DarthICE Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If we are going to run the spread, we need a QB much better than what we have on this roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 STOP ALREADY!!! Edwards !@#$ing sucks! He can't make decisions worth a !@#$, can't stay healthy, has a weak arm... Enough of this Edwards horse ****. You mean make decisions as he's getting planted into the turf because our O-line can't pass protect properly. We see things differently, put TE behind a decent O-line/good coaching and Trent Edwards succeeds in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 If we are going to run the spread, we need a QB much better than what we have on this roster. ALSO...something people keep trying to diminish the importance of....the bigger your QB's arm the more field you can challenge If your noodle arm, ballless hurler can't throw the ball over 30yds in the air it's he's certainly not as effective at spreading/stretching the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 You mean make decisions as he's getting planted into the turf because our O-line can't pass protect properly. We see things differently, put TE behind a decent O-line/good coaching and Trent Edwards succeeds in my opinion. Dog, it's not always the line's fault. I have seen far too many plays in which Edwards had "all day" and couldn't pull the trigger. He does not have the confidence to throw the ball into tight spaces -- at least that's what I see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 QUOTE (dog14787 @ Feb 5 2010, 01:47 PM) * You mean make decisions as he's getting planted into the turf because our O-line can't pass protect properly. We see things differently, put TE behind a decent O-line/good coaching and Trent Edwards succeeds in my opinion. Dog, it's not always the line's fault. I have seen far too many plays in which Edwards had "all day" and couldn't pull the trigger. He does not have the confidence to throw the ball into tight spaces -- at least that's what I see. I changed my signature but it used to be a quote from Jim Kelly on Edwards. It was basically something to the same effect. When Edwards had his chances when the line held up he had no balls to get the job done and his accuracy was HORRIBLE. Some of it is on the line a lot of it is on Edwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Dog, it's not always the line's fault. I have seen far too many plays in which Edwards had "all day" and couldn't pull the trigger. He does not have the confidence to throw the ball into tight spaces -- at least that's what I see. TE has regressed , but what if along with poor protection your number one receiver refused to deviate from his route half the time and the other half let footballs bounce off his fat head. What if you had so many inexperienced OC's and changes in the Offense, going from no huddle to God knows what in such a short time span you lost confidence in the system. What if two concussions in under a 12 month period had a lasting effect on your decision making. What if all the odds stacked against TE where simply to much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 As to a spread vs traditional offense....the spread can work (see Colts, Saints, Pats), but is better suited for the Domes but it can work anywhere. The K Gun was basically a spread formation, so if you have a great trigger man you can run it. The best example of the traditional offense would the Cowboys with Emmitt, D Johnston, Aikman, Novacek, Irvin, and Harper. Again, that works too...but any darn offense revolves around the trigger man. While the K-Gun is a spread formation, it also should noted it was not the only offensive formation the Bills ran. The K-Gun revolved around the tight end, and was so named after the Bills Tight End, Keith McKeller. Like most "spread offenses" in the NFL today, none are run as the base offense, but are incorporated as part of the teams overall offensive package. Even the Senator's examples show the spread offense only being used as one tool in a teams offensive arsenal. This no different than how the Wildcat was going to "revolutionize" the NFL. After 2 years, most teams have figured out how to add it to their offensive package, but no team in their right mind is going to run it as their base offense. If people want to know what a full time base spread offense looks like, and how well it would operate in the NFL, then they need to look no further than the "Run 'N Shoot" (a/k/a the "Chuck 'N Duck", thank you Buddy!) The Run 'N Shoot was the last spread offense in the NFL designed to be run as the entire offensive package. When we find our QB, we can run whatever we want b/c it is all about the QB in the NFL. Yes, there are the few exceptions, when the D is so dominant, but those teams historically have not sustained dominance, whereas, the teams with great QBs can re-load year after year. I'd like to see Brohm get his shot at the role. He has the measurables, toughness, intelligence, leadership qualities, and arm to get it done and he is ready. IMHO, not without competition. Handing the starting QB position to a third string practice squad player is a disaster waiting to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennesseeboy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 ALSO...something people keep trying to diminish the importance of....the bigger your QB's arm the more field you can challenge If your noodle arm, ballless hurler can't throw the ball over 30yds in the air it's he's certainly not as effective at spreading/stretching the field. Not really...Mike Leach was extremely successful with the spread offense with quarterbacks who really weren't all that good, at least judging by later performance in the NFL. in fact one might argue that the Texas Tech spread was designed and implemented in part because Leach knew recruiting in that part of Texas would be a challenge and he had to make do with less than great players (at lest in the beginning). Now if this were the design I just don't know why we wouldn't have moved heaven and earth to get Mike Leach as OC. Gailey used the spread at KC as a last desperate attempt to get the team to a position to win a few games. I'm not sure he's a huge advocate of the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffmonster Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 You mean make decisions as he's getting planted into the turf because our O-line can't pass protect properly. We see things differently, put TE behind a decent O-line/good coaching and Trent Edwards succeeds in my opinion. Agreed the line is rubish, but don't use that excuse, Fitzpatrick had less sacks then TE did with more games played. TE is horrible at avoiding pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Not really...Mike Leach was extremely successful with the spread offense with quarterbacks who really weren't all that good, at least judging by later performance in the NFL. in fact one might argue that the Texas Tech spread was designed and implemented in part because Leach knew recruiting in that part of Texas would be a challenge and he had to make do with less than great players (at lest in the beginning). Now if this were the design I just don't know why we wouldn't have moved heaven and earth to get Mike Leach as OC. Gailey used the spread at KC as a last desperate attempt to get the team to a position to win a few games. I'm not sure he's a huge advocate of the system. Isn't that my point though? To spread the field in the NFL you need a big arm. Your scenarios support this assertion. Leach had success with some bad QBs in the college ranks but they stunk it up if they made it to the pros. Just talking about spreading the field before people drag up the corpse of Joe Montana or any other of a minute handful of successful QBs that didn't have a big arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Agreed the line is rubish, but don't use that excuse, Fitzpatrick had less sacks then TE did with more games played. TE is horrible at avoiding pressure. +100 We know this but some still hold a torch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaBill Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Isn't that my point though? To spread the field in the NFL you need a big arm. Your scenarios support this assertion. Leach had success with some bad QBs in the college ranks but they stunk it up if they made it to the pros. Just talking about spreading the field before people drag up the corpse of Joe Montana or any other of a minute handful of successful QBs that didn't have a big arm. no, what he is saying is that spread qb's don't need a big arm as much as they need to be quick decision makers, and good at the intermediate routes, thats why colleges have started running spreads, 5 star recruits are NOT a dime a dozen. Moving the chains is how it works, as long as the qb has an average arm, and makes the right reads it works, its easier to take a guy with decent arm and smart and make him a spread guy than it is to roll the dice on every big arm qb that comes down the pike and hope he works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F UNC Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 While the K-Gun is a spread formation, it also should noted it was not the only offensive formation the Bills ran. The K-Gun revolved around the tight end, and was so named after the Bills Tight End, Keith McKeller. Like most "spread offenses" in the NFL today, none are run as the base offense, but are incorporated as part of the teams overall offensive package. Even the Senator's examples show the spread offense only being used as one tool in a teams offensive arsenal. This no different than how the Wildcat was going to "revolutionize" the NFL. After 2 years, most teams have figured out how to add it to their offensive package, but no team in their right mind is going to run it as their base offense. If people want to know what a full time base spread offense looks like, and how well it would operate in the NFL, then they need to look no further than the "Run 'N Shoot" (a/k/a the "Chuck 'N Duck", thank you Buddy!) The Run 'N Shoot was the last spread offense in the NFL designed to be run as the entire offensive package. IMHO, not without competition. Handing the starting QB position to a third string practice squad player is a disaster waiting to happen. Yeah, we agree the K-Gun was multiple...it could do it all...was just saying it was spread sometimes. I also agree in competition at all positions. Brohm v McKoy or Clause or Lefevour or Bradford! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F UNC Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Yeah, we agree the K-Gun was multiple...it could do it all...was just saying it was spread sometimes. I also agree in competition at all positions. Brohm v McKoy or Clause or Lefevour or Bradford! I'd also like to see competition in mock drafts....couldn't resist! (sarcasm fellas, I like the poster, he shows good moxie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Haven't read the entire thread so if this point was already made, my apologies. The long and short (no pun intended) of the spread offense is this: it is EXTREMELY vulnerable at the edges. Unless you have 5 good OLmen, a QB that can make proper pre and post snap reads, as well as receivers who can do the same, you will be in a world of hurt trying to run it most of the time. Currently, I don't see the personnel in place on our team to make it successful more than once in a while. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Agreed the line is rubish, but don't use that excuse, Fitzpatrick had less sacks then TE did with more games played. TE is horrible at avoiding pressure. Excuse you say, Its funny how some folks will admit to O-line problems yet refuse to think it doesn't directly effect how the QB performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PDaDdy Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 no, what he is saying is that spread qb's don't need a big arm as much as they need to be quick decision makers, and good at the intermediate routes, thats why colleges have started running spreads, 5 star recruits are NOT a dime a dozen. Moving the chains is how it works, as long as the qb has an average arm, and makes the right reads it works, its easier to take a guy with decent arm and smart and make him a spread guy than it is to roll the dice on every big arm qb that comes down the pike and hope he works out. I guess a spread, is not a spread, is not a spread. To me that short underneath quick passing game sounds like the West Coast offense. Doesn't it to you? Again, I'm not an expert so can you explain the difference between the quick decision, intermediate route, move the chains spread offense and the quick decision, intermediate route move the chains West Coast offense? And I in NO WAY WHAT SO EVER advocate rolling the dice on every big arm QB that comes down the pike. I do however advocate not rolling the dice on every "he was good in college" noodle arm QB that comes down the pike in hopes that he can be the 1 - 20 to overcome his short comings in the arm department. HUGE difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muffmonster Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 Excuse you say, Its funny how some folks will admit to O-line problems yet refuse to think it doesn't directly effect how the QB performs. It certainly affects QB play, never said it didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioniere Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 ppl are saying Gailey will run a spread offense...what exactly is a spread offense and what does it entail?..do we have enough WR's to do this?..what do you think Buffalo needs to get to run this offense?...hehe, sorry..just wanted to pick your brains on this as I'm trying to do my mock draft and wondering if we have the necessary components for this offense they want to use...so far I see our WR's being Evans, Johnson, Hardy, Parrish and Reed...not sure if Parrish fits or will be kept...T.O will be gone most likely and Hardy is still a ?...I like Reed, but does he fit and/or stay?...From my understanding the spread is a 5 WR with no RB and the QB in shotgun...although I see more of a 4 WR with RB and QB in shotgun...but does this mean 4 actual WR's or just 4 receivers consisting of WR, TE and RB's?..if so, then it really doesn't sound all that different then just an offense..ok I sound stupid here, but I'd really like to know..thanx Check out this site: http://www.thespreadoffense.com/ Google, obviously, also has lots on the spread. A spread can be running or passing oriented. The idea is to spread out the defense and open more running/passing lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach55 Posted February 5, 2010 Share Posted February 5, 2010 A-11 legal? Not in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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