NY Nole Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 So, I was reading JW's article about the Bills interviewing Frazier and this line stuck out to me: "Frazier is in his 22nd NFL season as coach and third with the Vikings. He has been credited with overseeing a stout unit that has ranked sixth in the league in yards allowed the past two seasons." Insert any other "hot coaching prospect's" name and I come away with the same conclusion -- players make the coach not the other way around. Can anyone point to a specific coach and tell me he is responsible for their success? - Frazier had the Williams' DT combo along with Jared Allen creating havoc -- and a ball control Peterson running attack -- I don't think he should be credited for being some kind of genius (what happened during the other 19 years) - Childress - speaking of the Vikings, Brett Favre made Childress look like a genius and they gave him a big extension -- next year post Brett they will go back to sucking and Childress won't be a genius anymore. - Belicheat - Brady & stout defenses were responsible for those championships. No Brady last year & No defense this year = back to reality We can go on and on -- but the bottom line is Cowher is no different from any of these guys -- the players are the most important thing. Until we get the right players (possibly on the right track with Buddy) the coach isn't going to make a damn bit of difference IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 So, I was reading JW's article about the Bills interviewing Frazier and this line stuck out to me: "Frazier is in his 22nd NFL season as coach and third with the Vikings. He has been credited with overseeing a stout unit that has ranked sixth in the league in yards allowed the past two seasons." Insert any other "hot coaching prospect's" name and I come away with the same conclusion -- players make the coach not the other way around. Can anyone point to a specific coach and tell me he is responsible for their success? - Frazier had the Williams' DT combo along with Jared Allen creating havoc -- and a ball control Peterson running attack -- I don't think he should be credited for being some kind of genius (what happened during the other 19 years) - Childress - speaking of the Vikings, Brett Favre made Childress look like a genius and they gave him a big extension -- next year post Brett they will go back to sucking and Childress won't be a genius anymore. - Belicheat - Brady & stout defenses were responsible for those championships. No Brady last year & No defense this year = back to reality We can go on and on -- but the bottom line is Cowher is no different from any of these guys -- the players are the most important thing. Until we get the right players (possibly on the right track with Buddy) the coach isn't going to make a damn bit of difference IMO. I can't agree completely. Good coaching makes fair players good and good players great. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 And good coaches pick their players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
earthtobrint Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Coaches also have a large say in which players are selected for the team in the draft and free agency. You can't discount coaches due to good players and vice versa. You need both good coaches and good players to succeed. /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrudginglyPessimistic Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 The bottom line on a basically false coaches vs. players debate is that tons of things are necessary but nothing is sufficient in and of itself all the time (or even most of the time) in the NFL. If you are looking to win the SB (or even just simply make the playoffs consistently) you need both good players and good coaches. The key is not which is more important as both things must be in place in order for this team to win. In the specific case of the Bills it seems to me that we do have a solid core of players to build around for the most part, but this team is comes up badly short at a few key skill positions. However, a quality HC with a proven track record of winning may well make a big difference for this team if he is able to squeeze better performance out of a few players AND is able to attract a couple of top quality FAs to come here to be a part of a winner. There are actually a number of things which I think point one toward emphasizing getting great players (Dallas with a proven plethora of star players won not because of but regardless of Barry Switzer coaching- but this is such a rarity that the case has no relevance to the Bills. On the other hand Indy had Peyton Manning and a bunch of stars but it really seems to me Tony Dungy was the essential element in putting them over the top (but again in this case we do not have enough star players to allow the HC to be the key to getting us there. Where do the Bills start? The draft is in April and FA does not begin for a while. We must start with getting a notable HC who can build a TEAM and attract players here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 So, I was reading JW's article about the Bills interviewing Frazier and this line stuck out to me: "Frazier is in his 22nd NFL season as coach and third with the Vikings. He has been credited with overseeing a stout unit that has ranked sixth in the league in yards allowed the past two seasons." Insert any other "hot coaching prospect's" name and I come away with the same conclusion -- players make the coach not the other way around. Can anyone point to a specific coach and tell me he is responsible for their success? - Frazier had the Williams' DT combo along with Jared Allen creating havoc -- and a ball control Peterson running attack -- I don't think he should be credited for being some kind of genius (what happened during the other 19 years) - Childress - speaking of the Vikings, Brett Favre made Childress look like a genius and they gave him a big extension -- next year post Brett they will go back to sucking and Childress won't be a genius anymore. - Belicheat - Brady & stout defenses were responsible for those championships. No Brady last year & No defense this year = back to reality We can go on and on -- but the bottom line is Cowher is no different from any of these guys -- the players are the most important thing. Until we get the right players (possibly on the right track with Buddy) the coach isn't going to make a damn bit of difference IMO. thanks for reading. had to correct something though, should be 11th NFL season, 22nd as a coach. my mistake. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kota Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It takes Good Players and a coach who can mold them into a cohesive unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delete This Account Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 it also takes a front-office with a vision to provide the direction, stability and identity to work with the coach. that's what benefited Cowher and many of the league's other successful teams. jw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NY Nole Posted January 6, 2010 Author Share Posted January 6, 2010 it also takes a front-office with a vision to provide the direction, stability and identity to work with the coach.that's what benefited Cowher and many of the league's other successful teams. jw Good point John -- which is why I am not going to throw myself off a bridge if Cowher doesn't sign with the Bills. I think many fans are viewing Cowher as some sort of savior who will solve all our problems. Unless the chin can also play QB -- I don't think he would make a significant difference in Buffalo. A QB, not the head coach, is the game changer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Bill Belichek would make any team better. Bet the farm on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Bill Belichek would make any team better. Bet the farm on that. lolz...tell that to Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ever Since '86 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It goes both ways, if you think one outweighs the other then gimmie some of that sweet bud your smokin on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It goes both ways, if you think one outweighs the other then gimmie some of that sweet bud your smokin on. Dude-- Belichick was on his way out the door until Drew-baby got his lung removed. Brady saved Belichick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 So, I was reading JW's article about the Bills interviewing Frazier and this line stuck out to me: "Frazier is in his 22nd NFL season as coach and third with the Vikings. He has been credited with overseeing a stout unit that has ranked sixth in the league in yards allowed the past two seasons." Insert any other "hot coaching prospect's" name and I come away with the same conclusion -- players make the coach not the other way around. Can anyone point to a specific coach and tell me he is responsible for their success? - Frazier had the Williams' DT combo along with Jared Allen creating havoc -- and a ball control Peterson running attack -- I don't think he should be credited for being some kind of genius (what happened during the other 19 years) - Childress - speaking of the Vikings, Brett Favre made Childress look like a genius and they gave him a big extension -- next year post Brett they will go back to sucking and Childress won't be a genius anymore. - Belicheat - Brady & stout defenses were responsible for those championships. No Brady last year & No defense this year = back to reality We can go on and on -- but the bottom line is Cowher is no different from any of these guys -- the players are the most important thing. Until we get the right players (possibly on the right track with Buddy) the coach isn't going to make a damn bit of difference IMO. Did you want to keep Jauron, then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobcat Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Dude-- Belichick was on his way out the door until Drew-baby got his lung removed. Brady saved Belichick. I have to disagree ,look at the Dolphins ...they were last in the league one year and a new coaching staff and system and they win the division the next year.Look what happened this year when Ronnie Brown went down.They couldnt run that system and they showed there true colours and sucked since his injury.That team has a system and that didnt come until they changed coaches....the same can be said for New Orleans,of course getting Brees helped them alot,but they sucked until Payton showed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 It takes Good Players and a coach who can mold them into a cohesive unit. I am allergic to mold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I can't agree completely. Good coaching makes fair players good and good players great. PTR Absolutely. It happens all the time where one coach fails miserably and another coach comes in with virtually the same players and succeeds. See Miami, Cam Cameron(1-15) and Tony Sparano(11-5, AFC East Champs)...that is all the proof you need. Miami did nothing in the offseason to improve by 10 wins. At most, they could have hoped to improve by 4 wins if all you are looking at is the offseason moves they made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastly Dareus Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 it also takes a front-office with a vision to provide the direction, stability and identity to work with the coach.that's what benefited Cowher and many of the league's other successful teams. jw QFT..... couldn't say it better myself lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Adams Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Dude-- Belichick was on his way out the door until Drew-baby got his lung removed. Brady saved Belichick. On his way out the door in the season he went 11-5 with Drew at the helm most of the way. Yeah. Not likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmur66 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 It takes a special team of coaches to successfully mix the ingredients and light the fuse. What happens after that is largely out of contol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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