Incredible QB story discussing Brohm and others

[F UNC]

BROHM!!

Yep, I value accuracy #1 assuming the QB has at least decent arm strength...the top QBs today have incredible accuracy and quick releases (impt) --> Manning, Rivers, Brady, Brees - all known for accuracy and getting the ball out of their hands on time. Brohm has those qualities.

[bfw1234]

Yep, I value accuracy #1 assuming the QB has at least decent arm strength...the top QBs today have incredible accuracy and quick releases (impt) --> Manning, Rivers, Brady, Brees - all known for accuracy and getting the ball out of their hands on time. Brohm has those qualities.

 

yes - he is a pro-typical pocket passer! not a guy running an option spread! give him a wall and he will excell; also, I've never known a question re his arm strength. further, I don't need mobile, are the mannings mobile?, rivers?, brady?, warner?, kelly? marino?

[OldTimer1960]

Clearly, they're not. However he also gets extremely high grades on football intelligence, leadership, and work ethic. (unlike some question marks other QBs in this draft have (cough, Clausen, cough). In other words, he's the comlete package.

 

Of course he still may flop, but lets be honest, all we can really go off of are college numbers.

 

I disagree, I think that him not even making the active roster in GB one year after being a 2nd round pick

speaks volumes about him. Now, I am not saying that he might not become a good QB, just that it certainly

doesn't seem likely given his NFL career to date.

[bfw1234]

to be fair, here is the anti-brohm argument - the author points out what I saw of Brohm - the pro-typcial size and arm strength; yeah he got hurt but like the author noted, he has gotten 2 years to learn, so now is his time to shine b/c he is a natural qb - watch it happen!

 

http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=...mp;Itemid=1SELL - NOT WORTH A ROUND 1 PICK

 

 

By Wesley Blood

At first glance, Brian Brohm looks like an NFL ready prospect, his 6-4, 225 pound frame entices scouts, his arm is excellent, he can make every throw, and he is mobile enough to avoid the pass rush. But what really scares scouts is his durability. He tore his ACL during his sophomore year and this past year he was injured twice, requiring surgery on his left shoulder and tearing ligaments in his thumb.

 

When I was first asked if Brian Brohm is worth a first round pick, I had to ask myself if it was for the 2007 or 2008 NFL draft. In 2007 the answer would have most definitely been yes. In fact many people probably would’ve said he would go at number 8 to the Falcons to reunite with his old Louisville coach Bobby Petrino. But since the year is in fact 2008, and seeing the regression Brohm had last year without Petrino, I tend to lean toward him not being worth a first round pick. Whether the injuries were just too much to overcome, or whether in fact he did struggle without Petrino remains to be seen. But before any franchise spends millions in guaranteed money they need to look at the history of this kid. ACL injuries aren’t as serious as they once were and especially with Brohm playing quarterback they are even less serious, but once you tend to have thumb and shoulder concerns that’s when eyes open wide and scouts think twice about spending a top pick on a oft injured quarterback.

 

Can Brohm eventually become a quality quarterback in the NFL? Possibly. Can he become a quality NFL quarterback in his first couple seasons? The answer is no. Given the right team and the right situation Brohm has all of the necessary skills and the physical attributes to lead an NFL team. Being a first round pick actually may be more of a burden than a blessing for Brohm in the long run. If he stays out of the first round and out of the limelight for one, maybe two years and sits back and takes notes, he would be drastically better and also would make people forget about all of those injuries he accumulated in college. However if he does get drafted in the first round, especially for a lower tier franchise the fans may be calling upon him to lead them a little too early. The pressure will mount, and who knows, he might even get injured in the process.

[F UNC]

I disagree, I think that him not even making the active roster in GB one year after being a 2nd round pick

speaks volumes about him. Now, I am not saying that he might not become a good QB, just that it certainly

doesn't seem likely given his NFL career to date.

 

Fair, but premature. So the kid was beaten out for the BACKUP role to Rodgers b/c Flynn was more prepared to be in that role. Neither guy was going to play unless Rodgers got hurt. Flynn has good tools for that role after having played starting QB the year prior at LSU. It wasn't like Flynn was/is a bum.

 

Brohm will get a chance this offseason and I bet he is better prepared and gets a legit shot for once. The O-Line will be much better this upcoming season.

[F UNC]

to be fair, here is the anti-brohm argument - the author points out what I saw of Brohm - the pro-typcial size and arm strength; yeah he got hurt but like the author noted, he has gotten 2 years to learn, so now is his time to shine b/c he is a natural qb - watch it happen!

 

http://warroomreport.com/index.php?option=...mp;Itemid=1SELL - NOT WORTH A ROUND 1 PICK

 

 

By Wesley Blood

At first glance, Brian Brohm looks like an NFL ready prospect, his 6-4, 225 pound frame entices scouts, his arm is excellent, he can make every throw, and he is mobile enough to avoid the pass rush. But what really scares scouts is his durability. He tore his ACL during his sophomore year and this past year he was injured twice, requiring surgery on his left shoulder and tearing ligaments in his thumb.

 

When I was first asked if Brian Brohm is worth a first round pick, I had to ask myself if it was for the 2007 or 2008 NFL draft. In 2007 the answer would have most definitely been yes. In fact many people probably would’ve said he would go at number 8 to the Falcons to reunite with his old Louisville coach Bobby Petrino. But since the year is in fact 2008, and seeing the regression Brohm had last year without Petrino, I tend to lean toward him not being worth a first round pick. Whether the injuries were just too much to overcome, or whether in fact he did struggle without Petrino remains to be seen. But before any franchise spends millions in guaranteed money they need to look at the history of this kid. ACL injuries aren’t as serious as they once were and especially with Brohm playing quarterback they are even less serious, but once you tend to have thumb and shoulder concerns that’s when eyes open wide and scouts think twice about spending a top pick on a oft injured quarterback.

 

Can Brohm eventually become a quality quarterback in the NFL? Possibly. Can he become a quality NFL quarterback in his first couple seasons? The answer is no. Given the right team and the right situation Brohm has all of the necessary skills and the physical attributes to lead an NFL team. Being a first round pick actually may be more of a burden than a blessing for Brohm in the long run. If he stays out of the first round and out of the limelight for one, maybe two years and sits back and takes notes, he would be drastically better and also would make people forget about all of those injuries he accumulated in college. However if he does get drafted in the first round, especially for a lower tier franchise the fans may be calling upon him to lead them a little too early. The pressure will mount, and who knows, he might even get injured in the process.

 

Are injuries really the risk now though? Edwards is fragile and Fitzy is merely a stop gap. McNabb would be 33. Bradford and McKoy are coming off injuries. Tebow hasn't taken snaps under center and has a slow release. Lefevour is a project with plenty of questions. Clausen showed up at Notre Dame in a limo and promised 4 Natl Titles. Last I checked, that didn't happen. I vote Brohm and a rookie and Brohm will start.

[bfw1234]

Are injuries really the risk now though? Edwards is fragile and Fitzy is merely a stop gap. McNabb would be 33. Bradford and McKoy are coming off injuries. Tebow hasn't taken snaps under center and has a slow release. Lefevour is a project with plenty of questions. Clausen showed up at Notre Dame in a limo and promised 4 Natl Titles. Last I checked, that didn't happen. I vote Brohm and a rookie and Brohm will start.

 

 

no, injuries are not an issue for Brohm - he is a physical qb and resembles JK very much in size and throwing motion, etc. I point that out, because the author notes Brohm's strong arm. Brohm ran a pro set in college, has all the physical tools, has been a stud qb his entire life - he will revert to form in Buffalo. he is a pocket passer who needs protection (just like manning, brady, etc!) It is prudent to get a vet in to compete with Brohm, Fitz but start Brohm - in 2 years, this team could be very good with the young nucleus.

[bobobonators]

I disagree, I think that him not even making the active roster in GB one year after being a 2nd round pick

speaks volumes about him. Now, I am not saying that he might not become a good QB, just that it certainly

doesn't seem likely given his NFL career to date.

 

My post was referring to Bradford, not Brohm.

[atlbillsfan1975]

To me it seems like when Brohm had a good coach, Petrino, he succeeded. He has not had a good qb coach it seems like since he has gotten to the NFL. Gailey is credited as being a good qb coach. Or maybe hire Brohm brother to coach him lik ehe did at Louisville. If nothing else may have your number two qb for the next ten years.

[bfw1234]

he will be fine

[BillsVet]

Sorry to burst your little bubble but you are incorrect. I just did a rundown of every QB to start an NFL game in 2008. (The 2009 list was not available on Wikipedia) Of the 53 players to start an NFL regular season game at QB in 2008 only 22, that's 42%, were drafted in the first or second round. The other 31 were drafted 3rd round or later, or undrafted.

 

What happens when you take the backups out? It becomes 50/50. 16 QBs were drafted in Rounds 1 & 2, 16 were not. So this shows, at least in 2008, that where a QB is drafted makes no difference as to whether he becomes a starter.

 

List of NFL starting QBs 2008

 

PTR

 

This thread is turning into a Rahm Emanuel thing. Your comparison, in essence, means that if Bruce Gradkowski starts a game, it carries as much weight as someone like Peyton Manning.

 

It's not the quantity of starting QB's and how they're acquired. It's the quality for goodness sakes. Quality QB's typically arrive via the first or second round of the NFL draft. While that's not to say they can't be found in rounds 3 and below or UDFA, the likelihood is extremely small.

 

When I think quality starting QBs, I'm thinking Brady, Flacco, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Schaub, P. Manning, Rivers, Romo, E. Manning, McNabb, Cutler, Rodgers, Favre, Ryan, Brees, and Warner. 12 of those guys are first rounders, or 75%.

[DarthICE]

Fair, but premature. So the kid was beaten out for the BACKUP role to Rodgers b/c Flynn was more prepared to be in that role. Neither guy was going to play unless Rodgers got hurt. Flynn has good tools for that role after having played starting QB the year prior at LSU. It wasn't like Flynn was/is a bum.

 

Brohm will get a chance this offseason and I bet he is better prepared and gets a legit shot for once. The O-Line will be much better this upcoming season.

 

Flynn IS a bum. You are trying to make him out to be better than he is to support your quest to convince us Brohm is a starter in this league. Brohm is nothing more than a clipboard holder in this league.

 

If we want to succeed we better find a damn good QB and we don't have one on this current roster.

[PromoTheRobot]

This thread is turning into a Rahm Emanuel thing. Your comparison, in essence, means that if Bruce Gradkowski starts a game, it carries as much weight as someone like Peyton Manning.

 

It's not the quantity of starting QB's and how they're acquired. It's the quality for goodness sakes. Quality QB's typically arrive via the first or second round of the NFL draft. While that's not to say they can't be found in rounds 3 and below or UDFA, the likelihood is extremely small.

 

When I think quality starting QBs, I'm thinking Brady, Flacco, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Schaub, P. Manning, Rivers, Romo, E. Manning, McNabb, Cutler, Rodgers, Favre, Ryan, Brees, and Warner. 12 of those guys are first rounders, or 75%.

You didn't read my post, did you? I eliminated the backups that started, and even with that it was 50/50 between QB's that were drafted in the first two rounds and those who weren't. So there is no difference, unless you are going to start playing the game of saying so-and-so isn't any good and therefore shouldn't count. Do we have to go line by line??

 

2008 starting QBs:

 

Bills - Trent Edwards - rd 3

Pats* - Tom Brady - rd 6

Browns - Derek Anderson - rd 6

Texans - Matt Schaub - rd 3

Jaguars - David Garrard - rd 4

Chiefs - Tyler Thigpen - undrafted

Cowboys - Tony Romo - undrafted

Bears - Kyle Orton - rd 4

Lions - Dan Orlovski - rd 5

Panthers - Jake Delhomme - undrafted

Bucs - Jeff Garcia - undrafted

Cardinals - Kurt Warner - undrafted

Rams - Marc Bulger - rd 6

49ers - JT O'Sullivan - rd 6

Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck - rd 6

------------------------------------------

Dolphins - Chad Pennington - rd 1

Jets - Brett Favre - rd 2

Ravens - Joe Flacco - rd 1

Bengals - Carson Palmer - rd 1

Steelers - Ben Rothlesberger - rd 1

Colts - Peyton Manning - rd 1

Titans - Kerry Collins - rd 1

Broncos - Jay Cutler - rd 1

Raiders - JaMarcus Russell - rd 1

Chargers - Phillip Rivers - rd 1

Giants - Eli Manning - rd 1

Eagles - Donavan McNabb - rd 1

Redskins - Jason Campbell - rd 1

Packers - Aaron Rogers - rd 1

Vikings - Travaris Jackson - rd 2

Falcons - Matt Ryan - rd 1

Saints - Drew Brees - rd 2

 

PTR

[garbag3man]

You know Graham Harrell, Colt Brennan and Timmy Chong all put up monstrous stats in college and all can't even cut it in the CFL. Stats aren't everything.

 

I have seen this in a few different places, why does everyone believe that Colt Brennan is in the CFL. He is under contract with the Redskins and was injured all season, after a somewhat impressive pre season.

[sabres...yawn]

No doubt impressive regardless of where one plays...but he plays in the MAC.

 

Like Rothlsliberger and Pennington and Leftwich.

[starrymessenger]

I think, in the case of Brohm, it is necessary to temper our enthousiam with a measure of realism. True, given the circumstances in which we acquired him, he is a low risk proposition (but for the roster spot and the resources expended in attempting to develop him). But it is also the case that he represents a low probable reward proposition at this point in time.

He has the physical tools. His arm, despite conflicting reports, is plenty strong enough. Sure he had a serious injury but he has reovered and the Cardinals difficulties his senior year were more on the defensive side of the ball, not the O (his numbers were good).

Although people say that he played in a pro-style offence in college, implying I suppose that he is therefore more pro-ready, the truth is that Louisville's offence was 2/3 spread 1/3 power 1. More importantly, under both coaches it was essentially a "one read" scheme for the QB. In other words he knew exactly where he was going with the ball on every snap. This is light years from having to deal with the complexities that NFL defences bring to the equation, requiring progressions, anticipation and good, quick decision making.

Brohm's problems therefore actually have much less to do with his physical skills than with transitioning mentally to the pro game. Hence his time in GB was characterized by an inability to read and react to pro defences, an inability to go downfeild (despite the weapons) and inevitably an abundance of checkdowns. Sound familiar? (BTW checkdowns are fine, as long as you can also go downfield, like Brees and Manning. Its when you have no choice but to check down that you are dead meat).

I wish Brohm every success, and that whether he pursues his career in Buffalo or elsewhere. Like I said, the challenges he is facing are however considerable and we need to be sensible in our expectations.

[BillsVet]

You didn't read my post, did you? I eliminated the backups that started, and even with that it was 50/50 between QB's that were drafted in the first two rounds and those who weren't. So there is no difference, unless you are going to start playing the game of saying so-and-so isn't any good and therefore shouldn't count. Do we have to go line by line??

 

Name your QBs then. I'll guarantee the vast majority of solid starting NFL QB's in 2009 were from the first or second round.

[Albany,n.y.]

First of all you clearly have no clue what a bust is if you can label a player who has started one game a bust.

 

Secondly, nobody in the league wanted Brady either...he fell to the 6th round. Teams passed on him 6 times. Nobody wanted Kurt Warner either...I can go on and on with examples of this...So, whats your point with that? I mean, Bill Walsh also loved Trent Edwards, Jim Drunkenmiller and JJ Stokes...how did they turn out?

 

So clearly the great football minds dont always get things right. Not to mention when Brohm was put on PS it was right when the season was about to start when teams were already set at QB. Do you even know how difficult it would be for a second year QB to come in at the start of the regular season on a new team and be relevant? Next to impossible...which is exactly why GB waited so long to put him on PS to try and stash him. They had no room on the active roster for 3 QB's and it almost worked. A second year QB with ZERO experience and no offseason on a new team is not going to beat out their current backups. So he would have just been another PS player while he learned the system of a new team anyway.

 

As far as his arm is concerned, most people spouting off on his arm strength (including lame media types) dont really know much about him. Going into the draft, it was reported (and since has been recapped in articles about Brohm sine he joined Buffalo) that he was second to only Flacco in arm strength at the combine and not by much.

 

And to address your question about why GB didnt try and exceed Buffalos offer...why on earth would they? They are already set at QB with a young top 5 QB in Rodgers and a young backup they love. So why would they want to pay a 3rd string QB more than their current 2nd string QB? They have way more needs than paying for a player dont need just to keep him from Buffalo. Not to mention, Brohm would have turned it down anyway knowing full well he will never be a starter in GB with Rodgers there who looks to be a dominant QB for years to come.

You made some good points in the post you made prior to the one I'm quoting, but this one is a little less convincing than that other really good one.

The problem with your 1st sentence is that it doesn't match what goes on in the real NFL. Players who have started one game or fewer are labled busts & cut all the time. They are judged, cut & many never play another down. When that happens to a high pick and the team is putting him on waivers, that team has labeled him a bust. When nobody claims him, 31 teams are agreeing with them. If you follow the same path as your statement, then Gibran Hamden has a ton of upside, after all he was NFLE's MVP in 2006 & doesn't have enough game experience to be labled a washout.

Brady is a bad example of nobody wanting him. I'm not talking draft choices & where they were picked, I'm talking about a waived player. Yes Brady was picked in the 6th, but in the 1st year NE saw enough of him & was too afraid others might claim him so instead of waiving him and trying to put him on a practice squad, they kept him on the 53 man roster. NE, recognizing they had something more than your average 6th round pick, kept 4 QBs on the roster his rookie year. Brady was never waived once NE drafted him-unlike Brohm. At the same point in his career as Brohm is at, Brady led his team to a Super Bowl championship. It's irrelevant what people thought of these players out of college. The bad ones, no matter where drafted get waived. In the modern NFL QBs who get picked in the 1st 3 rounds and are quickly cut are busts. Their getting waived is based on NFL data, not their college career.

I can't accept the premise that nobody could make any room for Brohm. 1st off, any team that would be putting a claim in on him would be viewing him as a 3rd stringer, he wouldn't need to be ready for action in 2010 for a long time anyway. Much like the bunch of QB 6th rounders in the 2009 draft that were kept as 3rd stringers on the opening day rosters. A lot of the teams had some really weak guys as their 3rd stringers, yet nobody tried to steal Brohm & end up being a smarter guy than the rest. Clearly the preseason tapes on Brohm, which all 31 other teams had, didn't have GMs jumping up & down. Here are some of the 3rd stringers that teams kept over putting a claim in for Brohm: Atl-Wilson, Cin- J. Palmer, Ariz-St Pierre, Stl-Null, Sea-Teel, SF-Davis, Indy-Painter, Balt-Beck (another 2nd round bust), Den-Brandstater, and the Bills, who kept Trent's buddy Gibran Hamdan until Trent was benched. Surely, if Brohm was viewed in the same light by NFL decision makers as his supporters here, there would have been multiple waiver claims to put Brohm on the roster over at least some of the guys I've mentioned in this paragraph. Most of those guys weren't any more ready to take an NFL snap than Brohm, and considering Brohm had a full season of experience on an NFL team & 2 camps, he was probably a lot more ready than most of the rookies listed.

Since I've never worked out Brohm with a juggs gun, I'll pass on debating his arm strength over others.

As far as my question posed, you're right why would they-the only reason to keep him would be to groom him & trade him, and the NFL teams had already indicated that they weren't going to give up anything for him, as evidenced by his lack of any waiver claim. Just to put it in perspective, when NE waived 2008 3rd round QB Kevin O'Connell, the 1st team able, Detroit, picked him up on waivers and after he spent a couple of preseason games in Detroit, they shipped him to the Jets for a 7th rounder. The Jets though enough of O'Connell to make the room that you claim teams didn't have and put him on the 53 man roster as a 4th stringer. Clearly if just one team was as high on Brohm as the Jets were on O'Connell, he would have been claimed, or someone would have offered GB at low round pick, which didn't happen like the Lions & Jets did with O'Connell. Now the Jets might have just wanted O'Connell to pick his brain on NE, but if that was the case he wouldn't have lasted the year on the roster like he did.

[BillsVet]

You didn't read my post, did you? I eliminated the backups that started, and even with that it was 50/50 between QB's that were drafted in the first two rounds and those who weren't. So there is no difference, unless you are going to start playing the game of saying so-and-so isn't any good and therefore shouldn't count. Do we have to go line by line??

 

2008 starting QBs:

 

Bills - Trent Edwards - rd 3

Pats* - Tom Brady - rd 6

Browns - Derek Anderson - rd 6

Texans - Matt Schaub - rd 3

Jaguars - David Garrard - rd 4

Chiefs - Tyler Thigpen - undrafted

Cowboys - Tony Romo - undrafted

Bears - Kyle Orton - rd 4

Lions - Dan Orlovski - rd 5

Panthers - Jake Delhomme - undrafted

Bucs - Jeff Garcia - undrafted

Cardinals - Kurt Warner - undrafted

Rams - Marc Bulger - rd 6

49ers - JT O'Sullivan - rd 6

Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck - rd 6

------------------------------------------

Dolphins - Chad Pennington - rd 1

Jets - Brett Favre - rd 2

Ravens - Joe Flacco - rd 1

Bengals - Carson Palmer - rd 1

Steelers - Ben Rothlesberger - rd 1

Colts - Peyton Manning - rd 1

Titans - Kerry Collins - rd 1

Broncos - Jay Cutler - rd 1

Raiders - JaMarcus Russell - rd 1

Chargers - Phillip Rivers - rd 1

Giants - Eli Manning - rd 1

Eagles - Donavan McNabb - rd 1

Redskins - Jason Campbell - rd 1

Packers - Aaron Rogers - rd 1

Vikings - Travaris Jackson - rd 2

Falcons - Matt Ryan - rd 1

Saints - Drew Brees - rd 2

 

PTR

 

10 of these QB's aren't even starters anymore. I seriously doubt any of these 10 are starting in 2010, and thus I would constitute them as NFL retreads. Even if they were, are Dan Orlovsky, Tyler Thigpen, and Derek Anderson QUALITY starters?

 

I'd say half the teams in today's NFL have decent to excellent QB's. And of those, most have been taken in the first or second. There are exceptions, as well as first or second round bust QB's. Still, the odds of finding a franchise QB out of the first or second are small.

[bobobonators]

10 of these QB's aren't even starters anymore. I seriously doubt any of these 10 are starting in 2010, and thus I would constitute them as NFL retreads. Even if they were, are Dan Orlovsky, Tyler Thigpen, and Derek Anderson QUALITY starters?

 

I'd say half the teams in today's NFL have decent to excellent QB's. And of those, most have been taken in the first or second. There are exceptions, as well as first or second round bust QB's. Still, the odds of finding a franchise QB out of the first or second are small.

 

I agree with your overall point. Rather than just simply looking at a single year and saying, "so many QBs in the league were drafted in the 3rd round or later," a much better alternative would be to see how many starting QBs in the league with a certain amount of starts (lets say more than 40 (2.5 seasons roughly)) were drafted after the 3rd round. This to me would eliminate most of the crap QBs that are in the league...or do a method somewhere along those lines.

 

In 2008 Edwards was the starter for the Bills..would anyone really want to use him as proof that you can draft a successful QB in the 3rd round or later? Simply looking at a single year doesn't tell us anything really. (imo)