Nevergiveup Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 No matter how bad we think our scouts are, you would think they would hit more often. It doesn't seem like the players we draft ever get any better and very few come out of no where and develop like on other teams. Have players like Schobel, Evans, Reed, Poz, Kelsay, Lynch, et al become any better? They look alot like the same players we drafted. In some cases they have regressed. Maybe it is the coaching turnover, but it could point to our lack of really good position coaches. We could not get anything out of Roscoe on offense. We go through QB after QB. Free agents even come here to die. It seems statistically impossible. Could it be the rare combination of poor scouting and coaching. Maybe. But every other team has players you can point to that have really developed. Is it that they draft better or do their players improve because of the coaching? I am all for the right GM if available, but maybe a big time coach that could put together a top notch staff would be the better bet. No way we get both the GM and the coach. I am leaning toward the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pozitive51 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Answer - its all coaching and inconsistency. If you hire a top notch GM you eliminate the need to get a "big time" coach. We have got to develop a culture of winning again, a system a plan... It starts with a GM. We need a strong experienced GM that can stand up to Wilson and force him to commit the money needed to win. There are plenty of lesser known coaches that could come in and turn this thing around... of course with the right support. If you get a chance watch Stanfords Bowl game against Oaklahoma... Harbaugh is the real deal! I would love to see him come in to coach the Bills under a experienced GM. Reese & Harbaugh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 i would go so far as to say that some get WORSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBaumer Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I think this is a GREAT point. The players that Buffalo draft either come out as studs or duds (more of the latter). You RARELY hear of xyz player developing into a Pro Bowler. This is a major problem that has existed for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsfaninFl Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I think this is a GREAT point. The players that Buffalo draft either come out as studs or duds (more of the latter). You RARELY hear of xyz player developing into a Pro Bowler. This is a major problem that has existed for quite some time. With a few exceptions, it's either... 1. The player drafted was a poor decision because he does not have the potential to become better. or 2. The player does not develop further because of inadequate coaching. IMO, it's often 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloWings Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Answer - its all coaching and inconsistency. If you hire a top notch GM you eliminate the need to get a "big time" coach. We have got to develop a culture of winning again, a system a plan... It starts with a GM. We need a strong experienced GM that can stand up to Wilson and force him to commit the money needed to win. There are plenty of lesser known coaches that could come in and turn this thing around... of course with the right support. I think this hits the nail on the head, except that Ralph needs to realize who could be the "top notch" GMs - if he gets the right guy, then everything else falls into place. His decision to hire Tom Donahoe didn't seem like a bad one at the time - a personnel guy who had been around the block and had his connections. He just made horrible decisions while trying to make a big splash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergiveup Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 Answer - its all coaching and inconsistency. If you hire a top notch GM you eliminate the need to get a "big time" coach. We have got to develop a culture of winning again, a system a plan... It starts with a GM. We need a strong experienced GM that can stand up to Wilson and force him to commit the money needed to win. There are plenty of lesser known coaches that could come in and turn this thing around... of course with the right support. If you get a chance watch Stanfords Bowl game against Oaklahoma... Harbaugh is the real deal! I would love to see him come in to coach the Bills under a experienced GM. Reese & Harbaugh! I would be all for a combo like Reese and Harbaugh. If we get the poerhouse GM, we probably end up with a first time coach. Unless we find some kind of connection like there appears to be with Bruce Allen and Shanahan in Wash. I just can't imagine Ralph spending big money on both. Hope I am wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 2 words: TOM MODRAK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalobillsDDS Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 No matter how bad we think our scouts are, you would think they would hit more often. It doesn't seem like the players we draft ever get any better and very few come out of no where and develop like on other teams. Have players like Schobel, Evans, Reed, Poz, Kelsay, Lynch, et al become any better? They look alot like the same players we drafted. In some cases they have regressed. Maybe it is the coaching turnover, but it could point to our lack of really good position coaches. We could not get anything out of Roscoe on offense. We go through QB after QB. Free agents even come here to die. It seems statistically impossible. Could it be the rare combination of poor scouting and coaching. Maybe. But every other team has players you can point to that have really developed. Is it that they draft better or do their players improve because of the coaching? I am all for the right GM if available, but maybe a big time coach that could put together a top notch staff would be the better bet. No way we get both the GM and the coach. I am leaning toward the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VADC Bills Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I would take Evans and Reed off of this list because the lack of a qb. Lets face it TO was an excellent receiver until he came here, this is due to poor quarterbacking. For the others they have had to grow up on their own. Most players learn from coaching and other veteran players. I have been a critic of Poz and Whitner because it seems as though their learning curve takes longer than normal. In their defense they have had no decent on field veteran examples to learn from. I think if Poz played behind or beside Fletcher for a year he would be a much better player. If Whitner could have played a year with Milloy or Vincent he would be much better. But they didn't and they have had to figure it out for themselves with the help of lackluster coaching. This management has taken veteran leadership for granted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mead107 Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 I would say that a lot of it has to do with the fact that we have what, 17 players on IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Culture of losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 No matter how bad we think our scouts are, you would think they would hit more often. It doesn't seem like the players we draft ever get any better and very few come out of no where and develop like on other teams. Have players like Schobel, Evans, Reed, Poz, Kelsay, Lynch, et al become any better? They look alot like the same players we drafted. In some cases they have regressed. Maybe it is the coaching turnover, but it could point to our lack of really good position coaches. We could not get anything out of Roscoe on offense. We go through QB after QB. Free agents even come here to die. It seems statistically impossible. Could it be the rare combination of poor scouting and coaching. Maybe. But every other team has players you can point to that have really developed. Is it that they draft better or do their players improve because of the coaching? I am all for the right GM if available, but maybe a big time coach that could put together a top notch staff would be the better bet. No way we get both the GM and the coach. I am leaning toward the coach. 1. we historically draft to fill self-created holes - so we are limited to what is available at that position and don't select top talent 2. the mid rounds are wasted are filling the team with special teams players who have no shot to be starters 3. Most of the time, the Bills pick players who they play in different positions from which they played in college - thus increasing the likelihood of blowing the evaluation. 4. The coaches can't recognize talent and misuse what they do have (See Fred Jackson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergiveup Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 1. we historically draft to fill self-created holes - so we are limited to what is available at that position and don't select top talent 2. the mid rounds are wasted are filling the team with special teams players who have no shot to be starters 3. Most of the time, the Bills pick players who they play in different positions from which they played in college - thus increasing the likelihood of blowing the evaluation. 4. The coaches can't recognize talent and misuse what they do have (See Fred Jackson) That pretty much covers it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsidethebox Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 The only player I can think of who is becoming a better player is Fred Jackson. Can you imagine him behind a good line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jahnyc Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 The one area that is somewhat of an exception has been the secondary. The Bills have developed talent at the CB and safety positions. Greer is an excellent example (even if he is no longer with the team). Byrd has produced as a rookie and Wilson has made a successful conversion to safety, which is highly unusual. Florence and Scott have played well as free agent acquisitions. McKelvin is a big question mark, and Whitner and Youboty have been disappointing. Overall, talent has been developed in the secondary. George Catavolos must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevergiveup Posted December 28, 2009 Author Share Posted December 28, 2009 The one area that is somewhat of an exception has been the secondary. The Bills have developed talent at the CB and safety positions. Greer is an excellent example (even if he is no longer with the team). Byrd has produced as a rookie and Wilson has made a successful conversion to safety, which is highly unusual. Florence and Scott have played well as free agent acquisitions. McKelvin is a big question mark, and Whitner and Youboty have been disappointing. Overall, talent has been developed in the secondary. George Catavolos must be doing something right. I think that may be the best coached area, but it is not saying much. If I remember correctly it took a series of injuries to other players for Greer to even get on the field. Another expamle of the coaching staff not recognizing talent. They found out just in time to lose him via free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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