CincyBillsFan

Come on man the Bills went 13 - 3 and made it to the AFC Championship game. Allen was more then ready. And for the record, there was a lot of skepticism about Brown & Beasley among Bills fans and the national media, saying both WR's had seen better days.

Interesting. I agree that what we're seeing from the Bills on offense starting last year and intensifying this year is by design. And I could see the Bills being aware of this guys work. It's weird that on one hand there seems to be something off about the Bills offense particularly the passing game. Yet by almost every measure they're a top 5 offense. Are we just seeing the expected rough edges & growing pains associated with the Bills moving from one offensive approach to another? I don't know only time will tell.

Frankly this sounds like you have a personal beef with Allen. Who refers to him as the "all mighty Allen"? And Allen receives way more then his fair care of criticism on 2BD so what the hell are you talking about?

Again, what does "suck"mean to you? Because the way you throw the term around it means something very different to me. Here's what a QB whose performance sucks looks like to me: Fields: 9 - 17 - 45 yrds Taylor: 10 - 22 - 126 yards - 2 INT Ward: 10 - 26 - 108 yards - 1 INT Young: 18 - 35 - 154 yards - 1 lost fumble McCarthy: 11 - 21 - 158 yards - 2 INT - 1 lost fumble Flaco: 16 - 34 - 184 yards - 2 INT - 1 lost fumble. Show the Allen game this season where he has even come close to these games? And this is just a sample of the sucky QB play of 2025.

First, I am adverse to saying Allen sucked this season because it would be inaccurate. When you say someone "sucked" it means they were awful for the game. Last season Allen sucked against Houston - the only game you could claim he did. Two years ago Allen sucked against the Jets in the opener. But having seen what "sucked" looks like from a QB I can say that Allen has not sucked this season. Second, I give Allen the benefit of the doubt because he has been elite for the last 5 seasons. I'm not big on "what have you done for me lately". After all ingrates are among the worst kinds of people. Third, I don't break up games into Allen "sucked" in the first half but was great in the 2nd half. That is silly and in it's logical extreme you would be saying that Allen sucked on that pass but not on the next one. If you asked me abut Mahomes on Monday night I would say that he played great after struggling in the 1st half. So yea Allen struggled in the 1st half against Carolina but played very well in the 2nd half. My question to you is why are some of you so quick to characterize Allen s sucking when he struggles or under performs?

No one is saying that Davis was a superstar and there were no issues. The Bills were right to let him go and not pay him 13 million dollars per year. But the point is that the Bills have not replaced Davis's production at WR either in the draft or though FA signings.

And the highlights didn't include his 2 spectacular toe tap sideline catches against Indy in the playoff game. Of course we have no idea if that Gabe Davis is still available but we do know that his production from the last few years has NOT been replicated through the draft or by FA signings.

Again he hasn't sucked in any games he has under performed. There is a huge difference.

And what makes you so sure Bean & McD don't think we need guys that can make those types of catches? Against Atlanta on a 3rd & 10 early in a 7 - 7 game after the D had forced a 3 & out and the Bills were on their 2nd offensive possession Allen made a great throw under pressure to Shakir along the sideline for what should have been a 15 yard gain if he keeps his feet in bounds. Many NFL receivers would have completed that catch. Hell I just saw Luke McCaffrey do it on Monday night. My point isn't to trash Shakir it's just to point out that those types of catches are not his strong suit. Not having WR's that can routinely make those tough, toe tap catches 10 - 30 yards along the sideline downfield is a major issue. Both Davis & Diggs could make those catches as could Cooper.

I can sort of agree with this. Only time will tell.

I said with respect to the type of throws that Allen excels at. Maybe in the most generic sense our WR group isn't the worst, just a bottom 10 group. Our best WR is Shakir and he is not a good 15 - 30 yard yard receiver at the boundary. Moore is a gadget guy, Shavers is a blocking WR that would struggle to make the practice squad of many teams; Coleman has yet to step up and is not playing well by any metric and both Palmer & Samuel's have had availability issues. So excuse me if I'm struggling to see all the talent in the WR room. And I stand by my assertion that this is the worst WR group since 2018. But I do think that if Palmer can get and stay healthy he might upgrade the receivers quite a bit. I also haven't given up on Coleman who I would not be shocked turned things around and became very productive. But in the here and now we have a WR problem and I can't understand those that claim we don't.

The answer isn't going to the extreme in either direction. I like that we can run the ball. But the current WR group is so bad that it actually reduces the positive impact of the Bills improved running game. People have mentioned the Eagles but they can make defenses pay a big price with throws to Brown off play action when they key to much on Barcley. We need to be able to do the same. I saw a glimmer of this with Palmer against the Falcons but then he got hurt.

I think many of us are talking in parallel because we're using different definitions of "deep ball". I agree that Allen is not elite in throws over 40 yards which I define as a deep ball. But in the intermediate zone of 15 - 30 yard throws Allen is elite and these are the Allen throws that give defensive coordinators nightmares. And IMO it's pretty obvious that our current crop of WR's are the worst since Allen's rookie year on catching these kinds of throws.

I disagree. Cooper had an immediate positive impact on the Bills offense. The threat of now being able to do something in the passing game well that you could not do before will provide a big impact.

It's one thing to say Allen is "under performing" and another to say he's"sucked". To say Allen has sucked this season is to admit that you don't watch any other NFL games because if you did you would have a better understanding of what "sucks" really looks like.

It's not the answer - either short or long term. But it is an upgrade over what we have now. I would hope that they do not use the presence of Davis as an excuse not to pull the trigger on a trade to upgrade the WR room.

As long as it's not Rapp I'm cool.

When it comes to Allen who cares what this board thinks - there were a lot of bad takes on draft night and through Allen's first 2 seasons. It was apparent to the Bills that Allen was the guy at the end of his rookie season when they tried to upgrade the O in 2019. As others have noted though the strategic thrust of the Bills was building a Super Bowl Defense with the offense as an after thought. By the end of Allen's 2nd season the Bills were fully committed and went out and traded for Diggs. Allen paid them off with an all pro level season and a trip to the AFC championship game. It appears to me that the Pats are doing for Maye what the Bills should have dome for Allen.

I'm loving that Kincaid isn't even listed on the report and Milano was listed as FULL.

Over the last couple of seasons you could say the exact same thing about Mahomes for 3 - 4 game stretches as he looked "off". Of course like Allen, Mahomes was struggling with a very poor WR group.

I'm very confident that the best college QB's are having a much easier time adjusting to the NFL then their predecessors ever did. I've watched NFL football for 60 years and can't think of a time with more high quality young QB's. Hell, every year guys from college show up and tear the league a new one. IMO we are seeing the best and most productive QBing in the history of the NFL and it has a lot to do with the high quality training these guys are getting in youth & college football. Down here in Cincinnati the youth & high school football is very advanced. My grandson is a WR and his team mostly was in 3 & 4 wide out sets. They all had to look to the sideline to see what hand signals the offensive coordinator (yes they had an offensive coordinator in 7th grade) was using to call the play. They routinely moved back and forth from spread to tight formations based on the call. They employed motion on a 3rd of their plays. They played 11 games inducing 2 playoff games and 10 of those teams were heavy shotgun users.

AMEN and agree 100%.

Not today. Three anecdotal observations: 1) Down here in Cincy they're having a discussion about why Burrow must "learn" to play under center more. Evidently he wants to take the vast majority of the snaps from shotgun. 2) Watch a Saturday's worth of college football and tell me how many snaps are in shotgun versus under center. 3) My grandsons 7th grade team had their very good QB take about 95% of the snaps from the shotgun. Ditto for every team they played but one.

I'll answer you after I've seen the Thursday injury report. Kincaid going full all week and Palmer playing would have me feeling pretty good knowing that Spags is going to commit to shutting down Cook. On the other hand if Kincaid is limited all week and Palmer doesn't play I have a b feeling about the game.

Fair points about the health of Davis and Bean was 100% correct not to pay him 13 million dollars per year. At the same time and considering all of his short comings what Bills WR among Coleman, Moore, Palmer & Shavers has shown even a fraction of the big plays and production that Davis did over the course of a season? I hold out hope for Palmer but that's it.