Booker Edgerson To Be 2010 Inductee To Bills Wall of Fame

[Rico]

Nice anecdote, Jim. Glad to see you post and I assume that you still regularly patrol the board.

 

Any thoughts on Lou and Cookie?

 

Any former Bills you think might be more deserving than Booker Edgerson?

 

There are many excellent players who wore the uniform who had the bad fortune to play on terrible teams.

 

Conversely there are some average to better-than-average players who had the good fortune to play on great teams.

 

For instance, does anyone who watched them play think that Booker Edgerson was a better player than Butch Byrd, Tony Greene, Steve Freeman, or Mark Kelso?

Absolutely better than the 3 in bold. Booker was a complete CB; the 3 safeties were very good (Freeman), decent (Greene), and mediocre (Kelso).

 

Congrats Booker!

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Interestingly, Mr. Gehman, Edgerson picked the same game you did for his chapter in Sal's book.

 

My own humble submission: http://www.twobillsdrive.com/buffalo-bills/game-day/1174/

Nice work, Lori. As I said earlier, if not here, where? If not now, when?

 

To that end, it should be pointed out that if it were not for Lou Saban, Booker probably would have never been a Buffalo Bill, seeing as Booker played for Lou in college and later followed him to Denver (along with Collier, I believe). Again Lou's work in bringing honor to the franchise is being ignored by the franchise...and the naming of Edgerson to the Wall (which I'm not opposed to) only gives the snub of Saban an even more ironic twist.

 

It is not, but after talking to several members of the committee, I wouldn't be surprised to see it up there in the next few years.

Well yes. Polian and Wilson buried the hatchet years ago, so now Polian comes into play. But he needn't have had to bury the hatchet in the first place.

 

Polian was the architect of the Super Bowl teams.

 

If the Wall was truly merit-based (which it is CLEARLY NOT), it shouldn't matter at all how Ralph feels about Polian.

[San Jose Bills Fan]

Absolutely better than the 3 in bold. Booker was a complete CB; the 3 safeties were very good (Freeman), decent (Greene), and mediocre (Kelso).

 

Congrats Booker!

Yeah, oddly I remember Butch Byrd (I started watching the team in 1968) but have only the most fleeting recollections of Booker Edgerson.

 

I think I'd put Tony Greene a shade over Freeman but I agree with you that both were better than Kelso.

 

But Kelso had the benefit of playing on those great teams.

[Lori]

SJ, I agree with you on Saban, but it's not happening.

 

As for the Wall not being merit-based, tell me who doesn't belong up there. I probably would've gone for Byrd first too ... until I started talking to the guys who covered that team. It's the same argument people used (and some still do) against Dick LeBeau for the Hall of Fame -- he has a ton of INTs, but he also played opposite two corners who were already in the Hall, Night Train Lane and Lem Barney, for most of his career. If you're a QB, are you throwing at Night Train or "the other guy"?

 

And that's not meant as a knock on Byrd. They were both darn good. In fact, I think putting them up together would have been pretty cool, but the Bills want to focus on one inductee per season. (2000, with Kalsu's posthumous induction in addition to George Saimes, and 2001, when Smerlas was the choice but they HAD to put Kelly up before his HOF vote, were the only exceptions.)

[San Jose Bills Fan]

SJ, I agree with you on Saban, but it's not happening.

 

As for the Wall not being merit-based, tell me who doesn't belong up there.

Lori, to me it's not a matter of who is on the Wall that is not deserving...it's a matter of who is NOT on the Wall that IS deserving.

 

My position from the beginning (well before this thread) was that Saban and Cookie Gilchrist deserve to be on the Wall.

 

Until that happens, the Wall, in my eyes, is not TRULY merit-based.

 

The intention of the committee is undoubtedly that the honor is merit-based.

 

It is certainly arguable that the Wall is at least mostly merit based.

 

But if a single deserving candidate (not to mention two) is not being considered (and is being disqualified for personal reasons), then it cannot be a truly merit-based honor.

[JohnC]

I hate to rain on Booker's parade...

 

However, as Bills fans, what other leverage do we have if we want to make our opinions known to the committee which selects players to the Wall of Fame?

 

Kudos, JohnC.

 

Saban and Cookie are long overdue to be honored by the Bills. At this point, until they are on the Wall, it makes this exercise of putting honorees on the Wall, a sham.

 

Arguably, no two Buffalo Bills have been more instrumental in bringing glory and acclaim to the franchise than Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist.

 

Even more than Ralph's mediocre winning percentage (the Bills are 24th all time in NFL winning percentage), the thing I hold against him above all is his denial of the recognition that these two men have so richly deserved for so long.

 

The way Ralph operates, Harvey Johnson and Stew Barber are more likely to be Wall honorees than Saban and Gilchrist.

 

Truly a shameful situation.

 

In Ralph's world loyalty is a one way street. You are totally loyal to him or you are on the outside looking in.

He is not the type to forget a grudge. One of the few times that Ralph Wilson acted out of character related to John Butler. Ralph Wilson felt that Butler betrayed him when he refused a contract extension and left for the San Diego job. John Butler felt that the owner short pocketed him with his embarrassing contract offer and, in addition, he got tired of Wilson's interference. So Wilson fired Butler who was at the end of his contract. It was essentially a moot point because Butler was determined to get away from the irrascible owner.

 

When Ralph Wilson found out that John Butler was dying from cancer Wilson made the call to Butler to end this feud and patch things up with this near to death former employee. That was the right thing to do and the gracious thing to do.

 

The very circuitous point that I am making is that the grudge that the owner has toward Lou Saban for quitting on him should be forgotten and forgiven. Saban was a very odd fellow who eventually quit on everyone. He was the type of person who was constantly on the move. Both Saban and Cookie Gilchrist played very prominent roles in the history of the franchise. It can not be denied that both were very strong willed people who were not easy to deal with. In spite of their challenging personality traits they still deserve to be on the Wall.

[Jim Gehman]

Nice anecdote, Jim. Glad to see you post and I assume that you still regularly patrol the board.

 

Any thoughts on Lou and Cookie?

 

Any former Bills you think might be more deserving than Booker Edgerson?

 

There are many excellent players who wore the uniform who had the bad fortune to play on terrible teams.

 

Conversely there are some average to better-than-average players who had the good fortune to play on great teams.

 

For instance, does anyone who watched them play think that Booker Edgerson was a better player than Butch Byrd, Tony Greene, Steve Freeman, or Mark Kelso?

 

More deserving? No. As deserving? Absolutely. In addition to Byrd, Saban, and Gilchrist; a couple others come to mind.

 

Shane Nelson. His career was unfortunately cut short because of a knee injury, but Fred Smerlas and Jim Haslett will tell you that Shane was not only the heart and soul of the “Bermuda Triangle,” but of the entire defense.

 

Jerry Butler, who also had his career shortened because of a knee injury, was a thrill to watch. Simply put, he made the game better because he was in it.

 

Jerry and Shane were great football players, but they are even better people.

[Buftex]

More deserving? No. As deserving? Absolutely. In addition to Byrd, Saban, and Gilchrist; a couple others come to mind.

 

Shane Nelson. His career was unfortunately cut short because of a knee injury, but Fred Smerlas and Jim Haslett will tell you that Shane was not only the heart and soul of the “Bermuda Triangle,” but of the entire defense.

 

Jerry Butler, who also had his career shortened because of a knee injury, was a thrill to watch. Simply put, he made the game better because he was in it.

 

Jerry and Shane were great football players, but they are even better people.

 

 

Agreed!

 

Booker was a little before my time, but I did have a chance to meet him once, prior to a Bills game...seemed like a class act, much in the mold of Jerry Butler.

 

For me, Jerry Butler was, possibly, my favorite Buffalo Bill of all time. I honestly think, had it not been for the knee injuries, he would have ended up being mentioned in the same breath as some of the greatest wide receivers of his era, if not all time. When healthy, he was a thrill to watch. And, I can tell you from personal experience, he is one of the most decent men to ever play for the Bills. One of the worst things that happened when Tom Donohoe came to Buffalo, was that he canned many staff members...Butler was one of them. He was, at one time, head of the Bills alumni association. I know, from there, he went on to be an assistant for the Cleveland Browns...not sure where he is now.

[Rico]

Yeah, oddly I remember Butch Byrd (I started watching the team in 1968) but have only the most fleeting recollections of Booker Edgerson.

 

I think I'd put Tony Greene a shade over Freeman but I agree with you that both were better than Kelso.

 

But Kelso had the benefit of playing on those great teams.

It's been so long now... but I remember Greene being a superior playmaker but inferior in run support. I think Freeman was a better all around player.

[Lori]

Agreed!

 

Booker was a little before my time, but I did have a chance to meet him once, prior to a Bills game...seemed like a class act, much in the mold of Jerry Butler.

 

For me, Jerry Butler was, possibly, my favorite Buffalo Bill of all time. I honestly think, had it not been for the knee injuries, he would have ended up being mentioned in the same breath as some of the greatest wide receivers of his era, if not all time. When healthy, he was a thrill to watch. And, I can tell you from personal experience, he is one of the most decent men to ever play for the Bills. One of the worst things that happened when Tom Donohoe came to Buffalo, was that he canned many staff members...Butler was one of them. He was, at one time, head of the Bills alumni association. I know, from there, he went on to be an assistant for the Cleveland Browns...not sure where he is now.

Still there, far as I know: Cleveland Browns Front Office

 

And one other thing signified by Booker's selection: guys like Byrd and Butler still have a chance. A few years back, I was told that once the committee started inducting the Super Bowl-era players, it was going to be near-impossible for anyone before that period to make it.

[K-Gun10]

PUT VAN MILLER ON THE WALLL

[bills_fan]

Still there, far as I know: Cleveland Browns Front Office

 

And one other thing signified by Booker's selection: guys like Byrd and Butler still have a chance. A few years back, I was told that once the committee started inducting the Super Bowl-era players, it was going to be near-impossible for anyone before that period to make it.

 

 

Lori

 

Who is on the committee? Would they ever consider Cookie or has that ship long since sailed?

[Lori]

Some interesting soundbites from today's media sitdown with Edgerson, including one on the play I wrote about:

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/201...ll-of-fame.html

 

Cookie's is a little different situation than Saban. I was told several years ago that he's actually been invited back to some of the AFL reunions, Alumni Days, and such, but demanded an appearance fee and refused to show up otherwise. If that's true, I can see the team saying, "Never mind."

 

There also used to be a cookiegilchrist.com site floating around the Web where he called RCWjr. a slaveowner, but I don't know if it still exists.

 

I'll check, but I'm not sure I can publicly ID the members of the committee. Sorry. (You can probably guess who the majority of the media representatives are, though. And of course, Ralph has a vote.)

[JohnC]

Some interesting soundbites from today's media sitdown with Edgerson, including one on the play I wrote about:

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/201...ll-of-fame.html

 

Cookie's is a little different situation than Saban. I was told several years ago that he's actually been invited back to some of the AFL reunions, Alumni Days, and such, but demanded an appearance fee and refused to show up otherwise. If that's true, I can see the team saying, "Never mind."

 

There also used to be a cookiegilchrist.com site floating around the Web where he called RCWjr. a slaveowner, but I don't know if it still exists.

 

I'll check, but I'm not sure I can publicly ID the members of the committee. Sorry. (You can probably guess who the majority of the media representatives are, though. And of course, Ralph has a vote.)

 

Lori, If Cookie made some disparging comments about the owner, so what. That doesn't take away from the fact that he was a very central player in the team's history. Cookie was a very proud and strong willed person with a strong streak of being anti-authority. That is who he was. He was mule-headed-as is our owner.

 

Even if Cookie wouldn't show up for his presentation that still shouldn't detract from the fact that he deserves (more than a large # already placed on that wall) to be on that wall. Being placed on the Wall is an acknowledgement of one's special place in the history of the franchise. People with prickly and unfavorable personality traits shouldn't have their accumulated accomplishments ignored as if they have never happened. Let's face it the Bills' owner is more known for his irrascibility than he is for his congeneality. And he has a public payed for stadium named after him.

 

As San Jose Bill has astutely observed that not having Lou Saban and Cookie Gilchrist on the Wall diminishes the significance of being on that wall. The owner's small-minded behavior in this matter is one of the many reasons why I don't have much regard for him.

[26CornerBlitz]

Some interesting soundbites from today's media sitdown with Edgerson, including one on the play I wrote about:

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/201...ll-of-fame.html

 

Cookie's is a little different situation than Saban. I was told several years ago that he's actually been invited back to some of the AFL reunions, Alumni Days, and such, but demanded an appearance fee and refused to show up otherwise. If that's true, I can see the team saying, "Never mind."

 

There also used to be a cookiegilchrist.com site floating around the Web where he called RCWjr. a slaveowner, but I don't know if it still exists.

 

I'll check, but I'm not sure I can publicly ID the members of the committee. Sorry. (You can probably guess who the majority of the media representatives are, though. And of course, Ralph has a vote.)

 

 

http://www.cookiegilchrist.net/

[26CornerBlitz]

PUT VAN MILLER ON THE WALLL

VANtastic Idea!!!

[Just Jack]

PUT VAN MILLER ON THE WALLL

VANtastic Idea!!!

Van has a whole club with his name on it.

http://www.buffalobills.com/tickets/premiu...-club-seat.html

[bills_fan]

Some interesting soundbites from today's media sitdown with Edgerson, including one on the play I wrote about:

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/201...ll-of-fame.html

 

Cookie's is a little different situation than Saban. I was told several years ago that he's actually been invited back to some of the AFL reunions, Alumni Days, and such, but demanded an appearance fee and refused to show up otherwise. If that's true, I can see the team saying, "Never mind."

 

There also used to be a cookiegilchrist.com site floating around the Web where he called RCWjr. a slaveowner, but I don't know if it still exists.

 

I'll check, but I'm not sure I can publicly ID the members of the committee. Sorry. (You can probably guess who the majority of the media representatives are, though. And of course, Ralph has a vote.)

 

 

Understood. I have no idea if it is public or not. If not, no worries.

[Bob in STL]

no, thanks for helping me make my case, i would rate butch byrd higher than edgerson. this is just a "feel good" pick.

 

 

Tough call here. Byrd had more interceptions than Edgerson and was an excellent punt returner. Edgerson was the shutdown corner of the two so the may have kept away from him. He held Alworth in check in both championship games. He consistently drew the tough assignments. No one who watched him play will argue with it.

 

That said, Lou Saban should be the one to go on. Come on Ralph, you remember Lou!

[Bob in STL]

Some interesting soundbites from today's media sitdown with Edgerson, including one on the play I wrote about:

http://blogs.buffalonews.com/billboard/201...ll-of-fame.html

 

Cookie's is a little different situation than Saban. I was told several years ago that he's actually been invited back to some of the AFL reunions, Alumni Days, and such, but demanded an appearance fee and refused to show up otherwise. If that's true, I can see the team saying, "Never mind."

 

There also used to be a cookiegilchrist.com site floating around the Web where he called RCWjr. a slaveowner, but I don't know if it still exists.

 

I'll check, but I'm not sure I can publicly ID the members of the committee. Sorry. (You can probably guess who the majority of the media representatives are, though. And of course, Ralph has a vote.)

 

Cookie asking for money? Of course! That's him alright.