BillsFanForever19

Lol no - for some reason when I linked to my Oliver post, it ended posting it above the link and spaced out. I've since edited the post to just be the link. Don't know why it did that.

I think anyone who has followed this saga and didn't see Beane shutting it down, the Arizona GM saying he's not trading him, not trading him on Draft Day, and the final coffin of Hopkins publicly coming around to staying in Arizona as this being dead is at the absolute least, completely delusional. As for where we're "top heavy", it's called better depth than we had. At RB, OG, and DT - we're in better shape than we were last season. And we needed to be given what each position gave us last season. You don't put yourself in a better situation and then say "eh, we don't need all of this, let's short change ourselves". RB is perfect right now. We've always carried 4 RB's on the 53. We have 4 RB's right now. Murray had a good year last year, but it was all in relief of injured players called up from the Practice Squad. At his age, that's what his role is right now. Cook, Harris, and Hines are going nowhere. OG was one of our weakest positions for years. We lost Saffold and brought in McGovern, Torrence, and Edwards. We now have a Starting calibur OG no matter the situation. Why would you want to change that? Even if we were to move, say Bates, it would have nothing to do with Hopkins. As for DT and specifically Oliver, that's not going to happen either. Oliver isn't going anywhere. I spoke in depth about why here: https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/247138-poona-ford-signing-with-the-bills/?do=findComment&comment=8388259

It's not a confirmed fact that the league looks at him as just a situational pass rusher this year after starting every game last season. That's just your opinion. And based on recent history, that's an opinion that isn't based in statistics. There was a log jam of available talent surely asking for large amounts of money and a number of teams that would address their need at DE in the Draft. Him being available now has more to do with that than meaning no one thinks he can start anymore. Now that the Draft has ended, teams that weren't able to land a high pedigree DE will revisit the list of those available. Ngakoue is in Tier 1 of that list. Surely not all of them will get starting roles. But Ngakoue will assuredly have better options for more playing time elsewhere than rotational behind Von Miller and Greg Rousseau, even in the event he doesn't start the season on the top of someone's depth chart - which I still believe is likely. Again, with the role we're offering (if were even looking at DE at all, after bringing back Shaq and Miller on pace to not miss any time), it's going to be for someone who is desperate for pennies on the dollar. Of that list, Ngakoue is one of the, if not THE, least likely option to become desperate.

Yes, that's his legit account and he unfortunately unironically tweeted that. The tweet is probably another reason why he's still out there. Not a smart move. https://nesn.com/2023/03/patriots-isaiah-wynn-sets-free-agency-price-with-bizarre-tweet/

QB - Allen, Allen RB - Cook, Harris, Hines, Murray FB/TE - Gilliam WR - Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, Shorter TE - Kincaid, Knox OL - Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Torrence, Brown Bates, Edwards, Quessenberry, Gouraige DE - Miller, Rousseau, Lawson, Epenesa, Basham DT - Oliver, Jones, Ford, Phillips, Settle LB - Milano, Bernard, Klein, Williams, Dodson, Matakevitch CB - White, Elam, Johnson, Jackson, Benford, Neal S - Poyer, Hyde, Rapp, Hamlin ST - Bass, Martin, Ferguson

Incorrect. Take a look at his game log - https://www.nfl.com/players/yannick-ngakoue/stats/ 2022 - 15 games, 15 starts 2021 - 17 games, 17 starts In fact, the only season he didn't start every game he played in his career was 2020. And that was due to being traded to a new team before the start of the season and being traded again midseason. Again, there are DE's that will have to settle for a rotational pass rusher role with us. But Ngakoue is the top echelon of available DE's. There are teams that he could start on and he'd be signed to start on. If we bring one in, it will probably come later when the list has dwindled and a solid option is just looking to get on a team and will take anything. And with how deep the list is, it may very well be a very solid option.

Yeah, but how is he going to do that on a team that doesn't have a clear defining starting role for him? Miller by all accounts is on pace for not missing any regular season time. I don't see them wanting to remove Groot from the Starting Lineup. Would Ngakoue get his fake share of reps cycled in? Sure. But why would he take that role when he's the #1 DE option out there and could surely get an etched in stone starting role on another team? If we were to add a DE, it would be someone from the list who has to settle for an off the bench role. As I said above, that's way more likely to be a Quinn, Houston, Clowney, Ingram, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, or Clark.

Yannick would be great. But of the DE's remaining who may have to settle, Yannick is the least likely to have to. He's the #1 available DE. If we were to get a DE, which I'm not convinced we will following signing Shaq back and Von being on pace to not miss any time, it would be more like a Quinn, Houston, Clowney, or Dunlap than an Ngakoue, Floyd, or Clark.

Of course I'd take him. But Isaiah Wynn isn't signing somewhere to not start. And while Beane may want some insurance behind Brown in case of injury or poor performance, he's not looking to outright replace Brown. Wynn is also available now because he's looking for big money. Something we're also not going to do. So if we were to sign another OT, it would be someone else. I'd look at someone like George Fant or Cameron Fleming as the best possible scenario.

I mean, it's fun to think about trading for Justin Jefferson too. But just like Hopkins it's not going to happen. Hopkins being traded to us is dead. Beane has said time and again he's not interested in the deal. He drafted the top pass catcher in the Draft and a very intriguing prospect in Shorter. The Cardinals GM made it clear he's not moving him. Hopkins has publicly stated he's back with Arizona. It's over.

As I said above, you understand that if that happens and we can't afford him and lose him that we'd get a Comp pick in return right? We're getting a 3rd for Edmunds. Which is more than we would have gotten trying to trade him last season. Whatever we'd get for Oliver now would be the same or less than the comp pick we'd get. And we'd get this year out of him as well.

Beane said he has been talking to his people and he hopes to get it done. Whether that means before the season or after the season remains to be seen. But this concept of "you have to get something for him before you lose him for nothing" is short sighted and not a real thing. You don't see a rash of teams trading away players in the last year of their rookie deal because they haven't gotten an extension done before the season. The reasons for that are: 1.) When GM's draft a player, they do it with the expectation that they have them for *at least* 4-5 seasons under a cost controlled Rookie deal. GM's don't think "well, I may or may not be able to get him back, so let's cut this deal shorter" 2.) Teams aren't interested in making deals for people who are only under contract for 1 year. Why give up a pick when they'll be free to sign for nothing in a year? Why give up a pick when you don't know if you're going to have him longer than a year? If it were to happen, we'd get peanuts in return because of these reasons. 3.) If we cannot re-sign a player on a Rookie deal and he signs elsewhere for big money, you get a compensatory pick. And that pick is likely to be more than you'd get in a trade anyways. It's all the rage to point to Edmunds and say "we didn't trade him and now we've lost him for nothing in return". But that's not true. We got that year out of him last season and we're getting a 3rd Round pick on top of it. Which is more than we'd have gotten trading him. Long story short, Oliver was never going to be traded. And in the small chance it were to have happened, it would have been done by now. Now it doesn't make any sense any way you look at it. Why would we make ourselves worse at starting 3T when we don't have to? There's no one out there that is better than him. Why would we need to at this point? Our roster is pretty much set at this point. Especially when it comes to starters. We've filled all of our needs already and just need some small finishing touches. We're going to give away a starter for some reserve players at other positions? How does that make sense?

He's brought up wanting to re-sign him unsolicited. While there's sense in what you're saying in a vacuum - the concept doesn't make sense. Why would we voluntarily make ourselves worse at the position? If he's as expendable as many make him out to be, why would a team give up a Draft pick, 10m in cap space, and no guarantee they have him beyond one year? Ed Oliver was never going anywhere and especially not now. Post Draft with teams having filled their needs and low on funds.

Never happening. Wasn't happening during the Draft. Isn't happening now. This is a fan made up idea like Edmunds was last year. Anytime he's brought up around Beane he talks about wanting to re-sign him. He'll either get extended before the year or he'll be a FA after this season. But he's "definitely" not going anywhere. He's our best 3T and there isn't a better one available out there. Teams don't trade for guys with 1 year left on their contract with a 10m cap hit. Anything is possible in the NFL. But you're living in a fantasy world thinking it's a definite.

Sure. If definitely means definitely not.

He's a great insurance policy. He may make the 53 as the 4th RB. But as I said, he's this year's TJ Yeldon, Matt Breida, or Duke Johnson. Break Glass in Case of Emergency Veteran RB, who can be relied upon if there's an injury. And like you said, here's hoping we'll never have to break the glass and he gets a ring.

Guaranteed he won't if Cook, Harris, and Hines all stay healthy. Like I said, Beane dresses 3 RB's. And Murray will not play in place of Cook, Harris, or Hines. Murray was a Practice Squad RB all of last season. He only saw the field because of injuries. It will be the same thing here. If there's an injury to any of the 3 - he'll be dressed and playing. Barring an injury, he will not.

Latavius isn't going to see the field unless there's an injury. All this talk about what he can do paired with whomever is moot. He's good for depth in case of an injury. But he will not dress on Sunday's unless that happens. He's this year's TJ Yeldon, Matt Breida, or Duke Johnson. He'll be at best our 4th RB on the 53 who doesn't see the field and at worst our Practice Squad RB. McDermott has only ever dressed 3 RB's on Sundays. 2 True RB's and one who plays ST's (was Taiwan Jones and Senorise Perry the one year Jones wasn't here). Cook and Harris will dress with Hines providing more offensive capability than previous ST's backs (while still providing ST Return capability).

Gotcha. I mean, by and large UDFA's aren't expected to make the roster. Especially a roster as strong as ours. If they make the Practice Squad here, they've done well. That's why ours sometimes get poached by teams that have weaker rosters. So, yeah, I don't think any UDFA WR is going to make it. Barring an injury, we've got 6 WR's etched in stone already with Diggs, Davis, Harty, Shakir, Sherfield, and Shorter.

Yeah, that confused me. He's not listed as a sought after UDFA on any list I've seen. But I'm not a scout and presumably neither are the people making these lists. Yeah, no. Maybe a UDFA could beat out a 7th Round Pick. But Shorter will be on the 53 being a 5th Round Pick. Beane's already said he Drafted him because he sees him having "a jersey". Shavers is playing for a Practice Squad spot. He's not making the squad over Shorter, no matter what he does in Pre-Season garbage time. Only way he's making the 53 is if they determine they want to keep 7 WR's or someone gets hurt. Even then, I like Jalen Wayne's chances more. He's a universally higher regarded prospect than Shavers.

Pretty cool to see many of our UDFA class ranked in the top 10 on best available by position on NFL.com. A lot of years our group is made up of guys predominantly not ranked on the NFL.com list at all: DT DJ Dale - #2 Ranked DT OT Richard Gouriage - #5 Ranked OT OT Noah Henderson - #9 Ranked OT RB Jordan Mims - #8 Ranked RB WR Jalen Wayne - #15 Ranked WR - QB Logan Bonner (Tryout) - #7 Ranked QB DT Taron Vincent (Tryout) - #9 Ranked DT RB Isaiah Bowser (Tryout) - #24 Ranked RB Just WR Braydon Johnson and WR Tyrell Shavers of our signings and LB James Patterson of our tryouts who didn't make the list. https://www.nfl.com/news/top-undrafted-rookie-free-agents-following-the-2023-nfl-draft

Damn. That's a blast from the past, "if you know, you know" kinda comment. Can't see Josh Allen showboating it up extra yardage on a bootleg against a vested vet. Or that vested vet deciding Josh needs to be brought down a peg or two for being an overly cocky youngster.

Well we're at 83 now between the roster we had prior to the Draft, the Draft picks we made, the addition of Murray, and the 7 (yet to be announced officially) UDFA signings. So I think it will probably be closer to 90 than that, unless some cuts are made or we're only signing 1 more player.

This is like saying any player drafted in the 1st Round to fill a role is meaningless. Whether he has "played a down" or not is meaningless. He was by many the top pass catcher in the entire Draft. We traded up to get him to fill the role as one of the top 2 options for Josh split out wide. Teams don't look at 1st Round picks and say "I can't rely on this, better get a vet too". Kincaid and Harty will make Davis have less on his plate than last season. There is no #2 problem, outside of a few fans like yourself. Davis isn't Higgins. But 90% of the teams in the league don't have 2 Elite WR's on the field at the same time. Davis is high on the list of WR2 productivity. And Kincaid makes him option 2B or 3 now. And Harty may take Davis off the field in certain packages as well.