FireChans

Dorsey gets coffee in Cleveland, he doesn’t do anything a normal OC does. He’s Curt Modkins.

I legitimately do not understand bringing in the resume of Mike freaking Mularkey into this discussion lmao. Because he was a “coach of the year candidate” (isn’t every coach who doesn’t get fired before the end of the season a COTY candidate?) Brian Daboll isn’t a perfect coach. I won’t even go as far as to say he’s a very good HC. I will say that he made the playoffs and won a playoff game with a crappy QB DJ looking competent in his first HC season, because he did. I will say he won COTY, because he did. I will say he’s already the best Giants coach since Coughlin, because he is. You are welcome to ignore that or say it doesn’t matter or whatever. But it is what he has done as an HC. The Giants were approaching Bills drought level sadness after Eli’s wheels fell off. They were a who’s who of complete coaching incompetence. I feel very comfortable saying Daboll clears them all easy. Go ahead and tell me why Joe Judge is better lmao.

Nah. When Deebo was negotiating, Aiyuk hadn’t stepped up, and the end was near in regards to Jimmy G’s contract. Besides, a 3 year extension with $9M in savings if you cut the guy after year 2 is not really prohibitive at all. Jeudy has a cap hit of $4M this season with an extension. Aiyuk’s will be a little higher probably but not much. The cap hit this year is not the problem. They are choosing between losing Aiyuk for picks this year or keeping Aiyuk and being forced to move on from Deebo next year.

It’s the correct take. I have seen the argument that Deebo is more important to their offense than Aiyuk. Which may be true. The question is who will be more valuable to their offense two years from now. And the answer is clearly Aiyuk. This is a mistake by the Niners who will end up with an injured old Deebo and an offense with limited talent otherwise around a $40+M Brock Purdy.

Obviously. The connotation of drafting for need is drafting for IMMEDIATE need. Like drafting a CB in the first round because you need a starting CB RIGHT NOW. Drafting for 2-3 years down the road is generally considered not drafting for “need.” I know you know this. There’s no reason to try to muddy the waters semantically. Like I said, we don’t know what the Bills board was. What we do know is that we needed a DE going into the draft and we drafted a DE with our first pick of said draft, and he was a disappointment. It is certainly possible he was the best player left on their board when they picked. It’s also possible he wasn’t. Without intimate knowledge of the Bills board, we will never know for sure. Again, the connotation of BPA is taking the best player available when you pick. I believe Beane when he says he was their last first round grade (but I do acknowledge he could be lying), but I think it’s a safe assumption they traded up for him out of need. I have never seen a BPA-type strategy described as “trade up for the best player you have left on your board.” That’s just not how the strategy is described in these conversations. This is a strategy that I believe most teams follow for QB’s and for good reason, you can’t wait to get a guy when you don’t have a QB. Ultimately, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of Beane’s early rounds picks have strongly correlated with needs and a lot of his best picks have been in the later rounds and those rounds haven’t really correlated with needs at all. We have had so many 3rd round and later picks pan out at the NFL level. Part of that is obviously luck so it’s hard to make any definitive opinion, but I’m kinda leaning to a “Beane favors needs much more in rounds 1-2 than he does in later rounds,” take.

I don’t know how you can be very confident that these players were all BPA on the Bills board? There are obvious examples where you have to rule out silly needs like kicker or QB as the Bills. I just don’t know that I buy the Bills have gotten lucky that their BPA and their biggest off-season need have coincided with their high picks almost every draft. The corollary of BPA is the big A, which stands for available. I don’t think that a pick like Elam really counts. We made a targeted trade up, imo, because of need. And unfortunately, that proved to be a mistake.

it is Mahomes, which is why “we need Simmons to stop Mahomes” is a bad argument lol. Hyde and Poyer were nobodies. Hyde was a slot DB and Poyer was a 7th round pick FA. They both were signed quite cheaply at the time. You can add Dane Jackson and Benford to the list of unheralded players playing far over their skis under McD. Elam probably just sucks. It’s even more evidence to stop giving McD high round picks. Our best defensive players for the last 7 years are basically all non-first or second rounders except for Oliver and White when he was healthy. Douglas is gonna be gone next year. They won’t pay him. Mahomes has lost to the Broncos once since being drafted.

This is the ultimate post unintentionally demonstrating why drafting for need is a really bad strategy. CONSTANTLY playing catch up. We need more pass rush, we have to take AJE and Basham. We have to take more OL, get Cody Ford. We have to take a CB, get Elam.

Huh? why would you expect a 31 year old Simmons in 2024 to be faster than a 29 and 30 year old Hyde and Poyer? I already said that I think Simmons would be a plus add in 2024. I don’t think he would be the difference maker between getting carved up by Mahomes or not, because he’s going to be 31, still a free agent, and we’ve already been carved up with 2 younger All Pros at his position multiple times. We also did get younger and cheaper at CB. We have two rookie contracts in our top 4 and the only “old” dude is Douglas who is the 28th highest paid CB this season. Ultimately, the benefit of having a defensive coach like McD is that he shouldn’t require a ton of high level investments to make his defense perform at a high level. Some key positions, sure. But the reason I loved him as a coach was finding guys like Poyer and Hyde and basically completely changing their careers. Drafting Tre White as like the 5th CB off the board and turning him into an All-Pro. Getting NFL level contributions out of dudes like Levi Wallace. If we need to invest big time dollars and big time draft picks into McD’s defense to make it work, then what is he even good at?

I'm not calling Daboll great. I'm saying that if Brady is great with Josh and gets hired away, I wouldn't punish McD by firing him. I don't think McD gets ANOTHER OC to throw under the bus. That was the point. Anyway, you're hilariously wrong about Daboll. He won a playoff game for the Giants for the first time since 2011. It was also their first playoff appearance since 2016. He also won coach of the year by having DJ look competent for 17 games. He's a shitshow, huh? lmao. Pay attention to the GMen since Eli won a Superbowl. Talk about shitshows.

Dorsey sucked my dude. He had one pitch. The 2022 offense was more Jekyll and Hyde than anything we had seen under Daboll. In 2022, Josh had a passer rating of 87.9 in second halves. Across the SEASON. The man could not adjust for *****. He could not build plays and counters and counters to counters across the season. Dabs would set up the jet motion in week 3 and bring it back later in the season with a different target and make teams pay for trying to guessing what was coming. Dorsey was incapable of doing so. All you needed to do with Dorsey is figure out his pitch for the game, and you had our offense in a box that only Allen could break us out of.

Not to me. Joey boy is McD's last OC hire in my book unless he gets hired away. I don't think its fair to punish McD for hiring a great coordinator who we then lose, but I also don't think he gets another scapegoat. This is it if it fails (for me).

They were All-Pro in 2021. Poyer was first team AP and Hyde was second team AP. Mahomes had 447 total yards, 4 total TD's and a passer rating of 123.1 against them in the playoffs. The Chiefs scored 42. They were also very good in 2020. Mahomes had 382 yards, 3 total TD's and a passer rating of 127.6 against them in the playoffs. The Chiefs scored 38. Now, with all that being said, I will ask again. Are we operating under the impression that he didn't slice us up with expensive all-pro caliber safeties?

Are we operating under the impression that he didn’t slice us up with expensive all-pro caliber safeties? I think Simmons is a plus value in the safety room now, but not a long term answer.

It does. It will be interesting to see this offense. I don’t think Josh has reached his ultimate potential of winning presnap or even post snap yet. Making the “correct” read methodically is not a way I’d describe as his game, but again part of that is talent related. He was playing pitch and catch when Diggs and Beasley were elite and Dabs was designing the plays. He now has no elite target, but several with potential. We really need two of his young guys to step up significantly imo

Oh I know, just having a discussion! Pickens is really good imo but probably wouldn't be sent back or even Shanny's choice as a WR because of his headspace. Aiyuk is actually crazy because there were lots of whispers coming out that he was in Shanny's doghouse and on the trading block in 21 because he wouldn't buy in to run blocking. They stuck with him, he bought in a bit, and he blossomed and he's back on his way out. Things change fast. If I was the Browns, I would try to keep Cooper too. Go all in on making the Watson experiment work. If it's a bust (which it likely will be) jettison everybody for assets.

It makes a blockbuster trade for Aiyuk now kinda silly though from a team building perspective. The Browns make more sense as they are tied to Watson as the guy, even though he sucks. They kinda have to try to make it work and blow it all up in 26 if it doesn't. They don't, actually. You can get franchise QB's without tanking. What you do need to do is make a concerted, multi-year investment in acquiring a potential franchise QB. Which they refuse to do because they love winning 8-9 games and getting smoked in the WC round.

I guess my point is that Josh being 9th in 2020 and 3rd in 2022 matches up quite well with the complete loss of a slot receiving threat.

Sorry, do you mean this season or in general? If you look at Allen's air yards, in particular his IAY/A, he had the second highest of his career in 2022, when Dorsey the EPA merchant went for bigger plays and they had basically no slot threat. 2023 for IAY/A was still higher than 2020 and 2021, which again tracks with a great slot threat eating targets with Beasley whereas Shakir was basically not used for the first half of 2023. The bread and butter for the 2020/2021 teams was killing defenses with Diggs/Beasley. Diggs lived in the intermediate and occasional deep stuff and Beasley made teams pay short to intermediate while Davis/Brown/Sanders ran deeps and comebacks when Allen scrambled. I think the IAY/A will be low this season because of the talent, not vice versa, imo.

Here is the litmus test. If X former Bills won a Super Bowl, would I be happy for them? Diggs: no Tre White: yes. He’s a mercenary. Thank him for his service and bid adieu.

I find it odd MVS is one of the having fun out there guys. Seems like he has neither the contract or pedigree to dictate such behavior.

Geared this season or in general? not sure I agree with the second if so.

By Stephen Hauschka? It was.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t making you a target. I was calling the article stupid and jokingly saying it’s only purpose is to give you a chance to bump your thread to continue clown on the Browns for giving Watson that ridiculous bag. A poorly written post, I suppose. But the intention was not malicious in any way.

In fairness, he tried. The 19 OL was better than 18, but it would be hard to be worse. the 20 OL was our best OL in a while, and probably the best of Josh’s career here except for 23. It is not as simple as “overpay 5 good OL players.” It’s unaffordable. Beane’s philosophy for OL was being in like 8 guys on decent money, cut/trade who doesn’t stick. It was a money waster but they cobbled something together and they had dudes like Daryl Williams playing like borderline All-Pros or Spain who was a fine RG for cheap. It just didn’t last. but yes, I fear that Beane has skated because he drafted Josh. And that’s fine if that’s your argument. But the rest of the team is massively overrated.