1billsfan

There is a large contingent of fans who are amazingly still supportive of Doug Marrone as long as he lets go of Hackett. It’s crazy, but for these fans, you can not connect Marrone to this offense if you tried. This line of thought is even spread throughout the local Buffalo media. Maybe they see him as a father figure and are afraid to criticize him. Maybe they still believe in him because he sounds like an “old school” guy. He just needs an elite QB and an elite offensive line to start showing improvement. It’s not him, he’s an “old school, meat and potatoes” guy. EJ Manuel on the other hand has got absolutely skewered here this past year. Fans have gone ridiculously overboard in their posts. Everyone knew that EJ Manuel was a project and if they were given his stats two years in they would probably say that sounds about right. The guy was going to take some time. This wasn’t going to be a Luck or Wilson overnight sensation type of a QB. Yet Doug Marrone is the guy who gets a pass. Even AFTER Orton starting the last 11 games for Marrone’s offense. This is an NFL veteran who has thrown 100 TDs passes in his career. Oh no, it’s not Doug Marrone, it’s Nate Hackett. Marrone needed to see two years of putridly bad offense before making a change in his OC. Glaciers move faster than Marrone in the change department. I start getting angry reading posts here, reading columns by Bills beat reporters and listening to some local radio people give protection to and still be supportive of a man who has given us the worst offense I have ever seen as a Bills fan of 40 years. They buy into the feeling that Marrone just needs to get his second hiring of an OC right this time. As if a OC worth ANYTHING would come on Marrone’s staff given what would be severely shaky ground in 2015. Reality doesn't work this way. Professionals who are great at their jobs don’t make stupid divisions like accepting a job offered by a man who will be fired next year if he doesn’t turn around a team that’s missed the playoffs in 15 years. I think that the years of losing and mediocrity have made a LOT of fans here numb to reality. I see no way that Doug Marrone still has his job by Tuesday. It is so plain to see that being an NFL head coach is way way above his head. He looks the part and sounds the part, but he was always too afraid to do what he said he was going to do in his first press conference when he was hired…”We want to be innovative," he said. "We want to be on the cutting edge." Yes, that was Doug Marrone who said that. Does this offense look innovative? Cutting edge? If someone had said they were going to do that and they gave you the safest offense you have ever witnessed would you continue to keep him employed? Thank you for starting this thread, I’ve been trying to open some eyes using real stats. They just want to be in denial about Marrone.

I'll give you some in depth analysis. Did you know... The 2014 Bills plays per drive and yards per drive are equal to that of the 2013 Bills offense? Time of possession this year is only 14 more seconds per drive than last year (a year when they used a lot of no huddle). Yards per catch was more in 2013 than it is this year when Manuel started the majority of games and they did not have Sammy Watkins. The numbers just don't support the Manuel haters false argument that he was a disaster compared to Orton. They are selling a fairly tale, a myth. But alas, that's the world we live in. If you say the same bs over and over again, people will start believing it.

If I were the head coach, I'd let EJ play and tell him to throw the ball to Sammy Watkins at least 15 times whether he is covered or not. This game is meaningless so why not literally put your 2013, 2014 and 2015 1st round cards on the table against the best team in your division and the AFC. Is this something to be afraid of? Why? This is just a game. The Bills used 3 first round picks for this specific QB and this specific WR to supposedly be the spearhead to ending the Patriots reign over their division and conference. I don't get the fear factor of seeing Manuel throwing the ball to Watkins. Let's see what Revis' got, ya know? Worst thing is we lose, at least we tried with the 2 guys who are supposed to be the future of the team.

Bills scoring offense: 2013 (Manuel, Lewis, Tuel, no Sammy Watkins): 24th in average plays per drive 28th in average yards per drive 25th in average points per drive 2014 (Manuel, Orton, with Sammy Watkins): 28th in average plays per drive 29th in average yards per drive 25th in average points per drive These numbers are the real reason why the Buffalo Bills missed the playoffs. Marrone and Hackett have no excuses for these 2014 numbers. Year 2 with a veteran QB with 100 passing TDs and Sammy Watkins should have bumped those numbers up several spots. So who knows how good EJ Manuel could be, because these two offensive coaches stink.

Please list the current NFL head coaches that Doug Marrone is better than. This reminds me of the time when there was still much fan and media support for keeping Dick Jauron on, when it was clear after two years he was a complete loser as a head coach. When you have one of the bottom five head coaches in the league and there are real NFL coaches like Bill Cowher, Rex Ryan, Todd Haley, Frank Reich, Todd Bowles and Mike Shanahan out there who would be huge upgrades and who would be attracted to coming to a team with a top five defense, then you are a clown for keeping him. This new owner didn't get rich by accepting stupidity (see Bills offense). The culture of losing is still here with Marrone no matter what the FO people say. That loss to 2-12 Oakland was Marrone's final straw for keeping his job, he's gone IMO.

I'd like to see you give a list of the NFL head coaches that you think Doug Marrone is smarter than. As for your second question...I already said that since I think Doug Marrone is a stupid coach, that makes me think EJ Manuel is probably a great QB.

Doug's time wasn't truncated like Manuel's was. He wasn't benched. Marrone got his way, he made the big boy decisions, it's his offense and he owns how ridiculously awful it is. This offense looks so much worse than it did last year. Shouldn't an offense be getting better a year later especially when you add in a Sammy Watkins and a real RT to the mix??????? Doug's stupid and that gives me real hope that Manuel is a real franchise QB.

I'd argue with any 22 year old WR that this isn't a Madden video game, that Luck and Wilson are the rare exceptions to the natural occurrence of dealing with growing pains when developing an NFL QB. If they don't like it then they can get cut or traded.

Well this is under the assumption that Doug Marrone knows what he is doing, right? The vast majority of fans think Marrone and Hackett don't know what they are doing on offense. Yet these same fans think that they know what they are doing with regards to who's the better starting QB, Orton or Manuel. This just isn't logical thinking. I actually think that EJ Manuel is going to become a great QB one day for the very reason that Doug Marrone thinks he stinks.

Two of those guys aren't starters and Woods' good play is on the same level as last year. Playing QB under Marrone is like playing with one hand tied behind your back. When opposing defenses know your simple game plan before the ball is even kicked off then your offense is doomed. Aaron Rogers and Tom Brady would look horrible playing under Marrone's offense. Yes our QB is not good enough, but that isn't this team's biggest problem.

Give me one Buffalo Bill on offense who got better under Doug Marrone.

I agree with this. I can list three potential Bills head coaches who would be a huge upgrades over Doug Marrone...Rex Ryan, Todd Haley and Frank Reich. Marrone looks like a guy who's lost and who's in over his head. I'm sure the new owner can see this a mile away because he's smart enough to become worth billions. I'm sure his consultant will only confirm his suspicions. Losing to Oakland may be a real blessing in disguise.

What's also puzzling is that fans think Marrone and Hackett's offense is stupid, yet they think Orton is the guy that should start because Marrone knows best. You can't fix stupid. You can't have a stupid head coach become smart with his most important decision which is who's his starting QB. Marrone doesn't know anything about NFL offenses or the practice of putting his players in the best position to have success and he's riding the coat tails of his top NFL defense. Since Marrone is so stupid, I see no way that he keeps his job and I think that him staying with Orton after his performance nose-dived was probably the wrong one because he just doesn't have a clue in what he's doing. I hope that the Bills will be smart and hire Frank Reich as their next head coach. The guy knows offense, he's been an NFL QB, he's been a member of a team that went to four Superbowls, he learned under Marv Levy, he knows the Bills, he's ready to be our head coach and get EJ Manuel in the proper position to be a successful. Reich did a masterful play calling job in that SD/49er game the other night. I see no way the new owners keep such a clueless man in Marrone as their head coach. He may be a good college head coach, but he is lost as an NFL head coach. Remember when Marv Levy made adjustments during half times? This guy Marrone can't make an adjustment after 15 games of something not working.

Marrone is a poser NFL head coach. He looks and sounds the part a good coach...but when it's time to make a game plan, an adjustment or a big in-game decision he is so afraid of failure that he ends up putting the car in neutral and hoping for the best. This loss was truly a fireable offense and I think he will get fired.

What's not to gain? This is actually the perfect time to play him because the expectations are at their lowest. The team just lost to the Raiders, they are now playing the best team in the NFL and they are playing them on the road. If Manuel fails then it's no big deal, it's totally expected. If he wins the game and looks impressive, then the whole Bills organization gets a big lift going into the offseason. The risk/reward factor tilts heavily towards playing Manuel.

So you're telling me that you can always just renegotiate Jay Cutler's contract? That he'll either give away or push out millions of dollars of his contract money because he's a good guy? Really?

Why would a guy who seems very much like a QB who doesn't care about football or winning, rework his astronomical deal? That would be like believing Cutler is fine with giving millions of dollars away. I certainly don't think Cutler would bet on himself to be good four years down the road where he would recoup his money in a tradeoff for the hopes of a 3 or 4 year playoffs/Superbowl run. If the Bears take on some of Cutlers money towards the deal then they won't be giving you a high pick, I would think it would either one or the other. If he doesn't rework his deal then the defense will lose great players due to the salary cap. Then there is the fact that Cutler has had 24 turnovers in 14 games. Where Orton has had 10 turnovers in 10 games. I just don't understand how adding that many extra turnovers helps the Bills. If there's a tradeoff then I'm taking the QB with lower passing numbers vs almost double the turnovers. The positive stats simply do not sufficiently overcome that rate of those turnovers. I think Bills fans are overthinking the problem. There is no simple answer. The only answer I see is keeping Orton around as a fallback option to Manuel and a FA QB with potential. Along the way there may be a team that offers a deal for you to obtain a better QB than Orton, but if that doesn't happen then the Bills MUST spend their time pursing getting the offensive line situation, the OC situation and the TE situation fixed ONCE AND FOR ALL. Because if the Bills can run the ball at will and play great defense, then they should have a decent passing game. If they have that then they can get to the playoffs and even get to the Superbowl with either Orton or Manuel.

Why in the world would New Orleans trade away their franchise QB who still plays like a franchise QB? Yes he's getting up there in age, but so what. The guy looks to have at least three good years left. Trading him away would be considered the dumbest move ever in NFL history. This thread is totally nonsensical to me.

Joe Montana. You did say 30 years and he won the Superbowl 30 years ago...LOL I'm not saying that Kellen Moore is the answer to our QB problems, just that he has real NFL level passing skills (anticipation and accuracy which are probably more important than arm strength) that are intriguing enough to be another "lottery ticket" towards finding a franchise QB for the Bills. They would then have two "lottery ticket" QBs in Manuel and Moore, with Orton as the fall back option. Just think of how many millions of people are in this country and that there are only about 6-8 guys that are truly franchise QBs. They don't grow on trees. You can't order one with the click of a button. If someone says Sam Bradford, then you can retort that he is always hurt. There are real negatives with every QB option out there, so my solution is to simply find a FA QB with passing skills who hasn't had the chance to compete for a starting job and add him to the mix.

I think that Moore does know how to maneuver in the pocket (which is the more optimal skill than scrambling). Also, I don't think Detroit cares very much who their #2 or #3 QB is. It'd be interesting to see who they'd send in if Stafford got hurt and they had to make a choice in a game that meant something. I think it would be much more harmful for the Bills to put all their chips and cap money in for Cutler than to add in a low contract FA QB like Moore who can pass the ball better than both our current QBs. The dude is 6", it's not like he's Doug Flutie small.

Would a bold move be signing Kellen Moore and adding him to the mix of Orton and Manuel? He's a young QB who seems to be the mirror opposite of EJ Manuel. Short vs Tall Non-Athletic vs Athletic Anticipating throws vs Not Anticipating throws Non-runner vs Runner Accuracy vs Non-Accuracy Weak Arm vs Strong Arm No regular season playing time vs 14 games worth of playing time It seems to me that adding a possible "diamond in the rough" like Kellen Moore might be the way to go because the Bills would be adding a very talented passer who's two main faults are his small body type and a "weak" arm (which doesn't matter nearly as much when you can throw the ball like he does). I could totally see Moore being signed, earning a chance to start and becoming a franchise QB for a team that gives him a chance because he actually knows how to anticipate where receivers will be and he throws it with pin point accuracy. I think adding Moore would seriously push both Orton and Manuel to bring their "A" game because neither can touch Moore's pure passing ability and Moore would be given an honest shot at earning the starting job unlike he had with Stafford in Detroit. Why blow a ton of cap money on the failure/waiting for the train wreck that is Cutler, when the Bills can ride their defense and take their chances with a three horse race with Orton, Manuel and Moore. I know I'm not the first person to bring Kellen Moore's name up, but I'm just sick of thinking about them bringing in Cutler so much so that I wanted to make a push for Moore. Cutler's "I don't care" attitude is a drama in and of itself before even getting to his turnover issues. Is it any more risky to go with the three horse race I mentioned and in the process saving a ton of cash for our defensive players?

Be very afraid of interceptions so you don't ever throw the ball deep, then eek out a TD and enough FGs to win you games against the average to bad teams and even beat one very good team with four FGs because their QB was destroyed by your #1 defense. This offense is suffocated by the very very conservative play calling. It's a wet blanket. The overwhelming amount of short passes are killing this team's running game and the ability to score TDs. The opposing defenses have no need to worry about defending beyond the sticks because the Bills have been so nice as to have taken that option off the table themselves. The only way you open up the running game and also score TDs is by challenging teams with the deep ball. This is the main reason for Hackett's failure as an OC.

Nate Hackett isn't good at his job. The Buffalo Bills are primed for a real push at the playoffs and possibly a Superbowl run next year and it would be foolish to continue the charade. Just like Hackett demoted Manuel, he needs to do the same with Hackett. If he doesn't want a demotion then he can go look elsewhere for work. I hope they hire Chan Gailey or someone with a real track record of success getting the most out of his QBs. If not Chan, then there should be a few OC upgrades available after the season ends and teams start let go of coaches.

Let's say that you owned a company and someone you were looking to hire had the talent to do the job, but he didn't want to do the job. However, he is willing to go through the motions to collect his paycheck. Would you not only hire the guy, but make him the top paid employee? Jay Cutler doesn't CARE about football! 99% of Chicago fans are done with him because they can see with their own eyes that he doesn't CARE about football. There is NO WAY the Bills bring that slacker into their locker room filled with players who have heart.

They way they talk is like he was a total disaster which was not the case. He just looked like a kid who was not prepared for the test when defenses started to make him uncomfortable knowing what he was going to do. The fact remains that no ones knows what EJ Manuel will become because he doesn't have the 30 starts you usually need to get a final picture of an NFL QB. With that being said, I'm actually starting to hope the Bills trade for RGIII (only if he is willing to drop his attitude and put his all in a comeback attempt). The goal would be to have two potential franchise QBs EJ and RGIII battle it out for the starting job with Orton's below average services not being needed any longer. The Bills should be a running/big pass play team (kind of like the team the Ravens were when they won it all) with the QB throwing play action passes 20+ yards down the field on at least 8-10 plays. If the Bills get their line straightened out in this coming draft and they get a competent OC, then the starting QB should have a much easier time having the team at least mid pack in points scored on offense.