1billsfan

Hope you're a big fan of Fitzpatrick, because if Peters is gone I predict he'll be our starting QB by game three.

I get the feeling that supersized NYS taxes are getting in the way of things here. When contracts get that big, players are fully aware of the huge amounts being taken away by NYS. They over-payed for Dockery and Walker, so it stands to reason that they'd have to over-pay for Peters or trade him (or put up with the needless distraction of a long and drawn out holdout). I think that since the Bills are in a do or die and blow the f'r up mode this year that there should be no lingering excuses. Life is short, you can't take it with you Ralph, if Kelsay is getting 6 million a year then Peters is damn worth 9-10 million so give him the extra f'n money and move on to the draft.

Thanks, it's a good thread. My palms are already starting to get sweaty over the coming draft knowing that the same guys who were there in 2006 are still there. I know it's crazy talk, but I like to think it's places like TSW that must help shame them into not getting "cute" and reaching with that #11 pick.

That first gut reaction is generally right. Just like when I found out that the Bills were hiring Dick Jauron. It took me a week to get over that and convince myself that the guy isn't that bad. Ouch.

This is a great thread because it's provoking thoughtful debate on what I think was clearly a big mistake by the Bills front office. I'll admit that I was being a little bit facetious when I was the first to start referring to Whitner as being a big bust. Truth is, and as another poster here put it here, Donte Whitner was a big reach. 99.9% of the TSW crowd wanted Ngata when he was sitting there to be taken at our #8 pick. But as the Bills are so apt to do, they got cute and chose a guy that was rated in the back half of the first round. TSW was smarter than our "cute" team that spent 3 months and countless hours preparing for the 2006 draft. Hindsight being 20-20, Donte should have been rated as a second or third round pick because that's been his production level three years in. At best, an average NFL starting safety. I remember the outrage here when the draft pick came in. I was like, whooooo???? WTF???? But as it always seems to go, Bills fans fell into line and looked forward to the Bills being the smart ones. Whitner being a lights out star safety. They started to get mad at all the pundits who were laughing at the Bills "reaching" for Whitner when Ngata was there staring them in the face waiting to be selected. Bills fans don't want to admit the pundits were right, that their first instincts of outrage were right. It's debatable whether he can be considered a bust (depends on your definition), but it's not debatable that they guy was a major reach and that Ngata should be anchoring the middle of our defense today. They got the Lynch selection right and it looks like the "best player available model" McKelvin was a very good selection, but the level of bust Whitner was will forever be debated because I just don't see him breaking out as a player. It doesn't take three years to figure out how to be even a very good safety, either you have that kind of talent or you don't. He doesn't.

You do realize that Jerry Sullivan's column has nothing to do with the Bills play on the field, right? It's so weird that there are fans on this message board that are more pissed at the local Buffalo writer than they are with this 10 year and counting playoff-less team that they root for. Truly amazing.

Not only is your buddy Whitner a below average safety, but he's a below average safety who's apparently only ready to jack someone up when he's got some beer muscles. The only good "role" he's ready to play is in the special edition of "COPS - Don't Taser Me Bro #4".

It was bad enough that he's been a major bust. Now he's getting into trouble with the law? Hey, at least Lynch has proved he can play in this league. Trade this loser now, I'm as sick of seeing him as I am seeing Jauron.

Wow, you might be too smart for this place. Lot of ass-backwards fans here who think just like the ass-backwards Bills front office which is why I see the Bills probably trading Peters and replacing him with the cheap and uber-lazy Andre Smith.

Dick has no feel at all for what it takes to be even a good NFL head coach. This is after 8 seasons of trying. He is a joke. This time next year we will have a new head coach and hopefully Peters is still here with a long term deal.

So because of one anonymous quote from another team's GM (which of course we all know is the gospel truth), now Peters has a "league wide" reputation as being more interested in a big payday? You just keep right on buying into the drivel coming from One Bills Drive. It's no wonder why Ralph gets away with this cheap-ass way of doing business. After a decade of futility he's still got fans guarding his big fat wallet.

What Peter's has accomplished is to go from being an undrafted TE to becoming one of the best LTs in the game. Football contracts are renegotiated all of the time and it's only because of Peter's exponential rise to probowl LT staus that his last renegotiated contract was quickly out of step with his talent. That's supposed to be a good thing if this were any other NFL team that took care of their best players. But on the Bills he gets the back hand of a tightwad owner who refuses to pay the going rate to his only player that has actually accomplished something of note. Trading Peters to save money is shameful and Bills fans who are backing the owner had better not complain when Fitzy is starting the majority of games after the Trent "china doll" Edwards has been broken to a million bits.

You know which teams he wouldn't have a place on? The Patriots, Dolphins and Jets. BTW, he sucks against the run also. In six years he has 169 tackles which averages to 28 tackles per season.

How many magazines do these guys have out there? I just bought the The Sporting News Draft Guide '09 and their three round mock draft has the Bills taking... 1st Aaron Curry OLB WF 2nd Travis Beckum TE WIS 3rd Johnathan Luigs C ARK

Very well put. Where's the outrage here over Chris Kelsay still being on this team and pulling in close to SIX MILLION DOLLARS a year???? There is none, only outrage at the criticisms over non-probowler Bills like Whitner and Edwards. For them to trade Peters knowing full well this is the watershed year for their head coach and third year injury prone QB is asinine, which is why I do actually think the trade will happen. Top to bottom this whole organization is asinine.

Who's the defensive player that we'd be willing to give up an extra first round pick for? This team would have a huge hole at LT, and holes at center, guard, TE and OLB. I just don't see a defensive player worthy of giving up two firsts at the expense of getting our QB killed. I think we're fine we're sitting at that #11 spot. The Bills should just cut Kelsay and use that money to make up the difference of Peters' asking price for what's going to be a crossroads season for the head coach and QB. No more excuses!!

But the really big plus about Trent Edwards was that he had the poise and natural instincts to play the position. That the learning curve was very short. So if a QB with a supposed very short learning curve can't get it together and have a good season with guys like Owens, Evans, Lynch and Jackson in his third season then don't you think there's a major problem. Is it too much to ask that Trent have a good season this year? That's being very fair to the guy since were now seeing teams going to the playoffs with rookie QBs like Ryan and Flacco. If Trent does in fact have another bad season, the Bills will have only about four wins, Jauron will be fired and the new head coach will draft a QB with that very high draft pick. If you were the new Bills head coach, would you rather give Trent a fourth year to prove himself or draft a very promising QB with a top five draft pick (which would be the range the Bills would no doubt be picking in)? Put in that position I'm picking the QB.

Says the guy who doesn't feel like the Bills need to pay and keep Jason Peters. The first actually good offensive lineman we've had in about ten years. Says the guy who likes to use the word "retarded" in his posts. Real classy. Says the guy who's still willing to defer to the Buffalo staff on football related decisions. Says the guy who thinks a college player that weighed in at 230 pounds as early as January of this year would be a good pick at #11 and become our starting left defensive end. Throwing a little hissy fit because I like Ayers more than your puffed up Maybin (which was obvious after reading some of your recent posts) just isn't cool. As for Losman, I was wrong and I've said so more than a few times already. I think it's time that you've moved on from your obsession of getting back at the fans who dared to support Losman.

Bills Trade Whitner to Eagles for a 2nd (as a replacement for Dawkins). Though I'm turned off by Whitner, I believe he still does have the cache in the league to garner a 2nd rounder. Sanchez falls and Bills swap firsts with Vikings (they still need to find their long term guy) for their second round pick. 1. Robert Ayers DE, Tennessee 2a. Max Unger C Oregon, Alex Mack C California or Eric Wood, Louisville 2b. Marcus Freeman OLB Ohio State 2c. Duke Robinson OG Oklahoma 3. Cornelius Ingram TE, Miami Bills sign Mike Brown cheap with George Wilson fighting it out in camp for the starters roll Other than firing Dick Jauron, that'd make me a happy Bills fan!

Reading comprehension and Magox, not a winning combo.

Any one of them would have established themselves as very good players just the way that Clements, Greer and McGee did without a good pass rush in front of them. Hell, McKelvin has shown more playmaking ability on defense in one year than Whitner has in three freaking years. So while they are greatly helped with a pass rush, they would still be great players here regardless since we have had players in the secondary excel in recent years. Whitner never has established himself and is changing positions because he has been a failure at strong safety. That's not a very promising event for Whitner excuse makers like yourself. Have those three plays ready to back up your argument against Dawg yet?

That's going to be the most fun part of this season. Watching the TO melt down when he gets a real look at the Bills' mind numbing offensive schemes on gameday. To me, since Jauron has come to town, the Bills have seriously have looked like they don't want to score. That it's not that high of a priority. I can't even imagine what happens with TO on the sideline this year, holy crap. Get your popcorn ready.

He gave you three plays to use as support for his argument that Whitner doesn't have top tiered talent. Can you give us three plays to support why you think Whitner does exhibit top tiered talent?

Mike Williams is a 5 out of 5 thumbs up on the bust scale. Whitner is a 3 out of 5. The Bills will never live down passing on Ngata. It hurts badly, but still not nearly as badly as Williams.

I did answer your question and just like you're doing with Dawg you're refusing to be accepting of very reasonable criticisms of Donte Whitner.