CincyBillsFan

I agree. He's not getting separation and he had a couple of drops today. Is it that bigger and more physical DB's can knock him off his game? With Diggs playing average the Bills WR group is almost as bad as the Chiefs. As an aside this is the 3rd straight season where Diggs has faded at the end.

Did you watch the Ravens game?

And the Jets have dropped two Stroud INT's.

His point about no one mentioning all the strike outs when Judge was hitting all those HR's was spot on.

I didn't say that. Obviously the 2018 & 2019 Allen was a work in progress and far from the elite QB he is today. What I was responding to was your continued parroting of the false narrative that McD did a good job "developing" Allen. IMO the evidence from those two years, particularly 2018, was that Allen was thrown to the wolves. The fact is that McD had a "plan" for Allen's development that was poorly designed and executed (sound familiar). The plan involved bringing AJ McCarron in as the "vet" QB Allen could learn from. The problem was that no one told McCarron before he signed that was going to be his role and he wanted no part of it. Then the plan was to let Allen sit and learn while Peterman was named the starting QB. And how long did that last? It lasted until Peterman had set a new NFL record for consecutive offensive possessions without getting a 1st down in game 1. In what alternate universe are we going to call this a good plan?

The key to the role Dorsey played in this season's struggles revolves around whether or not Dorsey was free to create the strategic & tactical approach the Bills offense took. By this I mean: * Was Dorsey the one who suggested that they needed to change Allen's playing style? * Was Dorsey the one that lobbied to slow the offense down to better compliment the defensive effort? If these are all on Dorsey then he failed on his own. But if Dorsey was following the orders of McD here then all Dorsey failed at was in the execution of where McD wanted to take Allen and the offense. And that is very different from "Dorsey failed this season". I don't have the answer to these questions but this article along with other tidbits from McD over the last few months - his interview with the NFL Network is revealing - suggest that McD is the author of the strategy that failed to work for Allen and the offense. And this IMO, not the 9/11 foot in mouth quote, is the real problem with McD as the Bills head coach.

Allen was brought along slowly? You mean by not giving him very many first team reps in training camp and preseason in 2018 then naming him the starter in WEEK 2 after Petermann's epic, record setting fail in week 1? That was slow to you?

Well the 9/11 part appears to have been true as McD tried explaining it at his press conference today. My guess is that most of Dunn's reporting is true but lacking some context.

I think that was part of it but McD's comments and the NFL network interview would indicate it was a lot more then that. If in fact McD's trashing of Newton is to be believed then saving Allen from injury was the least of the reasons for doing what he did.

Oh I agree that McD may have been more complicit in the O's struggles and didn't leave all the tactical decisions to Dorsey. But check this out from Dunn and tell me it doesn't clash with how you're thinking McD wants Allen to be: There are two distinct versions of Josh Allen this 2023 season. One is fun. One takes off on the run — “The crowd loves it!” Al Michaels professes — and holds the football over the goal line while staring down a Tampa Bay Buccaneers cornerback. This version gets a Cincinnati Bengals safety to leave his feet with a pump fake, points, laughs and runs in for a TD. Flag ‘n fine, be damned. Meanwhile, Sean McDermott, spits on the turf and purses his lips. Fifteen yards lost on a kickoff likely means more to the Buffalo Bills head coach than any momentum gained by his backyard quarterback rediscovering himself. This version, at rain-slopped Philadelphia, rams through Reed Blankenship at the goal line, chucks the ball against the backstop and — flanked by teammates — swaggers right into the teeth of those trash-talking Eagles fans as if welcoming a dark-alley fight. The TD launched a tour de force for the quarterback: 420 total yards, four touchdowns. If Buffalonians could create the quarterback they’ve always desired in a lab, it’s exactly this. But then, there’s the other Allen. The pale, stupefied, knockoff version who trudges to the sideline after an interception vs. Denver with McDermott screaming in his ear. Unlike his boss, Allen does not come remotely close to assigning blame. Doesn’t embarrass receivers on national TV. Doesn’t snipe into earholes on the sidelines. Doesn’t kindly remind the public what McDermott said back in March when, in truth, it’s fully within his rights to alert your attention to these trainwreck comments. A smart coach does everything in his power to accentuate the first version of Allen. Realize you’ve been gifted a Marvel character at the most important position in sports and let him fly. Then, there’s McDermott sitting down with NFL Network last March. He made it abundantly clear that Allen needed to siphon these sorts of plays out of his game. “I don’t think that that’s a healthy way to play quarterback in this league,” said McDermott, in a video posted by the team. “It’s really undefeated that things are going to happen when you play that style, that brand of football. So, we’ve got to get that adjusted. It’s never going to go completely away but it has to get to where it’s workable. I don’t want to take his personality away from him as far as that goes. His signature. But there needs to be an adjustment in that style of play.” Manually warping the “style” of your most valuable commodity should’ve slotted in as the 2,789th item on the Bills’ offseason agenda. But this was no surprise. This is a head coach with a low Quarterback IQ. Start with the player who helped him become a head coach: Cam Newton. When the former No. 1 overall pick shapeshifted into molten lava on NFL defenses throughout the 2015 season — an MVP season, a 15-1 season — McDermott was the Carolina Panthers’ defensive coordinator. One of many individuals to directly benefit from Newton throwing for 3,837 yards, rushing for 636 and scoring 45 touchdowns in leading Carolina to the Super Bowl. In 2016, the Panthers went 6-10. In 2017, McDermott was named the 20th coach in Bills history. This did not stop McDermott from bashing Newton in staff meetings. One of the Bills assistants Go Long spoke to for this series said that McDermott’s “frame of reference” as a coach was watching Newton — in his mind — “ruin” the Panthers. “He used to come into offensive staff meetings,” this source said, “and just motherf--k Cam Newton.” Aside from the objective lunacy, this created… awkwardness.

I agree. There were two QB's from the 2018 draft who succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations and that was Lamar Jackson & Josh Allen. But it's obvious to anyone paying attention that if Allen had performed like Jackson in the playoffs he would be mercilessly attacked. Specifically: * if Allen was 1 - 3 in the playoffs and had played average to poorly in all 4 playoff games imagine the crap he would be getting. * If Allen had gotten injured and missed critical late season and playoff games imagine the crap he would be getting.

Yes but they were also both brilliant football coaches who were very innovative for their times. They also had an uncanny ability to spot NFL talent and develop it. How does McD stack up here?

That suggests to me that Bean and/or Pegula issued him instructions to do just that.

It does if you look at McD was using Dorsey to implement the offense that he thought best complimented his defense. It also makes sense if you look at it as McD wanting Allen to play differently as he thought that would compliment his defense best. What I'm saying is that when it came to the offense this season McD created the strategic vision and was relying on Dorsey to tactically execute that vision. And when it came to how Allen's game needed to evolve McD provided the strategic vision and left Dorsey to handle the tactical details. In McD's mind Dorsey failed and was the one at fault so he was fired. But IMO the real issue is that McD's strategic vision for the Bills offense and Allen was the failure. So who is responsible for the changes since Brady took over? I don't know. I suspect that Pegula stepped in and told McD to let Allen be Allen and Brady was to help him do this. We know that McD meets with Pegula after every game and it hardly could have escaped the notice of the Bills owner that Allen was playing the game differently then he had in previous seasons. Alternatively the McD supporters can say that McD made the decision to let Allen be Allen and that Brady was better then Dorsey. Fine but then the question becomes what took so long.

Did McD do this or did Pegula?

Don't forget the WR's coach who mysteriously left.

Reading some of the comments made by McD over the last 6 weeks made me think that Dorsey was not an independent OC in the way that DeBoll was. Dorsey was a tool of McD his purpose was to implement what McD wanted out of HIS offense and more importantly out of HIS QB. The placing of a governor on Allen's play which was the primary reason this offense struggled at times came from McD. And for this reason alone McD should be fired. Dorsey was only there to try to make McD's demands happen.

Damn this is prophetic: Those who’ve worked with the head coach on a day-to-day basis predicted all of this — months in advance — because they’ve seen how McDermott operates on a day-to-day basis. How tangibly nervous he gets in close games. How he has never truly appreciated his gift from the football gods: Josh Allen. How he’s quick to blame everyone but himself in defeat. That’s why one coach — in June — began by asking a simple question: “If they fail again this year? What does ownership do with Sean?” Three seconds later, he answered his own hypothetical. “Next year if they fail, you know who’ll be the first person he serves up? Ken Dorsey.” The coach wasn’t quite sure how McDermott would manage to put Dorsey’s head on a stick. After all, it’s the head coach’s beloved defense that has melted in four straight postseason losses. The honeymoon period with fans ended a long time ago — pointing a finger at his breadwinning quarterback, again, surely wouldn’t work. Yet even back in June, this assistant knew his old boss would find a way to deflect blame. “Watch,” he said, “if they sputter at all during this year, the narrative’s going to be the offense.”

There is one big difference, C.Biscuit97 is sensitive about Lamar & Cam ON A BUFFALO BILLS message board. At least we Allen defenders have the good taste & common sense to defend Allen on a Bills message board and not in a Ravens or Panthers board.

The horror that Bills fans on TWO BILLS DRIVE might defend Allen from unfair and unhinged attacks by a minority of Bills "fans". The horror!

And in the limited time Allen had to survey the field facing a zero blitz this is what Allen would have noticed first.

And all you have to do is look at the numbers that Brown & Beasley put up in 2019 & 2020 to see that Allen clearly elevates the performance of those around him.

Schadenfreude baby, schadenfreude!

We could have moved up 3 places and grabbed Hockinson at TE in 2019. That would have been a home run for Allen & a rebuilding offense. In 2022, I have to believe there were multiple high impact FA's on the offensive side of the ball that we could have pursued and landed for the money spent on Miller. Ditto the FA money spent on Defensive linemen versus offensive linemen during this period. It seems that the Bills spent more on higher end defensive line FA's then they did on offensive linemen. Beyond Morse in 2019 and McGovern in 2023 what high impact FA O line signings have the Bills made? And calling McGovern a high impact signing is stretching it. IMO since 2019 the Bills should have been committing 60% FA money & draft pick capitol to the offense and 40% to the defense. So your figure of 3 high draft capitol picks going to the offense and 5 to the defense is in fact a huge discrepancy on where the Bills should have been committing their draft capitol. Throw in the discrepancy in FA signings between the O and D and the Bills problems become very clear.

I hope I'm wrong in thinking this but as long as McD is coach the Bills will not get close to going to a SB. And no, making the playoffs is not getting close to going to a Super Bowl.