ajzepp Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 If anyone hasn't seen the film "Wrestling With Shadows", here's a link I just found off Bret Hart's official site where you can see it for free. It's pretty interesting. http://www.nfb.ca/film/hitman_hart_wrestling_with_shadows/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 18, 2009 Author Share Posted December 18, 2009 If anyone hasn't seen the film "Wrestling With Shadows", here's a link I just found off Bret Hart's official site where you can see it for free. It's pretty interesting. http://www.nfb.ca/film/hitman_hart_wrestling_with_shadows/ Bret Hart is one class act always great to his fans and without a doubt one of the best wrestlers ever. Its really unfortunate what McMahon and that dirt bag Shawn Michaels did to Bret its one reason I really hate the WWF/E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Bret Hart is one class act always great to his fans and without a doubt one of the best wrestlers ever. Its really unfortunate what McMahon and that dirt bag Shawn Michaels did to Bret its one reason I really hate the WWF/E. I recently saw the Shawn Michaels DVD, and I don't know what I think about the "screwjob", to be honest. Michaels admits on the DVD that he knew about the plan to screw over Bret and says that McMahon ordered him to deny any involvement no matter what. HHH was told the same thing. Bret was going to WCW, and when a champ leaves it's customary to drop the belt before doing so....and Vince wanted it dropped to Michaels in Canada. I pretty much blamed Bret for his refusal, but he does make some pretty good points in the "Shadows" film to defend his side of things. I just don't blame Vince entirely, because he told Bret what he wanted done, and Bret wouldn't play along. Vince has to do what's best for the WWE, and he couldn't take any chances that WCW Nitro would have Bret on tv with the WWE belt. I think the entire ordeal could have been resolved much more professionally, so I sort of see the whole thing as a draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Bret Hart is one class act always great to his fans and without a doubt one of the best wrestlers ever. Its really unfortunate what McMahon and that dirt bag Shawn Michaels did to Bret its one reason I really hate the WWF/E. And now that Hart has signed a short term deal to return to the company early in 2010? If he can get over it (if it wasn't completely staged), the whole thing should just go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angrygnome Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 This thread brings back some great memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 And dont forget about the woman....... SABLE....OMFG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jack Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 And dont forget about the woman....... SABLE....OMFG Marc Mero (born in Buffalo) was back in the Syracuse area this past week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed and Amuzed Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Steve Blackman used to be a regular at the Ale House I used to manage. Super super nice guy, his arms are bigger then my head. Side note: Shaking hands w him is like holding a dead fish. I think he was scared to hurt people. He's a teddy bear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 I recently saw the Shawn Michaels DVD, and I don't know what I think about the "screwjob", to be honest. Michaels admits on the DVD that he knew about the plan to screw over Bret and says that McMahon ordered him to deny any involvement no matter what. HHH was told the same thing. Bret was going to WCW, and when a champ leaves it's customary to drop the belt before doing so....and Vince wanted it dropped to Michaels in Canada. I pretty much blamed Bret for his refusal, but he does make some pretty good points in the "Shadows" film to defend his side of things. I just don't blame Vince entirely, because he told Bret what he wanted done, and Bret wouldn't play along. Vince has to do what's best for the WWE, and he couldn't take any chances that WCW Nitro would have Bret on tv with the WWE belt. I think the entire ordeal could have been resolved much more professionally, so I sort of see the whole thing as a draw. Hart would have dropped the belt to someone else in the few weeks after that Survivor Series since he was still under contract with the WWF for the next few weeks. Hart had a deep personal hate for Michaels and didn't want to loose the belt to him in Canada. Hart also had reasonable creative control in how his tenure with WWF would end. McMahon was worried about Hart showing up on Monday Night Nitro wearing the WWF title and dropping it in a garbage can. BUT Hart couldn't have legally done that as Hart was still under contract with the WWF for a few more weeks. Had Hart actually done that the WWF could have called police to the event to stop it AND sue Hart and WCW for millions. Bottom line McMahon didn't have to do that to Bret Hart and it shows who Michaels was when he lied right to Hart's wifes face and to the rest of Harts family. It also shows who McMahon was when he lied right to Harts face about the match. Its sad that Michaels gets to continue wrestle while Hart has been retired for 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOBILLS78 Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Start thread>Koko. B Ware.<End thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hart would have dropped the belt to someone else in the few weeks after that Survivor Series since he was still under contract with the WWF for the next few weeks. Hart had a deep personal hate for Michaels and didn't want to loose the belt to him in Canada. Hart also had reasonable creative control in how his tenure with WWF would end. McMahon was worried about Hart showing up on Monday Night Nitro wearing the WWF title and dropping it in a garbage can. BUT Hart couldn't have legally done that as Hart was still under contract with the WWF for a few more weeks. Had Hart actually done that the WWF could have called police to the event to stop it AND sue Hart and WCW for millions. Bottom line McMahon didn't have to do that to Bret Hart and it shows who Michaels was when he lied right to Hart's wifes face and to the rest of Harts family. It also shows who McMahon was when he lied right to Harts face about the match. Its sad that Michaels gets to continue wrestle while Hart has been retired for 10 years. sure does show who michaels was...... a company guy willing to do anything to protect where he works. shows who mcmahon was too...... a company owner looking to protect the business he built. when all this went down, wwf was on the verge of bankruptcy and bret hart knew that when vinny mac asked him to defer some of the contract he signed just months ealier. and for a guy that never drew in fans the way hogan, austin, the rock, and others did, he should have done whatever reasonable things mcmahon asked him to. which includes dropping the strap. creative control for a character does not include creative control for an entire company Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 sure does show who michaels was...... a company guy willing to do anything to protect where he works.shows who mcmahon was too...... a company owner looking to protect the business he built. when all this went down, wwf was on the verge of bankruptcy and bret hart knew that when vinny mac asked him to defer some of the contract he signed just months ealier. and for a guy that never drew in fans the way hogan, austin, the rock, and others did, he should have done whatever reasonable things mcmahon asked him to. which includes dropping the strap. creative control for a character does not include creative control for an entire company Hart help push Austin with the USA vs Canada angle. Hart was never the draw of Hogan, The Rock, or Austin was but he was a big draw at a time when McMahon didn't have many big names. So having creative control of how your character leaves doesn't mean you can't say I don't want to loose to that guy so I will loose to someone else isn't a reasonable request. McMahon didn't want Hart there at all because McMahon couldn't afford him and WCW was willing to give him 9 million over 3 years. McMahon told Hart to negotiate with WCW and so Hart seeing the writing on the wall did so. Hart has said that he did want to drop the belt just not to Michaels and according to Hart he was willing to drop it to Stone Cold Steve Austin or Ken Shamrock or someone else not named Shawn Michaels. McMahon as explained in my post didn't really protect his company at all because Hart would have still had 3-4 weeks left on his contract with WWF and could have never appeared on WCW television wearing the belt ever. In fact Hart didn't appear on WCW television until a month later. And as far as Michaels doing what it took to protect the company is BS because he won the title he did it not because of the greater good but because he knew that he would look good and win the title and he would gain favor with McMahon by being his go to guy. Business is business but it says something about your character in the way you conduct your business. Especially towards a guy that has shown nothing but loyalty and given you nothing but hard work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hart would have dropped the belt to someone else in the few weeks after that Survivor Series since he was still under contract with the WWF for the next few weeks. Hart had a deep personal hate for Michaels and didn't want to loose the belt to him in Canada. Hart also had reasonable creative control in how his tenure with WWF would end. McMahon was worried about Hart showing up on Monday Night Nitro wearing the WWF title and dropping it in a garbage can. BUT Hart couldn't have legally done that as Hart was still under contract with the WWF for a few more weeks. Had Hart actually done that the WWF could have called police to the event to stop it AND sue Hart and WCW for millions. Bottom line McMahon didn't have to do that to Bret Hart and it shows who Michaels was when he lied right to Hart's wifes face and to the rest of Harts family. It also shows who McMahon was when he lied right to Harts face about the match. Its sad that Michaels gets to continue wrestle while Hart has been retired for 10 years. That's not exactly true. Bret said in the Wrestling with Shadows film that the contract was based on a certain number of appearances per year, and he had already exceeded that number, thus fulfilling the contract. He did say he had some creative control clause(s) in the contract, but Vince is the boss....what he says should be the final word, IMO. Also, as far as lying to Bret's wife, McMahon ordered him to deny everything. Who is he going to be loyal to in that situation? The guy who pays his salary or someone who is about to leave the company and go to the biggest competitor? Shawn (and HHH) did what Vince told him to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajzepp Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 sure does show who michaels was...... a company guy willing to do anything to protect where he works.shows who mcmahon was too...... a company owner looking to protect the business he built. when all this went down, wwf was on the verge of bankruptcy and bret hart knew that when vinny mac asked him to defer some of the contract he signed just months ealier. and for a guy that never drew in fans the way hogan, austin, the rock, and others did, he should have done whatever reasonable things mcmahon asked him to. which includes dropping the strap. creative control for a character does not include creative control for an entire company That's how I see it too, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loyal2dagame Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 Hart help push Austin with the USA vs Canada angle. Hart was never the draw of Hogan, The Rock, or Austin was but he was a big draw at a time when McMahon didn't have many big names. as far as no big names, while hart was champ(multiple times), all of the following were at one time or another in wwf hbk undertaker scott hall kevin nash hulk hogan lex lugar mr perfect ric flair steve austin the rock mick foley/cactus jack/mankind/dude love and those are just off the top of my head......... so to say wwf didnt have any big names at any point in time is insane while i do think things could have turned out better for wwf and bret hart, everything that happened with the screw job is what helped wwf to put wcw out of business. so i guess vince and hbk were the smarter or luckier of the bunch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 That's not exactly true. Bret said in the Wrestling with Shadows film that the contract was based on a certain number of appearances per year, and he had already exceeded that number, thus fulfilling the contract. He did say he had some creative control clause(s) in the contract, but Vince is the boss....what he says should be the final word, IMO. Also, as far as lying to Bret's wife, McMahon ordered him to deny everything. Who is he going to be loyal to in that situation? The guy who pays his salary or someone who is about to leave the company and go to the biggest competitor? Shawn (and HHH) did what Vince told him to do. True while the contract was based on appearances per year and Hart fulfilled that amount. BUT Hart had been working extra dates and appearances for free at one point. I am sure if McMahon wanted he could have worked out a legal agreement with Hart to drop the title to Austin or the Under Taker a day later. As I said Hart fulfilling the dates required on the contract and then some didn't mean that the contract was void or he was completely a free agent. Hart didn't appear on WCW television for almost a month after (December 15th 1997 was his first appearance) if his contract was void and a free agent why couldn't he have appeared the next night on Nitro? McMahon did whatever he felt like and didn't care who got hurt in the process. McMahon didn't want to work out an agreement with Hart even though Hart was more then willing and had the contractual right to do so. McMahon did the wrong thing, did it work out for him in the end yes. BUT it shows a lot about your character when you couldn't have made the most basic accommodations to a very loyal employee who took less money to sign with your company simply out of loyalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 as far as no big names, while hart was champ(multiple times), all of the following were at one time or another in wwf hbk undertaker scott hall kevin nash hulk hogan lex lugar mr perfect ric flair steve austin the rock mick foley/cactus jack/mankind/dude love and those are just off the top of my head......... so to say wwf didnt have any big names at any point in time is insane while i do think things could have turned out better for wwf and bret hart, everything that happened with the screw job is what helped wwf to put wcw out of business. so i guess vince and hbk were the smarter or luckier of the bunch Hogan had left by the time Hart was the focus of the company. Hart wasn't the only draw but he was McMahon's biggest draw in the mid 1990's (At a time when Austin and the Rock weren't really big names yet) when guys like Savage, Hogan, Lex Luger, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and Roddy Piper were all in WCW Hart was there in WWF. Hart who was a big draw internationally helped to keep the WWF much more popular in Europe, Canada, Australia, and other markets then WCW. Hart also was a solid draw in the USA and did put Stone Cold Steve Austin on the map in 1996/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I must be seeing things. Say again? Sorry...my bad...I thought for sure you would have caught the reference to the weasel himself... Bobby 'The Brain' Heenan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I still think it's funny that Hart himself can get over the whole incident but fans still can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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