Whites Bay

Bingo. You nailed it. Put us at a 9-7 (or even 8-8) finish this year, and slip one of your December games into October next year, and none of us are having this conversation. Guaran-damn-tee it.

I figured there had to be some sarcasm in the original post. Always better to use it as a scalpel, and not a chainsaw. Couple of points, for what they're worth. Someone had stated on an earlier thread that Golisano is making some decent money now with the Sabres. Well, let's hope so, because if he's making bucks with the NHL, he's going to be awash in it with an NFL franchise. Let's hope he gets the bug. A downtown stadium in Buffalo? As a Rochester-born native...NO! The Bills have worked their collective tush off to expand the fan base beyond Buffalo, so take advantage of it and build the stadium to the East. Believe me, people outside Buffalo don't want to pound their way into downtown - and back out again. Finally, it likely wouldn't be Los Angeles, for the above stated reasons. Just an awful fan base that would itself have a hard time selling out a 70,000 seat stadium. But San Antonio? Toronto? Not too far-fetched. Go, Golisano, Go!

I can't tell how much seriousness is in your thread, so I'll refrain from the monosyllabic responses that first come to mind. If I were you, I'd be looking at the "move" from the other direction. I'll agree that, despite the pious bleatings, the NFL couldn't give a rat's hairy patoot if the small market that is Buffalo loses the Bills. The NFL's problem is not that Buffalo gets crushed. The NFL's problem is that there is ZERO fan support for their product in Los Angeles, and it's been shown by fans and political power-brokers (where is that new stadium, anyway?) for two decades. I'm speaking from experience. I'm one of the few posters on this board that has HAD season tickets to a Los Angeles-area football team. As a Rams season ticket holder from '87 (yeah, the strike year) through '90, I was continually amazed at: 1) The tepid, passive nature of the "crowds", and the way they would stare incredulously at anyone who dared cheer the team on. God forbid you screamed "DEFENSE!!!"....you might spill someone's Chardonnay. 2) The way people BAILED by half time. I've never seen anything like it! There was an innate fear of being caught in traffic at game's end. The team could be up by 10-14 points, the game could be wild.....and ZOOM! The crowd sucked out of that stadium like a turd in a bowl. 3) Not that there was all that great a threat to jam up the freeways. The Rams rarely packed in 60,000 people, and that was when they were competitive in '89. So....go ahead and fire off your stinging little posts about the Bills leaving for more profitable climes. It might happen, unless Ralph and a locally-based consortium can get something arranged quickly (because Ralph ain't gonna be around more than about 36 months - deal with it, he's 88 or so). But the Bills going to Los Angeles? Buddy, any team that heads to Los Angeles will be cold oatmeal within 5 years, because the fans simply couldn't care less. They're just the worst in the country, and I've lived it. Too much else going on, too much apathy, too superficial, no passion.

Can someone give me the inside skinny as to why Pennington is starting at ORT, instead of Butler? I'm not complaining about his performance (well, that first game was a little surreal, but expected), but Butler was a true ORT drafted in the fifth round. Pennington was a swing - I think - but in any case drafted in the seventh round. Marv obviously thought more of Butler back in April.....Anyone know the reasoning? Pennington's size? Arm length? Did Butler have an injury that slowed his development? Why all the questions? Because the above post to which I'm replying brings back a lot of memories, and makes a lot of sense. It simply drives me up a wall that we're not running to the right side! Can you say "Predictable"? Gee, here comes Willis to the left again - let's slide the spy over that-a-way, whuddya think? Who knows? Maybe they're just trying to give the kid some reps this year in preps for 07 (?). I'd love some insight into this from someone who's been watching the game more closely than I have. Why Pennington and not Butler?

Limbaugh. Oh, that didn't last very long, did it?

I guess upon rereading this the thought of a "frozen ball" doesn't represent what I meant. What I'm thinking of is how fast you'll get a layer of frozen water on leather. It happens in seconds, and it makes the ball real slippery. I know, I know. Stop overthinking it, dumbass. It's football. At the end of it all, I think the conditions will equalize more in our favor than against us...but I don't know if it's going to be enough to overcome a very talented Chargers team. So why do I actually feel optimistic? Too much Kool-Aid in the water supply?

Can't help ya there, homester! I wanted Ngata.

With all the money that's gone into this place, I wouldn't be a bit surprised. Sorry, had to open another one. No, that can't be right. Huge energy expenditure being funded by taxpayers for perhaps five Sundays. The more I think about this thread, the more cynical I become! I guess it's possible, but WOW that's a lot of kW. You could perhaps get away with it using passive solar, but that would have meant a tremendous amount of foresight in 1998 when the stadium was redone. People weren't thinking alternative energy when oil was $40 per bbl. Anyone have more details? In any case, a heated field won't affect the ball. That's going to freeze up real hard real fast once it's thrown. It'll be interesting to see how many balls are dropped.

Only if the Chargers game plan is to run up the middle. To be fair, I haven't had a lot of film time with San Diego, so maybe this is their modus operandi, and we'll get kee-illd. But I believe the field conditions will make for a bey-atch-and-a-half for either team to run wide, run sweeps, run reverses. Too damn slippery, and slippery will lead to caution, and to fumbles.

The Roscoe comment was pretty good! Wonder if he's lived that one down yet? Qualifier on "air it out" - I can see the short and intermediate stuff (it gags me to reference Marcia, but he doesn't seem to slow down through the air in a similar environment), but the long balls move around a lot upon landing. Now that I think of it, the two big Evans bombs in Houston were really high, you know? Especially that first one. Homey don't wanna try THAT crap on Sunday. It'll end up in the press box if we're lucky.

My concern is ice. Ice on the field, frozen moisture on the ball. You're probably right that JP has the arm strength to whip it good in the wind - although I don't care WHO'S throwing the ball, it's going to weave around at the end of a 40-yard toss. Short- and intermediate-range throws will be the ticket of the day. Who knows? Maybe our receivers are more accustomed to expect non-linear flight paths(?). This front came through like a ton-o-bricks, and the field is already soaked. There will be precipitation coming for the next 48 hours, and the night time temperatures are going to be well below freezing. so the field's going to be slick. I don't see either team succeeding with the long ball on Sunday. But you know something? Even if I take my beer goggles off, I think the crappy conditions will HELP be an equalizer. I still don't think that WE'RE totally accustomed to this crap, because it's been a mild autumn. But someone brought it up a couple of days ago, and they're right - if we're adversely affected by this environment, it's going to be a downright reality warp for the Chargers. I think you're correct in that the game plan will call for more tear-it-up than we saw in the nadir that was Indy, but get ready for the coaching staff to curtail things FAST if JP starts misfiring, or if the receivers start dropping passes or fumbling a lot (this is my big worry). Ice.

I'd have to agree. A million years ago, I had season tickets to the Los Angeles Rams when I lived out in Orange County. In my day, I was known as a "yeller" - I was loud as hell, and would get some incredulous stares in my section way the hell up in nosebleed central above the smog line. In my view, THOSE fans were a waste of skin, and it's no surprise they're in St. Louis today. In that sense, I can agree with MV in that the advantage to the team comes from being LOUD. But standing up all day? My brothers and I have had Bills season tickets during two stints in the past 20 years, and loved the entire experience. We're not locals; it's just not economically feasible for us to head into the stadium the way we used to (for a number of reasons), so it really REALLY ruins things when we've laid out upwards of $1000 for airfares, hotel, meals and rental cars, and we find ourselves having to watch the F-ing Jumbotron because some weaving buffoon won't plant his @$$. Unlike many folks on this board, we're a vertically-challenged group, the tallest of us measuring about 5'9". What are we supposed to do? Contact Balco for steroids or something? Be loud! Be enthusiastic! Be vocal! That's why "The 12th Man" is on the Wall - we've earned it. But remember, the Bills couldn't care less if you're standing up - they aren't looking at you! Sit the "F" down - it's not all about you.

I think it's going to come down to running the ball hard inside the tackles for both teams. Just looked at weather.com for the 800th time today and it's going to be poopie out there. The "Hawk" to which Lori refers probably won't be in full wing, but will be a factor. But the rain comes in Friday night and Saturday, and the cold air hits on Saturday morning. Can anyone say "ice"? The field surface is going to be a challenge, and I'm thinking sweeps and reverses are going to get hammered PDQ if a linebacker or safety stays at home - there's just not going to be any traction for sweet moves. (Watch for a few fumbles, by the way - the ball's gonna get real slick, and the runners are gonna drop fast). Means a lot of pounding up the middle. Golly gee whiz, I just wish we'd try a few runs to the right side for a change. Do you think they're expecting Willis behind Gandy with Fowler pulling again? Maybe we'll get lucky and they won't have watched 4 games worth of tape.........

Sorry about that, but it's this "reality" thing that I haven't been able to escape for all these years. In seriousness, I'm warming to Lori's idea above regarding the wind. This should indeed help our punting game....I'm not so sure it's going to help the FG unit, as THAT'S kicking from a fixed position. Once that ball is snapped, well, that's it. Punters, on the other hand, can move around, angle, change directions. The wind should be a friggin' eye-opener to Rivers. Per an earlier response to this thread, I did live in San Diego for a couple of years, and it's the most benign climate in the U.S. Barely a breath of wind to riffle the smog. This having been said, it should play into our favor, because while JP is not accustomed to playing in snow THIS YEAR (and, like driving, you need to relearn this skill every winter), he IS accustomed to playing in a setting where the wind knocks the ball around silly-like. What's it mean? Run, run, run for both teams. Hope the field doesn't get too slick. THAT'S what you want to watch for. Outside sweeps and sharp cutbacks are going to be.......interesting.

While I'm hopeful the weather will have an impact this weekend (we're going to need all the help we can get against San Diego), I'm not convinced it's going to be the difference maker. Look at it this way - with the exception of the fluke blizzard in October, in how many cold weather games have WE played this season? Moreover, age is getting to me, but perhaps someone can tell me if we even played in Buffalo in the few days following that blizzard. As I recall, the temperature popped right back up, resulting in a boatload of flooding in WNY and the Southern Tier. I can buy the argument that cold weather is USUALLY a great friend of the Bills, but we too have to get some acclimation to our "friend"! It's the end of November, and people here in the Mohawk Valley (usually a few degrees colder than Erie County, but not as windy) are walking around in sweatshirts with no jackets. This Bills team hasn't played in cold weather since last December, and most of the guys on THAT team aren't here anymore. Talk to me about weather by about the Miami/Tennessee time frames. THAT'S a horse of a different color. Still and all, there's simply NOTHING as effective as the combination of: - cold, awful weather - PACKED stadium - warm-weather opponent Who remembers the 1990 AFC title game with Jay Schroeder and the L.A. Limp-Wristed-Nancy-Boys? Now, THAT was a weather advantage.

See my note on another thread (or don't). Look up "gribblenation" on Google, and then click on the hyperlink for NFL broadcasts. Assuming you can believe what you're reading, it's going to be available up in Watertown, and down in Binghamton. Syracuse looks like it's taken a torpedo in the starboard bow, Rochester is already awash to the deckplates. I'm heading north to the Watertown telecast, and taking my chances. I can't find a sports bar here in Utica that can give me a guarantee that they'll be able to pick it up with Sunday Ticket, and if I wait until they CAN give me the guarantee (as in 12:50 P.M.)....I'm toast. I'll roll the dice and head North. Go Bills!

Thanks.....I wish I was misinterpreting the map, but think I'm correct. Prior to flipping over to the map, they have a text area that shows the game has indeed been switched to Pittsburgh/Baltimore. What's confusing me is the information I'm gleaning from the websites of two of the bigger media outlets nearby - the Rochester D&C, and WTVH CBS Syracuse. The D&C clearly states that WTVH will not carry the game, and that we're getting Pit/Bal. The WTVH website says they ARE carrying the game....at least they said this early this morning. Do I believe that this is true, given that it's Saturday morning of a holiday weekend, and the graphics people are all stuffed with turkey and haven't updated the website ? My bet is that the game IS INDEED blacked out in Utica. If that doesn't just burn yer britches, because there ain't no way yer gonna make it to Orchard Park from the Mohawk Valley in less than three hours! Come on, give me a break! So much for the 75 mile "Death Zone". We're three friggin' hours away! And the sports bars around here can't guarantee that they're going to have the game, because they can't trust Sunday Ticket as far as they can spit a rat. So, I'm heading north to the cottage up near Sackets Harbor, and I'm going to sit in that cold little place with my six pack of adult beverages and scream my lungs out at the Bills, and at the NFL in general.

It took me awhile to find this from an old E-mail I'd received, but this should help. Don't know where they're getting this information, but it's a really useful map. http://www.gribblenation.net/index.html I'm out in Utica, and didn't think the blackout would affect me this far away....but it looks like it's shot all the way to Massachusetts. Basically, it's blacked out on both side of the Thruway to the state line. Looks like I'm either heading north to the River or a sports bar. Okay, sports bar wins.

Hello Dr. Trooth, Well done as usual. Urrghhh.........I'm not sold on Pennington. I tossed this one out last night, and will do so again. Our first pick - would we be better off with: 1) Get a true OLT and move Peters back over to the right side? Or 2) Get an animal at DT? Prison record aside...... As for the much larger issue of whether the glass is half full or half empty....oh, come on. It's half full. Get the F over it, will all y'all? (spent a year in the South). There's no friggin' alternative. It's either going to get better, or the team is going to leave.....probably to "The South", where I spent that awful year. The question at this point is what position do we draft first? My call? I want the DT.

Oh, I'm SO glad you flossed. Come over here, will you? I really have to go poopie. Look in the mirror!

Well, neither is losing. I'd rather pay a few bucks to have some "conversation" than to have my heart broken again. Guess there's just less emotional involvement in a strip club.....if you really think about it.

Well said, Dr. Trooth. I have to respect a person who starts a post with "Goodness Gracious". (No, for once I'm not being facetious). It's almost getting on my nerves when I hear the talking network suits describe J.P as a "Third-Year QB". Huh? Yep, he was damn quick dodging sacks that first year...in a cast. I have a running head-banging session with a co-worker from Lockport regarding J.P. While he's as big a Bills fan as anyone (even ME), he's solidly off the bandwagon. Fine. Be off the bandwagon. But put up or SHUT UP. Put the names on the board, boys. And then back it up with more than a couple of Labatts. Quinn in the draft? Or some mystery guest in Free Agency? (Remember, you're competing with places like Tampa Bay, and possibly Jacksonville, as venues. Still think you're going to bring in a superstar for workouts in western New York in February?). Like any fan, I grasped mightily at the rosy vision of Terrence Pennington blowing people off the line. Of Robert Royal streaking down the middle. Of Melvin Fowler grinding people to mincemeat up the gut. It ain't happening. I don't know why it isn't. They're probably good people who take their craft seriously. But it ain't happening. Do I scream at the TV for J.P. to GET RID OF THE DAMN BALL FASTER? Bet yer sweet @$$ I do. But I also know that the receivers have to get open....FAST. It's that awful team thing. So here's my question to those who would have Losman's head on a platter. First off...it's not going to happen, so get over it. Second, we have (in my not-so-humble-opinion) two glaring needs - another OLT (assuming you move Peters back over to ORT, and move Pennington back to bar bouncer), or a friggin' monster DT. I'm game - what do you think? Where do you go? Rebuild the OL, or put a near-convict in the middle? My call is to pick some DT dude who really likes farm animals in the first round, and find a ORT that knows how to run-block in the second round. Pass protection on the right side gets a lot easier when you're running people over. Thoughts?

Really. Like George Siefert was a sociopathic chainsaw-wielding maniac. And Barry Switzer was the ball bearing in the middle of that Cowboys machine in (what year was it?) 1994. Give me a break. It ain't the coach, home dog. It galls me to be thinking about NEXT YEAR in the eighth week, but I'm thinking monster DT so bad it hurts. Don't care if he's stupid, don't care if he's inbred. Just point him at the guy with the football over there with the different color jerseys and hit him like you did that guy that made that nasty comment about your momma.......

Oh, God, I've read this entire thread and have chosen this entry to which to respond. I'll reluctantly wear the "Old Fart" moniker - but, no, I didn't watch Starr. Only on the sidelines in the 70s during a horrible stretch. Thank God for community ownership, because it's the only way they kept the team in that town during those years. What are WE going to do? Weighing in on this thread, one can really begin to see the dichotomy between us "Old Farts" and the....well, "non-Old Farts". Here's my thought, you young fellers. We're the lucky ones, you're the saps. Why? Because we at least REMEMBER the black-and-white Zenith (yes, we had one of those as well), and we REMEMBER life before Michael Irvin's "commentary", and we REMEMBER Monday Night games that actually started at 9:06 P.M. without the GARBAGE GARBAGE GARBAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! All you poor little barstards are going to ever watch is the mahnuah that's fed to you, and the worst part is that you think it's "slick". Where's the "barf" icon for me to click here? It doesn't HAVE to be so processed, so slick, so cheese-food! I'm a reasoning, articulate human being who has (against all odds) learned to walk upright. So what? Here's what, pinheads at ESPN - I can tell you when a screen is being set up. I can tell by watching when the QB is nervous and is going to (attempt to) dump to the fullback. I can tell when the safety's grabbed the facemask. I don't need to have it explained to me with graphics, commentary, sideline updates (nice boobs, though) and screen bugs. And THAT'S why I feel bad for you "non-Old Farts". At least I got to watch a simpler game. I'm going to quote this from memory: I am gross and perverted I'm obsessed and deranged I have existed for years But very little has changed I'm vile and pernicious but you can't look away I make you think I'm delicious With the stuff that I say I'm the tool of the government and industry too For I am destined to rule, and regulate you I'm the best you can get Have you guessed me yet? I'm the slime oozing out from your TV set Okay, sports fans, let's see who remembers that one. And how true the great man was.

This post hits to the core of it all, and I couldn't agree more. What's posted on this board has all the meaning and staying power of a fart in a hurricane. Is Losman the next coming of Unitas? Montana? (Gulp) Brady? Who knows? Looking around the league, would I rather have Losman that all but 10-11 quarterbacks? Personally, I would. And in two years, I'm going to reduce that number to about 5-6. The decision-making is improving, the physical tools are there, and the coaching staff knows it. That's why they're focusing on the NEXT element of successful offensive production, and that's the supporting cast - in the case of the Bills, the O-line. Don't take your collective eyes off THAT ball. Losman's here, he's going to stay, he's going to improve. Next Sunday, I'm going to be watching - and holding my breath while doing it - both of our tackles. I'm not as concerned about Peters' ability to match footwork on the left side, but Pennington? It leaves me scratching my head. Butler's a 5th-rounder, Pennington's a 7th rounder, so they obviously valued Butler more than Pennington on Draft Day. Can someone shed any light on what's changed? And I don't mean "he must be playing better". I know that. What aspect about his play got him into the starting lineup as a 7th-rounder? Size? Strength? Footwork? Is Butler incompetent?