FireChans

We shall see. It’s not just WR. His dopey DL investments for the most part have been a disaster. The core 4 playmakers on the backend of the defense have been Hyde, Milano, Poyer, and White. They were all brought in prior to Beane’s GM tenure. Now you can argue that he kept them together and made their salaries work and that’s fair. But he wasn’t the driving force for their initial acquisition. In fact, his other acquisitions have been littered with mild to moderate hits, and misses. Edmunds was a massive disappointment based on draft status and investment. Ed is a top 10 pick that just had the best year of his career and is signed up long term, so I consider that a W. When you look at the roster during Beane’s tenure from when he got hired to today, he has done a good job at plugging in holes and rounding out the roster. The good to great talent infusion has not been there. If you want to compare the regime to the Chiefs, we have been getting dogwalked in drafts and acquisitions compared to them. McDuffie is an All-Pro, Elam is a healthy scratch. Karlaftis is a double digit sack guy, Rousseau is a better version of Shaq Lawson. Cody Ford vs their IOL investment. It goes on and on. I would honestly argue that we have a QB comparable to Mahomes (even though I think Mahomes is a bit better but it’s closer to splitting hairs.) Their talent acquisition has crushed us. Maybe Allen can be great enough to overcome it in the biggest spots but he hasn’t yet and expecting him to just figure it out with a team that is aging out of championship caliber because our best players were acquired 7 years ago is not fair to him. I’m harder on Allen than most, but I try to be fair. Allen’s competition isn’t 31 other QB’s it’s the other top 3-4. Beane’s competition isn’t 31 other teams, it’s the top 3 or 4. We need both of them be better imo, but Beane is the one that has WAY more ground to cover.

Pretty sure we read a different TBD over the last 20 years.

Talk about easy to please. He’s learned from his mistakes because he signed…. one WR after losing 2 starters to FA’s and trades? When Samuel is our starting boundary WR Week 1 and can’t get off the press, he will have learned from his mistakes? When someone gets banged up and Mack Hollins is running routes in the playoffs, he will have learned from his mistakes? I failed my social studies test because I didn’t study at all, but I opened the textbook once after that. I’m learning from my mistakes!

I don’t. I said I don’t know. Read it again.

I mean, I lean more towards Diggs being a problem, but that doesn’t mean that Josh is perfect.

It's also possible they are both divas. Diggs can be a malcontent, an emotionally labile time bomb, and Josh can also have his own share of problems (doesn't put in the work, huge ego, etc) that he is responsible for. We just don't know.

Teams with franchise QB’s. Jags on the edge of that IMO. I loved Lawrence in college but he’s been a disappointment so far.

I hear you. 2 years ago I probably agreed with you. Now, I’m not so sure. I wasn’t quick to crown Patty and Andy as the inheritors of the Pats Dynasty up until this last year. Now, I think they are. They are like a Hydra at this point. They trade away the greatest WR weapon in recent memory and win two SB’s with an offense held together with duct tape. Kelce looks like he’s slowing down and heading to retirement, then rips off a massive playoff run. They tear down and rebuild the OL, the defense in a blink of an eye. And they aren’t even perfect. Toney is a zero now. Skyy Moore a bust. They lose Mecole Hardman to FA, get him back when he predictably flames out, and he catches the game winning pass in the SB. I have no explanation and it sounds really crazy. But I do now think they are just head and shoulders above everyone, not in gamechanging talent alone. I could be wrong. Maybe they go 10 years without winning a ring again. I just don’t think so. And that’s not all Mahomes, it’s everything.

There’s an element of truth to this too. im not sure Josh needs to be around a bunch of yes men. I don’t think that’s healthy for him or his growth. Hard to know who was more in the wrong with that situation. I wanted to reach through my screen and shake Josh silly after throwing a pop fly to a double covered Harty. Happy when things are going good and a problem when things aren’t going good isn’t something that you want from a leader in the locker room

Brandon Beane decided to light another $3M on fire to get Stef Diggs out of town when we have like 1 WR on the roster has me between “good riddance” and “time to move on”

There we go, at least you finally addressed it. Only took me dunking on you to get you back in the game. QB’s can absolutely fluctuate up and down over their career. Totally agree. I also agree that it would probably be fair to say Mahomes had a slightly worse year in 2023 compared to the rest of his career. I would argue a QB could have a down year for many reasons. Coaching change. Loss of talent. Just not up to their usual standards for a million reasons. I don’t think any of that means they are a worse QB. There are a lot of mental elements to the game that doesn’t show up on the stat sheet. I think there’s a good chance Josh is a better QB next year in regards to his mastery of the game despite slumping in production compared to his career. That’s it.

Ding ding ding. tell him what he’s won, Johnny! You just got Papa Doc’d. Puppeteered.

We have seen lesser QB’s beat greater QB’s with more talent around them. Nick Foles beat Brady in the SB. He doesn’t beat Brady, imo, without a nasty Eagles team around him (even the defense made a game ending play after getting dog walked for most of the game). Two things can be true. You can beat a dynasty every once in a while. They aren’t invincible, they are just the closest thing to it in football. When Mahomes is 15-1 in the playoffs against QB’s not named Brady, it’s not a uniquely Bills problem, which is why folks say “we just keep losing to the best of the best,” because that’s mostly true. Brady stood in the way of a ton of very good QB’s having more success. Ben, Rivers, Brees, Ryan. It doesn’t mean they have no chance. It didn’t mean Brady never loses. Mahomes is the same way. Right now, the Bills, Ravens, Bengals, Texans and maybe the Jags are the only other teams with a chance vs the Chiefs. But I guarantee 15 years from now, Mahomes will have a winning playoff record vs all of them combined. Just like Brady does with all of his contemporaries. This is obvious, I think. This is very sad lol. Are you going to keep running from the Brady comment, or just wave the white flag because you know it kills your “argument” in its crib? Oh wait, no you’ll come back with “that’s irrelevant, we are not talking about Brady, you’re changing the subject.” Some folks are just too easy lol

Your whole picture is counting stats. I don’t think those tell the whole story. I will say it for a third time. If you believe that Tom Brady got almost twice as good at age 43 because his counting numbers were almost twice as good as the season prior, that’s your prerogative. I just think you’re completely wrong.

I just posted advanced stats that showed he was the most accurate of his career in 2023. You just don’t like them lol

It's not PFF. It's PFR. Like I said, if you are going to say Mahomes is worse because his numbers are worse, was Tom Brady regressing in 2019 and then suddenly got way better in 2020? It's just not a valid argument to me. If Josh's numbers take a sizable hit this season because he's throwing to plumbers and mailmen, I will not necessarily say he's regressing. It sounds like you will though.

The evidence is on the field. I have no way of demonstrating that besides telling you to watch Mahomes close his eyes and chuck it to Tyreek 10 yards behind the defenders 5 years ago vs watch Mahomes run the offense today. Stats have to be invoked to a certain degree? How much is the degree? If Josh’s production drops 25%, is that enough to say he’s a worse QB? Here’s some stats for you, if you’re so inclined. Mahomes bad throw % in 2023 was the best of his career. His on target throw % was the highest of his career. He had the highest rate of drops by his receiving group of his career. Josh’s on target throw % in 2023 was worse than 2020. His bad throw % was the best of his career. Mahomes bad throw % and on target % were both better than Josh’s in 2023 and 2020.

So if Josh’s production takes a dip this year because he has no WR’s to throw to, he’s a worse QB? I don’t agree with that.

Imo, he has gotten much better at playing within the system. When Mahomes first came on the scene, he was able to play outside of structure and make teams pay for giving him big plays down field. Around 2021, teams basically forced him to play in the system. They switched to majority deep shell coverage, and made him be patient (not dissimilar to what they have done with Josh). Mahomes initially struggled, culminating in getting CRUSHED by the Titans in October. Then, of course, they get rid of Hill, Kelce gets old and he has to pick his spots much more carefully. And he has.

Luckily, no one ever accused Buffalo of being a big city. Come on down young man!

Imo, they went for the Brady NE model after Allen ascended in 2020 and Gabe looked like he was the next big thing at WR in 2021. They went bargain bin hunting for bandaids around Allen because he has the ability to make chicken salad out of chicken *****, and tried to build up the defense. Honestly, it’s not the worst plan. If a couple of our DL guys had actually become the elite players we hoped they would, we may have been a SB team in the last 2 years. I do and did see the vision. Let Allen carry the offense, scramble around and make a couple monster plays that only he can make, and rely on an elite defense to finish the job. Hell, that’s basically how the Chiefs won this year. But, of course, the bandaids proved to be bandaids and the defensive players ended up being closer to JAGs than stars, and of course, Diggs became a problem. So now we have minimal offensive investments and our defensive investments were a waste. It’s time for a philosophy shift. Build up Allen and the O, and let McD earn his contract by coaching up some JAGs into a competent defense.

Window for trading for Davante is long gone.

Stafford hugely cut down his boneheaded INT’s without Megatron. Steph was on the field still. imo, you aren’t allowed to be mad at the “Allen needs Diggs to be great” take if you had the “let’s see how Mahomes does without Hill” take. Don’t make me search ur history @Beck Water

The most supportive thing we can do is support him to continue improving and working on his game to achieve the ultimate goal, isn’t it?

My point was not a statistical one. I asked if anyone thought he was “better as a passer,” earlier upthread compared to 2020. So I will ask you again. Do you think Josh Allen has gotten better as a passer since 2020? I think numbers can be very dependent on the talent level of your team. I could easily forsee a situation where Allen is a better QB in 2024 but it’s not reflected in his numbers because he no longer has the elite #1 WR he has had in seasons past. There are many facets of a QB’s game, and lots of things they can tighten up on over the course of their careers. Brady is a perfect example. Did he regress in 2019 and turn back into an elite player in 2020? Or was he the same guy with a complete overhaul in talent around him?