vtnatefootball11

I completely agree that Kincaid does not replace Knox at all. But I do think it adds to the argument that Knox was clearly not the do it all elite TE that deserves top 5 money at the position. We can only pay so many guys $10mil plus, they have to be a major impact player. I just think Knox is an above average player, nothing more. That's all I'm saying.

I obviously said it in jest, I have been very vocal with my disdain for that contract even prior to last season. We signed him at the absolute worst time after his TD numbers were inflated. It looks even worse now with our TE usage last year and now drafting Kincaid. I think its pretty well understood by everyone that Josh had some influence there, that's not something that's going to be evidenced in writing but you would have to be pretty naive to think that his well documented friendship with Knox had nothing to do with the Beane locking him up. Is that really what you think?

Actually he will have just turned 27 heading into his free agency, and that's assuming Jags use a 5th year option and then don't give him a contract. Don't forget who the Jags QB is, Trevor will certainly have a say in the matter (see Knox's terrible contract that JA pressured the Bills to sign). Etienne will get a significant second contract barring another freak injury.

Jones should be higher, like low-mid 80s I agree, but Murray rating is about right.

This is a great comparison. Another interesting parallel to watch is the WR situation. I remember for a while the big complaint in Indy was that they didn't have a proper #2 to compliment Marvin Harrison. It wasn't until they got Reggie Wayne where they were able to get over the hump. Wonder if it will be the same for the Bills.

No he signed him after his 3rd year, that was the leap that not all teams have made it and it certainly saved the Bills some money.

Disagree with this take. The Chiefs situation with Mahomes, Kelce and Reid is entirely unique and letting an elite receiver go is not a winning formula. Additionally, Hill was MUCH closer to the end of his career than Jefferson or Chase, the situations really aren't even comparable. CIN and MIN will absolutely lock them down, not even a question.

Klein would be an incredible liability at MLB. He is a backup outside linebacker at very best at this point in his career. I doubt we sign him back. Dodson and Spector our depth/ST. We will draft a MLB somewhere in round 1-3 to compete with Bernard. Writing is pretty much on the wall here, don't get the clamoring for Klein he is not the answer at MLB under any circumstance. Don't give me this "he can be out there on running downs" type of thing that is how you get exposed! Every down is a passing down in today's NFL. Would rather play mostly dime base with Rapp as the "dimebacker"

Yes this! Throw in Rashee Rice as an option as well.

This stings a bit. And it makes Hines usage even more questionable. How did we barely use him, but he costs us a 5th round pick, oh and by the way, his salary is quite high for a running back (close to $5mil) and if he doesn't take a huge paycut this offseason we will have to cut him. Not a good look for the FO.

Just FYI on this, that "headline" was an article with several mock headlines and then the ESPN writer commented whether each headline was an overreaction or not. The gist for the Bills one was that it was an overreaction. He said Bills have Allen and core relatively intact, small improvements are needed but they will have a chance year after year for foreseeable future. We will probably still be a favorite next year as well.

Would love to have him back but just don't see how it's possible unless he takes something less than market to be team friendly (maybe $13-14 mil range max). I was thinking that maybe franchise tag is an option and have seen others here mention it but after taking a look at the 2022 values (pasted below), it's out of the question. Unfortunately the 3-4 edge rushing "linebackers" inflate the value of linebackers for tag purposes. He's likely gone. Pos. Franchise tag QB $29,703,000 LB $18,702,000 WR $18,419,000 DE $17,859,000 DT $17,396,000 CB $17,287,000 OL $16,662,000 S $12,911,000 TE $10,931,000 RB $9,570,000 P/K $5,220,000 This does bring up another point, the NFL really needs to have two separate linebacker tag values, one for off-ball backers and one for 3-4 edge rushing backers (or just lump them in with DEs).

Until he drops passes.... Don't get me wrong I like Knox he's a solid starter. He just wasn't worth the contract we gave him and now likely having to lose Edmunds and/or Poyer as a result.

Just gonna gloss over the fact that you confused Bowers with Jones haha? Regardless, before the season I would have agreed with you that he was a luxury signing, similar to Star. But you cannot possibly say that now with the way he has played. For 2023, Phillips and Settle are maybe luxuries, but not Jones. He's a must keep. Plus, as you pointed out, cutting him would create $7m in dead cap, so in fact, they actually can afford him at $8.6m. What they can't afford is to cut him.

Obviously!

Agreed, however, it's upsetting that we are having to let either one go at the expense of Knox. That was a terrible, terrible decision by Beane. Don't get me wrong, Beane has been an amazing GM overall, very few bad decisions in hindsight, but Knox is up there for his worst decision along with Wyatt Teller trade. Knox has progressed a lot and turned into a good starter but he's not a game changer. There was no reason to sign him when we did and give him top 5 money at the position. The only thing I can think of is that there was some pressure from Josh behind the scenes given how close he is with Knox. That's the only way it's justifiable.

I agree and it's especially a shame that we prematurely gave Knox his contract pre-season because we otherwise could probably afford to extend Edmunds. Not saying Knox is a bad player and not even basing this on his usage this year (I'm willing to give him a pass with his brother passing and being asked to block) but there was no way he was worth top 5 TE money. Also, he had just come off an inflated TD season, his leverage could not have been higher, should have waited. Beane has been a great GM, no denying that, but Knox over Edmunds will go down as a misstep. Really wondering if Josh put some pressure on Beane there leading up to the season.

Denver is not a realistic option. They have no draft capital after the Wilson trade. Even after the injury to Williams, they still have Gordon and Murray at RB. They aren't going anywhere this year (honestly their roster isn't that good they are not a contender anytime soon IMO). Next year when Williams comes back they will have no need for both him and CMC. Just makes no sense. Bills make a TON of sense on paper. CMC's contract is actually great, Bills would pay him almost nothing this year and his salary in the remaining years is a steal if he's healthy (would be similar to what we are paying Knox), if not there is no guaranteed money left on the deal can cut/trade him at no penalty, or re work his deal. Having CMC and Singletary to compliment each other would be amazing and put this team over the top. Just don't want to give up too much draft capital to get him.

Of course you take Oliver over Edmunds, but what about Knox over Edmunds? Beane has earned the benefit of the doubt but this appears to be the decision he made (and it looks like a BAD one). I am still struggling to understand it. Knox was due for a touchdown regression this year, even a casual fan could have gleamed that. Bills would have been in a much better spot to negotiate with Knox at year end. Neither Edmunds or Knox are elite, so you hate to pay them top dollar, but Edmunds should have been the priority, much harder skill set to replace IMO.

Very interesting to me to hear so many on this board claim they don't want to pay Edmunds because he doesn't make a huge impact but yet then defended the Knox resigning (I've been very vocal against the Knox deal, not trying to rehash that now, too early time will tell). Not that Edmunds has been elite, his lack of instincts/physicality at times are frustrating given his potential, but with the base nickel defense we run his pass coverage and length are a huge asset and critical to our team's success. He's shown some consistency as well this year through 4 games. Will be quite upset if we end up losing Edmunds to keep Knox.

Fair, "fool" is too harsh. "Unlikely" is what I should have said. And I truly hope you are right about him being worth the contract I will gladly come back to this thread and take the L. This is a good question. In my mind, there are really only three elite TEs right now, (Kelce, Andrews, Kittle) and Pitts may approach that but is too raw overall right now to say elite, Waller was close but fell off due to injury. Maybe Knox will be there after this year, but I see a pretty large gap and hoped his salary would have reflected that. That may have been an unrealistic expectation given where the market is going but was just thinking that if we signed him now it would be at a bit of hometown discount (say 10-11 mill year avg or so). I don't care what other bad decision the browns/pats/others made at TE, paying close to elite money for a TE that isn't in that realm is a tough pill to swallow. He doesn't quite have that length you want for elite upside either. With that said, I can live with this and give Beane the benefit of the doubt (he's earned it) but Knox better take that next step to be a consistent, impact player for us. Similar touchdowns, and significantly more more catches/yards, blocking continues to improve, continue to eliminate drops etc. Fingers crossed!

Haha not gonna lie I am a little.

Why do I care what Bills are paying?? Because the Bills, like every other team are subject to a salary cap and this signing has implications on others who need signing and make more of an impact to our team IMO. I'm looking a couple years ahead at Bills ability to keep one of the best rosters for years and not just be like Green Bay with a QB and nothing else. How would you not care about that? Like I've said repeatedly, hope I'm wrong and Knox becomes an elite player, I just think its a reach, and if it ends up meaning we don't sign Oliver, I bet you I'm not the only one who ends up upset about it. Fair it is an opinion. But saying Knox is elite right now is a pretty wild take, in my opinion. Hope I'm wrong and you're right. Thanks for your hard work as mod, go bills!

Considered one of the best TE's?? By who, us delusional bills fans?? And we just paid him near the top of the TE range! He is good, but he is not on the same level as Andrews/Kelce/Kittle, nor is has he shown the elite receiver skills of Pitts, Waller. Maybe he develops further, everyone here wants that (and appears the Bills are banking on that). I just think it's a risky bet at the expense of not resinging an impact player on defense. He has not shown he can be elite yet, Josh did and is a quarterback. Comparing these two signing is laughable.

Wow did you even watch the games last year? Several gimmicky (Josh Allen pitches near the goal line) and fluke (see broken coverage in long touchdown in KC game) touchdowns for Knox last year. You are a fool if you think that will happen again year over year. His touchdown production was far better than his catches/yards production... all signs point towards a regression in touchdowns. Now his overall usage better increase, and he better continue to improve, or the Bills just made a terrible, terrible decision in singing Knox prior to resigning Oliver. Like I said, I can live the with that gamble, but Dawson Knox has not shown to be an elite player yet, that's a fact.