Bob in STL

I was born in 1958 and I was born into being a Bills fan. I remember watching the Bills (or any football game, or any sporting event) on Sunday afternoon with my father and my Uncles at my grandparents house on the West Side of Buffalo. It was part of life, like breathing. Sunday's in the fall and winter consisted of church, big Italian dinners, resting, and watching football all day. Yes, I was the gopher to, running errands, getting beers, pop, water, whatever. I can clearly remember the Bills championship teams of 64 and 65. In 66 I even drove to a bar in Erie, Pa with my Dad and my uncle to watch the Bills-Chiefs play in the AFL championship game for the right to play in the first Super Bowl (which was not even called a Super Bowl back then). The game was blacked out in Buffalo; we got smoked by the Chiefs. I still have some memorabilia from that era. I have been a die-hard fan forever. I went to college in Rochester (RIT) and left the area in 1981. I live in St. Louis now. I go back to Buffalo every year to see family. I go to at least one home game a season. I take my two sons with me as I have sucessfully brainwashed them into being Bills fans too. We tail gate with 3 of my brothers and their sons. Thank God for the Bills!!

Things that good coaching staffs strongly influence are: 1 - better preparation for opponents (beyond the first drive and especially after the first half), 2 - better execution (simple plays like picking up a yard on 3rd and 1 will work if you execute them correctly), 3 - fewer mental errors (reduce penalties, sacks, turnovers), 4 - winning attitude (steal a few games). Last year we could have beat New England once, the Jets twice, and both New Orleans and Atlanta (a home game loss).

I'm not sure I follow all of your logic but I think TD failed because he tends to be a one man show, he does not build a cohesive organization, he does not empower his people. This flaw is why he lost the power struggle with Bill Cowher in Pittsburgh. TD's biggest error in Buffalo have to be his choices in head coaches. Both of them were bright coordinators that lacked the experience and would not challenge him. In total hid drafts were so-so. He seemed to struggle on day 2. His use of free agency was good and he brought in some good solid vets while managing the cap. He deserves kudo's for cap managememnt and for keeping things exciting. On the flip side he did not find a QB (unless Losman develops) and he really misjudged the talent level of his offensive line acquisitions. I am happy to see TD go. I doubt he will get another chance as a GM.

< ... insert sound of crickets chirping here ... >

Does anyone think Bennett has a shot at the Hall of Fame?

Yes, I remember that very clearly. Jones was thought to be one tier below Fat Mike and McKinnie. He was projected to be a late first rounder. They alll said the Bengals "reached" by picking him were they did. It's now four years later and Jones is clearly the best tackle in that draft, and it is not even close. The clowns on ESPN complained about "value" on that pick. That may have been the first time I heard them really harp on value. Kiper the rest of those guys are entertainers, not scouts. Of course there is hope for Whitner and McCargo. If they are good players then the picks are good picks. That is all there is to it. There is no realistic metric to measure "value" on the day of the draft because no one can predict the future.

That is very unfair. Are you kidding me? The issue is the context of the question when Ralph answered "too complex". "Too complex" could have meant we need more time to review it and come to a consensus and not that it is over his head. That is how I understood the reports. The press was shameful in their treatment of Ralph. By the way, most of these owners could not understand this information on their own without first having their lawyers read it and interpret it for them. This could have taken days or weeks to sort out. Want proof? It is now starting to surface. If anything, this shows that Ralph is sharper than most of them. Isn't time that our society assign proper value to the aged? Hopefully that will be a lesson learned from this whole mess.

I disagree with all of these names. Moorman - known as one of ther top punters in the league today. Flutie - Gets more publicity as a backup than most starters; his Hail Mary pass will live forever. Reich - Forever known for "the comeback"! Ritcher - Was under rated for many years but is known in Buffalo as a Wall of Fame guy Bill Simpson - He had pro-bowl credentials as a LA Ram and played less than 2 full years as a Buffalo Bill; he fell down in the San Deigo playoff game loss and that play cost us the game. How about a guy like Joe Devlin?

Concur ... for that era.

I thought it was straw?

FS should be Kelso. He was a good FS in his prime and played many seasons. Forget the Gazoo helmet. He was 100 times tougher than most people his size. TE should be Pete Metzellars. Best blocker in the league and he had good recieving numbers. Unfortunately for McKeller, his career was cut short. ST - Tasker has to be there. DE - Phil Hansen deserves a mention. ILB - What about the guy from Ohio State?

Was the room you were locked in padded?

There are hundreds of threads, dating back to the day of the draft and many week past, that cover this topic ad nauseum. Bottom line -- If he turns out to be a star player then it is a good pic, no matter what round, not matter what position. The whole ESPN "value" rating is just bizzare.

Anderson missed every kick in the preseason. He was awful. The Steelers lucked out as Anderson had a long and productive career. The Steelers had to get him for less $$ off of waivers than we were offering. Contract or no contract if Anderson missed those kicks on purpose then he is a bigger puss than I thought.

Jim Overdorf handles the contracts and the cap. He had this role for Donahoe as well and he is quite astute. Everything must be cleared through Marv and Ralph but I would think Marv defers to Overdorf on these things.

For most of his career John Fina was good. I agree that he lost a step in last two years and it took a toll on his play. The Bills should have moved Fina to Guard. The same thing happend to Joe Devli. He was moved to guard when he lost a step and could not play tackle. The difference is that Develin finished his career with Marv, and Fina with Gregggggg, who was clueless about offense.

Ostoski is another guy who I think geta bad rap. He is not a star but heck he did OK. I would take Ostroski any day over Teague. Ostroski was a classic over acheiver. He was not even drafted and yet he started at several positions

Byron Franklin was not a bad player at all. He took time to develop and sat on the bench behind some good WRs in Jerry Butler and Company. He had some good years, some injuries, and then he played for another team (Atlanta I think). No way was he in the category of a Bucky Brooks or some of the others on your list.

My comments, I assume you are talking about players that started for awhile: RB - A. Smith had some good years, especially at NE. Bryson and Linton were weak as starters. WR - Quinn Early was decent, but we got him at the twilight of his career. FB - I liked Garner - he was a mean sob! OT - John Fina was a good football player. I never understood the hostility towards him? He slipped his last few years at LT but if we had more talent at OT we could have moved him to OG like they did for Joe Devlin and he would have been fine. OT's to add - Jerry Crafts, Chris Farris -- both were putrid. OG - Lacina had a good career with the Vikings. He was better than the crap we replaced him with. Add M. Sullivan to your list of losers. LB - Keith Newman was decent. Eddie Robinson was over the hill as a Bill. He had a strong career in Houston. Brandon Spoon was a weak player at linebacker. CB - Kenny Irvin was decent, he did not suck at all. ST Bruce DeHaven was an excellent ST coach! I think this is your biggets error. Wade Phillips ruined the special teams and Wade used Bruce as a scapegoat. DeHaven is still in the league and his group is always at the top. HC - Mularkey was worse than Williams. He had less talent and his teams did not quit on him (and I don't care for Williams by any means).

TC - I agree that we are on the upswing but lets face it, we have an unproven QB, many unproven players on the OL, and not much experience at DT. I am not sure was have it in the trenches to run and stop the run. I watch the games at Hot Shots in St. Charles. I hope to see you there. - Bob

The question was the past 15 years. So 1990-91 is the cutoff. Otherwise you add Fergy, Cribbs, Butler, and a more.

Rating by value to the team and on field performance: RB - - I would put Kenny Davis ahead of Henry and McGahee (so far) FB - I think Garner and Mueller desrve mention Ot - I put Fina and Parker ahead of Jennings (any day of the week) OG - I put Richter first, then Brown, then Davis/Parker P- Kidd and Mohr werr good and deserve mention SS - Add Schulz

Afer reading this thread, and particularly the names of the LTs listed , it is impossible for me to answer as to whether he is "above average" or even average. If he was so clearly above average then I seriously doubt would the Bills have been able to get him as a low tier free agent signing. That is not to say he doesn't have good upside either. One thing we know is that the Bills did not seriously pursue any other potential free agent tackles other than talking to Fabini. They drafted developmental tackles. Maybe they are content with Gandy and they think he is above average? Most likely he is an adequate (average) player and they will be looking at LTs again in the next off season, having chosen to address the defense first.

.... so you actually think that "whomever is inheriting the team", assuming there is such a person, would be reading this forum and would be willing to share their thoughts with you? <play Twilight Zone theme here>

Hmmm interesting. I am always leary of the " I'm not appreciated" types but the guy is far better than any tackle we have had since Wolford and Ballard. Thanks for the update.