CincyBillsFan

I agree with most of what you say here including that Watson is a great QB. But I would point out that the situations you highlight go a long way towards explaining Watson's great stats. He was often playing from behind in track meet type games. There is no doubt he faced way more prevent coverage then Allen did and his numbers reflect that.

I took your suggestion up and asked one Cleveland and five Cincinnati fans if they would rather have Allen or Watson. The Browns fan & four of the five Bengals fans said they would take Allen over Watson in a heart beat. The remaining Bengal's fan said it would be a toss up and he would be happy with either. I think we may be underestimating how much Allen has moved up among non-Bills fans based on his National TV performances starting last Thanksgiving against Dallas. A common theme among those I asked was that they felt like Watson had plateaued and Allen was still improving.

Maybe Watt is one of those BS artists who talks about a higher purpose like winning a Super Bowl but in the end it's all about the Benjamin's. A lot of us have had friends who wanted to change jobs for a better work/life balance. They sounded so high minded as they looked for a new job but then when the dust settled and they took that new job the work/life balance was worse but the money was a lot better. I doubt Watt can get the money AND the Super Bowl run. Or put another way, if Watt gets the money then a team is overpaying him.

If Watson really won't play for Houston this would be a very attractive offer IMO. Three 1st round picks and one of the best RB's in the NFL.

That just comes out in the wash of the give and take around a thread that compares Allen directly with another QB. By this I mean if someone claims that Watson is better then Allen some of the responses will look like we're tearing Watson down. It's the only way to make a rational point here. For example I believe that when people throw out Watson's stats for 2020 and claim they're better then Allen's (debatable) I will counter that a lot of Watson's numbers came from going up against prevent defenses. Is that tearing Watson down or just seeing the full picture? You also can't ignore the history here where some posters have brutally attacked Allen over every mistake and then ignored every thing he was improving at. This happened a lot over Allen's first two seasons. I guess some of us thought it would stop in light of Allen's fantastic 2020 season. But it hasn't. Bottom line for me is that I think Allen is a top 3 QB and Watson is a top 10 QB. Therefore it seems crazy to me to even suggest swapping Allen for Watson.

I plead guilty but my insecurity isn't based on Allen not being a top 3 NFL QB. I'm very confident that he is. My insecurity is based on the irrational attacks on Allen by a minority of Bills fans and a large part of the national sports media since before he was even drafted. And while these attacks have lessened in the face of Allen's exceptional performance this season they're still out there lurking just under the surface. You know things like posters arguing that they would trade Watson for Allen straight up. Why even debate such a thing? We should be thanking our lucky stars that Bean saw something in Allen a lot of the experts didn't. We now have our franchise QB who is on his way to being a perennial top 3 QB in the NFL for the next decade. We should finally get that elusive Super Bowl victory with Allen under center. It's only natural that those of us who kept an open mind about Allen and saw real progress under difficult circumstances would be sensitive to criticisms popping up - particularly after the year Allen & the Bills just had. So yea we tend to jump into these sort of threads to defend our QB. The cool thing is that Allen has made that real easy to do.

Well to be fair how many TD passes did Bills receivers drop in Allen's rookie year including a potential game winner against Miami that would have given Allen a 6 - 5 record? I think you underestimate just how bad the Bills 2018 offense was and that even as a raw rookie Allen won games. And the four win argument with Watson has merit if I'm a Jets or Jags fan. The fact is that unless you have talent around Watson he can still only get you so many wins. The same is true for Allen though I think Allen gets you a couple of more wins. Either way a bad team is still a bad team with or without Watson. Frankly I hope the Jets trade the farm for Watson. It makes the Bills life in the AFC much easier. It will stunt any chance of the Jets getting better within the division and send Houston back to a full blown rebuild. Now if Miami signs Watson that;s a different story.

The other thing Allen's rookie season demonstrated was that he has that special ability to make those around him better. This is a subtle but critical aspect of a truly elite QB. When you think about guys like Foster and the numbers they put up that year it's clear that Allen has this unique talent of lifting others up. And since his rookie year is it any surprise that Beasley & Diggs each had career years and Brown went over a thousand yards? Hell Lee Smith caught a couple of TD passes. Allen is better then Watson today and that's not a knock on Watson. Allen is a top 3 NFL QB and Watson is a top 10 QB.

The Bills should make Watt an offer they can afford. No bidding war please. If Watt is going after Money then we don't need him and can't afford him. If Watt is really after a chance to compete for the Super Bowl then he knows he's going to have to take less money then he's worth. Sell Watt on the idea that the Bills are one of the few teams with a legit chance to make and win a Super Bowl next year. If Watt seems interested get the players to make a hard sell. If he signs great if not move on as there is a lot of D talent available this off season.

And of course Aikman seemed oblivious to the fact that Allen was wearing a special harness that game because of the shoulder injury he suffered two weeks earlier.

I don't know about the rest of you but I've lost all patience in so called Bills fans like "Ricco". IMO these kinds of hypothetical situations prove that they're idiots. There's only one QB in the NFL I would even think of trading straight up for Allen and that's Mahomes. And even there I would likely stick with Allen. And in addition to your point on the weather Watson this year probably faced soft prevent defenses on almost half his snaps. His team trailed by two or more scores in the 2nd half frequently. The only games where Allen actually faced an extended period of prevent defense was against KC in the championship game. Even against TN the Bills fumble on the KO return robbed Allen of facing the Titans prevent. There are a small minority of dead enders who will never accept that Allen is a great QB. They predicted doom in 2018 and they will never admit that they were wrong. But they know they'll look like even bigger fools if they attack Allen's play straight on so they slink around in the shadows throwing out hypothetical nonsense like the Bills should consider trading Allen for Watson. Spot on! Allen went 5 - 6 as a rookie QB with a dumpster fire of an offense.

I take the opposite view of many here and IMO this is a big deal. I'm very surprised Mahomes was so careless in saying what he said. There are ways to say what he said that doesn't point the finger of blame at his O Line & WR group. And it starts with giving the Buccaneers credit for causing problems for both those units. For what it's worth on the Dan Patrick show Greg Cosell thought Mahomes comments about the WR's were very strange. He also noted that Mahomes got happy feet and was bailing on the pocket way to soon.

Good catch it was supposed to be 117 attempts.

I just posted this on another thread but it fits here to. I ran the numbers for Mahomes and Allen during this seasons playoff runs and they're interesting: QB playoff stats: Josh Allen Passing: 77 - 120 - 817 yards - 5 TD's - 1 INT - 64% completion Rushing: 25 - 145 - 1 TD Total Yards = 962 Total TD's = 6 Total TO's = 1 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Patric Mahomes Passing: 76 - 1117 - 850 yards - 4 TD's - 2 INT - 65% completion Rushing: 13 - 52 yards - 1 TD Total Yards = 902 Total TD's = 5 Total TO's = 2 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Seems to me this answers the question of this thread, no? Or am I missing something in posting these stats? Is it to simplistic?

About those QB playoff stats: Josh Allen Passing: 77 - 120 - 817 yards - 5 TD's - 1 INT - 64% completion Rushing: 25 - 145 - 1 TD Total Yards = 962 Total TD's = 6 Total TO's = 1 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Patric Mahomes: Passing: 76 - 1117 - 850 yards - 4 TD's - 2 INT - 65% completion Rushing: 13 - 52 yards - 1 TD Total Yards = 902 Total TD's = 5 Total TO's = 2 Playoff Record = 2 - 1 Looks about the same to me. In fact I would give Allen the edge. Am I missing something?

I'll never feel sorry for a guy whose team loses a Super Bowl. I didn't expect a pity party when the Bills were losing four in a row and I won't throw one now. In fact I long for those types of problems again! BTW I like Zerv, he was on the Broncos boards defending Allen a coupe of months ago.

This is a great point and observation. Yesterday both KC & TB committed to taking away the WR's and to a large extent they succeeded. TE's led both the Chiefs & Bucs in caches and receiving yards. Of the 4 TB TD's 3 were scored by a TE/RB. Allen and the Bills offense succeeded brilliantly for most of the year in spite of having a critical weakness at TE & RB. This indicates to me that if the Bills can bring their TE play and running game up to average they will have a great shot to win the Super Bowl next year. I think with a normal off season Knox will improve further and lift the TE play to at least average. That leaves RB as a glaring need IMO.

They were better then our RB's particularly CEH. And at TE Mahomes not only has the best TE's in Kelsy his TE is also one of the best offensive players at any position in the NFL. IMO this is only partly true. Our RB's don't often make tackler's miss or run them over. Yesterday Fournate and CEH both had a lot of yards after contact or when the blocking broke down.

Did anyone else notice how the WR's on both teams played only a minor role tonight? The leading receivers for both teams were TE's - Gronk & Kelsey. The leading total yards from scrimmage guy was a RB. IMO the fact the Bills won 15 games; had one of the top 3 offenses in the NFL and that Allen had an MVP caliber year without effective RB or TE play is amazing. It's clear what the Bills have to do - at least on offense.

The fact is that the refs are enforcing the rules like they were enforced the entire season and KC is rightly getting called. The real issue is why were the rules NOT enforced two weeks ago. As for Brady I stopped hating on the guy years ago and I'm certainly not going to hate on him when he plays for a team in another conference. The reality is we are watching something extraordinary - a 43 year old QB on his way to winning a Super Bowl MVP. Think about that for a moment.

I would switch Allen and Watson based on the fact that probably a third of Watson's passing yards/TD's came against prevent defenses. I wonder if that even enters the assessment of PFF but IMO it's a huge factor as we've all seen how many garbage time yards & TD's a QB can pile up down by three scores. In fact a close examination of Stafford would probably show that his career numbers also have benefited greatly by the Lions having a bad defense.

It's possible for multiple things to be true at the same time: * Mahomes is the best QB in the NFL. * Allen is closing the gap fast and may catch Mahomes next season. * The Chiefs have more talent then the Bills. * If the Chiefs continue to be the better team then even if Allen catches up to Mahomes KC will go further in the playoffs.

The idea that Allen was "meh" at Wyoming depends on you having only looked at his stats and not watched any Wyoming games. Years ago I stumbled on an Allen/Wyoming game late on Saturday night (it was 2 years before he declared for the NFL) and couldn't believe what I was seeing the WY QB do. Some of his throws and sack escapes defied logic to my football mind. I started making it a point to catch Allen's games after that night and the first thing you came to understand was that Allen's stats meant nothing. He was doing things that no other QB in college football was doing. And I watch a lot of college football. I remember thinking wouldn't it be nice if the Bills drafted this guy in the 4th round in a couple of years as an experiment. Little did I know. Needless to say I was thrilled when the Bills made him their pick. I wasn't sure if Allen would work out in the pros but I damn sure knew it would be entertaining.

So does this mean that the market would support 10 first round picks for Allen and 12 for Mahomes?

I refused to eat pizza with pineapple on it for years. I thought it was an unnatural act practiced by only the most primitive creatures. Then I tried a slice of ham + pineapple and it's now my second favorite topping on pizza.