Beck Water

This. Any field - if you're lucky enough to have a top mentor, you need to take all you can get from them, and take it to heart, and meld it into your heart and mind as much as you can. Because things change. Mentors retire, get promoted, leave to take different positions elsewhere - all kinds of things change. You're absolutely right. If a team is successful, the coordinators will get offers. If a QB can't adjust to different coordinators in today's NFL, he's got a problem.

I think Jordan Palmer doesn't help himself by being America's Guest. Josh's performance on Monday night should not be about losing Daboll. Josh is a big boy now, a 6 year veteran. He doesn't need an "elite football mind" to tell him don't make (at least 2 of) the three throws he made that were intercepted, protect the football vs. trying to get back to the LOS but taking the ball and yourself into traffic. He doesn't. Any ordinary competent fooball mind will tell him that. Josh just has to be willing to be coachable and listen. Daboll has done some good things as a coach. Daboll has done some strange things as a coach. If Daboll is such a great coach, why did his team get drubbed 40-0 on Sunday? It wasn't just that they didn't win, it's that they looked awful. And if Josh learned so much from 4 years with this brilliant football mind, and Josh is as smart and dedicated as Palmer tells us he is, shouldn't he be able to retain some of those learnings from Daboll - at least long enough to not do totally stupid *****?

Yes, Josh was playing "hero ball" or "getting impatient" or whatever you want to call it.

"The former"? "her"? What are you talking about, Josh's girlfriend? She hasn't "gone dark", she's still on Instagram and Tiktok sharing even more thirst traps and photographs of herself in Italy, NYC, Yellowstone, NYC etc etc etc. You don't need an account, type "instagram brittwilll" or "tiktok brittwilll" in a google search bar and it comes right up. Right click and "open in new private window" to read the comments on each photo without an account. How her lifestyle is funded now: Josh and his family have seemed well-advised from before the draft, so I'm pretty sure there would have been some agreement signed before Britt moved to WNY with Josh in 2018 to avoid pal-imony and bad PR in the event of a breakup. I would expect she got a good chunk of $$$ in exchange for an NDA. This is pretty standard for wealthy men in the public eye and is neither proof nor disproof of "fire", just proof that Josh has better agents and financial advisors than Mario Williams (for example) did. I also hear her family is well-to-do, and she may be getting some "influencer" endorsements for some of the stuff she posts about. I'm neither affirming or denying your claims of inside knowledge but as proof of something, well, this isn't.

OK Josh has played differently in different games. His post-season performances in 2021 were masterpieces of "taking what is given". So were a number of his early games in 2022 - Rams, Titans, Chiefs. In fact, Josh's first half was to my eyes, markedly different than the 2nd half. I could say the same about the Packers game. I think two things are at play: 1) either Josh gets his bell rung a bit (he did come down hard on his head on one scramble) and reverts to his lifelong instincts or 2) Josh gets impatient with playing the game the defense is giving him, and gets overcome by the desire to Make A Big Play Since he's managed to contain himself in previous games, he needs to figure out what the difference is.

OK, now I got to say something to this. First of all, Mahomes early in his career through the Super Bowl loss to Tampa, would 1) take incredibly deep drops which got deeper when pressured 2) would, in fact, not stay calm in a pocket, but bail out and run. This was also evident during the AFC Championship loss to the Bengals in 2021. Containing Mahomes successfully from breaking out and running was also, in fact, a necessary and important part of the Bills Division round game plan which got them punts and FG and kept them in the game. And, by the way, in Week 8 of the 2021 season, the Chiefs were 4-4 - yes, there were problems with Mahomes and the passing offense. Staying in the pocket to throw was something Mahomes improved at last season, resulting in a 2nd Superbowl win - but let's not write as though that's who he's been as a QB from the start. Recency bias there. Second of all, while Brady would at times stand tall in the pocket, Brady spent his entire career in an offense designed off the short, quick pass with YAC. Fact: since 2018 when breakdowns of completed air yards vs yards after catch became available on free sites like pro-football reference, Brady had LOWER CAY than YAC all but 1 year (2020) - and in 2020, it was 4.6 air yards to 4.5 yards after catch. So you're talking about a totally different play design and reads, where the idea is to get the ball out quickly for a short completion. Most of his career, Brady knew the pressure wouldn't get to him in time because the ball would be long gone. Like it or not, that's a fundamentally different offensive play design than the deep-to-shallow reads designed into our offense that Josh is trying to buy time to execute. And yes, Josh stands in the pocket sometimes, too. So maybe chill with the "see the same frenetic pocket collapsing all around Brady and Mahomes but neither of those dudes panic like Josh". No, that's not quite what you've seen. I really think Orlovsky had the Word on OBD. He goes over why QB throw INT, and points out that Josh very well knows the safety is back there. He just has the "arm arrogance" to think he can get that throw in there anyway. And maybe he would, if he weren't being hit just after the ball was released. But being hit like that was part of the way the game was going against that fierce Jets DL. And yes, while I disagree with you that Josh can't see the safety in coverage (I think Orlovsky is correct: he can, he just gets in a mindset where he thinks he can make the throw anyway), you are correct that Josh has developed some bad habits that need to be altered.

Bottom line up front: I agree with your final para, but that's sort of a "cleanest dirty shirt". I don't think throwing to Kincaid would be outside the structure of the play, but I do think you're right about the read order, which to me says that the play design is not helping Josh. The thing is, the CB have seen that play before, and I believe Josh always goes to Davis (or the WR running that route, usually Davis) I've been thinking about this, and I believe part of the problem is the deep-shallow reads and the fact that the Bills have been "going to the well too often" on the same plays executed by the same personnel. I do think that many QB (Orlovsky for example) would take Kincaid, but I also think their reads would usually be designed shallow to deep. This is the sort of thing where some "looking off" would potentially help. But perhaps we really need better self-scouting and some play design shake up? Davis is a sloppy route runner who only occasionally runs a crisp, deceptive route. He's been a sloppy route runner for 3 years now, so if the plan for avoiding interceptions is to have Davis run a crisp, deceptive route - maybe that's a Bad Plan.

I don't normally look at the gameday threads these days But I popped into the second half thread to say: "Josh Allen is an Idiot. There. I said it".

He isn't throwing into double coverage, but the safety DB is in position to jump the route. Snce there's film of that being the route and Josh taking that throw with the rest of the routes being run on that play, I don't think it took much for the DB to abandon Kincaid like a stinky sock. Part of the problem may be play design, with reads designed to go deep to shallow. It needs to be (see coverage) (throw immediately to Kincaid)

Nah. We like our whipping boys here at TBD. That doesn’t work if you spread the blame roster-wide

That actually did occur to me - to ask “who was watching that Josh was trying to impress?” That went well (if so)

Agree with your first point. This is something I've been saying since....2018...and reaching a crescendo the last couple years. I think there may be more context to it than just 'being in shotgun lets Josh process or see the defense better'. Daboll wasn't too interested in trying to run, and he at least initially loved his reverses and jet sweeps and motions, many of which work better from shotgun. He was also trying to help Josh compensate for a poor OL and help Josh learn to make the reads. But Josh should be "grown up" now, so if the IOL is more solid, it would help keep defenses off balance to spend more time under center. I don't think Josh is having trouble seeing the defense or processing it. I think he's having trouble mentally accepting that he should take the short throw and dink and dunk vs. "make something happen" Peyton Manning FWIW loved to operate from shotgun and struggled when Kubiak tried to put him under center.

Josh has the arm, and has "gotten away with" that throw at times but 1) at this point, there's enough film of Josh trying to hit Davis there, that the safety feels very confident to jump that route 2) Josh's technique has to be good, and the throw has to be accurate, meaning he needs a fraction of a second more than he was getting.

In fact, it's such a PITA that I abandoned my all-22 addiction. I wrote NFL.com a Strongly Worded Letter explaining that they broke it and should fix it, but they never got back to me 😄 Dan Orlovsky on One Bills Live made the same point minus the names. "There was no completion there".

It doesn't have to be a lie. He could be mistaken about who said it, or missing some context or detail that totally changes the meaning, or added a word or phrase in his mind that wasn't there originally (people's memories do that).

Several different links/images upthread

OK, I think it is arguable and so do a number of other folks here. Josh had good games in 2022, including early wins over the Rams, Titans, Ravens, Steelers, and a solid solid game vs. the Chiefs plus a 6 game win streak on an injured throwing elbow. He had some miserable games in 2021, including Pitts home opener, loss to the Titans where we couldn't move the ball in the 2nd half, miserable loss to Jacksonville, first half of the eventual overtime loss to Tampa. It's nowhere near as clear cut as you make it seem. Daboll arguably has a less talented roster than the Bills, but any team that won 9 games last season and made the playoffs, then improved in the off season has more than 10% of the talent the top teams have. The point is, they played the Cowboys tough and lost by a single score 2x last season, the core of that team is back, and yet they got their asses whipped on Sunday. That's on coaching IMHO not entirely on roster talent. Plus we have all kinds of people fretting and fuming that we lost Hodgins to the Giants and traded them Basham for a bag of peanuts. Yeah, now you're just trolling.

I dunno about the app, but it's been up on the website for a while. It would be pretty stupid for the Bills to rely on an interview with an independent media member/former QB to "send Josh a message". I believe that any messages were sent directly from various coaches' mouths to Josh's ears. Interesting! Maybe Dorsey and/or Brady need to make Josh re-watch a tape where he was patient, took what the defense gave him, and moved the ball consistently. Instead of telling him "don't think of monkeys" tell him "do think of racoons" or the like.

How can you look around and read this forum and think Josh Allen is some kind of "sacred cow around here"? Seriously? Dan Orlovsky spelled it out very nicely and IMHO is worth the listen https://www.buffalobills.com/video/dan-orlovsky-analyzing-josh-allen-s-game-and-week-1-s-loss-to-the-jets The three INT were absolutely throws that should not have been made, and he isn't shy about laying it on a mindset of Josh's that feels like "I will make a completion where there is none to be had". He says he noted 7 plays where, in his words, Josh was "out of control"

Agree. And one of two things will happen. Either Bernard will get it together, and quickly - or Bernard will be benched for Kirksey. Having decided (apparently) that Dodson was not going to handle the pressure of being QB of the Defense with poise, the Bills pivoted to develop a Plan C.

With respect, I think that's a "can't go home again" situation. Dorsey was on the sidelines as QB coach. That's not the same as returning him to the sidelines as OC. Different role. I'm not saying it shouldn't be tried or didn't work, but it's not as though Dorsey the QB coach would be coming back to the sideline.

40-0 Baby.

I don't remember Daboll saying that at all. Any idea where/when? I know McDaniel said he did that for Tua.

Because Daboll had the Giants so ready to perform on Sunday?

That would likely be Mike Shula as interim OC if needed, not Joe Brady.