships at all. I'm not arguing that USC is in the right. I just don't want to see College Football further ruined over money (when we have kids going to the schools that will pay the most, or holding out, etc....)

 

The kids are receiving an opportunity for a top flight education. If they don't take advantage, !@#$ 'em. Most kids who work during College do so to afford living expenses. Since these are generally covered from a stipend by the College, there's not much need for these kids to work (although they technically can hold jobs, as long as they're not related to the student's athletic ability.) The kids who will make the NFL will get payment enough when they leave school.

[Thoner7]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

 

A poor black kid from the inner city, becomes a big time football player, brings in millions upon millions of dollars to USC, the PAC 10, college football, and the NCAA, which benifits countless other college athletic programs across the country.

 

Then some really rich alum, wants to donate a house to his mom, and give away other goodies to some kids on the team.

 

I struggle to see any wrong in this. How is it any different than the school giving him a scholarship or that rich man donating to habitat for humanity? So a rich guy is gonna give a house to a poor person.... QUICK ARREST EVERYONE AND PUNISH THEM!!!!! TAKE AWAY WINS, TAKE AWAY THE HEISMAN!!!!!

[Doc]

Did you read my post? How did you ever come up with your interpretation of my comments? Where did I attack him? You are doing what Neeraj does, you create your own interpretation and then argue off of your distortions.

 

You can do better than that. I know you are better than that.

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

You make several good points, but there is a big misconception at the top that is common to so many of these discussions, and that is that athletics "create a financial windfall for the universities."

 

It is not true that college athletics make big money for their schools. They make big money for the athletic programs, which in virtually all cases manage to spend it all on themselves. The amounts that reach the school as a whole are a minor fraction. One can make the argument that athletic success encourages alumni giving, but that is at best indirect.

 

Big time athletics are a cancer on the US university system. They should be cut away.

 

 

The obvious solution is (and always has been) to pay college athletes a modest salary for the time and work they put into the school. "Student"-athletes in moneymaking sports (Football, Men's BB) create a financial windfall for the universities they attend that is severely under-compensated. This whole Big 10, Big XII, Pac-10 fizzled-shake-up was just a huge money-grab for the conferences. I don't agree with the "free education" argument because the behavior of the parties involved belies its equity. Every college football program in the country uses up their scholarship allotment because they know it's a steal on ROI. And scholarships have been the standard compensation for generations. Yet the amount of money generated by the sports has increased astronomically.

 

Cases like Reggie Bush are extreme and I'd wager that the vast majority of misconduct (or temptation to engage in it) occurs with players who have nothing and want just a little. It's easy to cast them as spoiled and greedy with their free education, room and board and perks of being an athlete. But it sucks having no money in college (anytime actually). I knew guys at ND who were ballin on the field but didn't have 10 bucks to grab a pizza. They can't get jobs, FOOTBALL is their job and I guarantee it's like working 40 hours and going to school full-time. How tempting would it be to take $1500 from a booster when you're scoring TDs every week but can't afford to take your girl to dinner and a movie? I don't condone it, but I understand it.

 

Paying for condos and buying kids cars is not the reality of college cheating. It's the 1K payments, the plane tickets or the cushy no-show job. Let's say you work at the Gap in college 35-40 hrs/week...you might pull in $1000 a month. I bet if colleges paid players that amount there would be a huge drop in impropriety among NCAA athletes.

 

The only obstacle (and it's pretty major) is Title IX and how you would deal with only compensating athletes from revenue-generating sports. I'm not sure how to answer that. But the system we are in is broken...it survives only because people don't care enough to upset the status quo.

[JohnC]

Ok, so let me get this straight.

 

A poor black kid from the inner city, becomes a big time football player, brings in millions upon millions of dollars to USC, the PAC 10, college football, and the NCAA, which benifits countless other college athletic programs across the country.

 

Then some really rich alum, wants to donate a house to his mom, and give away other goodies to some kids on the team.

 

I struggle to see any wrong in this. How is it any different than the school giving him a scholarship or that rich man donating to habitat for humanity? So a rich guy is gonna give a house to a poor person.... QUICK ARREST EVERYONE AND PUNISH THEM!!!!! TAKE AWAY WINS, TAKE AWAY THE HEISMAN!!!!!

 

It wasn't a rich alum who paid the rent on a house his mother and step dad stayed at. It was a sleazy agent who funneled money to the family. When Reggie Bush decided to go with another agent the jilted agent turned Bush and the university in to the NCAA.

[Thoner7]

It wasn't a rich alum who paid the rent on a house his mother and step dad stayed at. It was a sleazy agent who funneled money to the family. When Reggie Bush decided to go with another agent the jilted agent turned Bush and the university in to the NCAA.

 

Well I simplified it, but the agent was/is rich.

 

And besided, how does that change my point? A guy with money donated it to people without money. Whats the problem with that?