WideNine

I was wrong on the decade long disparity on penalties assessed. Looked it up and although the Bills often are near the top in penalties assessed NE is usually around the middle. There are a few years where we had less, did not translate into a winning seasons for us. We did not get assessed a lot of penalties in 2017 and I think that was a factor in our first sniff of the post season in a while. Last year was pretty horrible, probably more to do with all the rookies that were forced into the line-up. They need to get better, and I would like to see just less penalties called during NFL games period. Apparently good teams overcome this, bad or struggling teams don't. For the record one of the worst penalty differentials i saw was NE sitting at -328 yards in 2014. The only team with more was Seattle with -396. They both went on to the SB that year with the Patriots winning so go figure.

Hardly, I hate NE but pretty much expect the Bills to get the majority of the flags at any given game regardless of opponent. Patriot players simply do not hold, they don't interfere with receivers, or use pick plays to free Edelman, they don't throw late hits, or lead with their helmets. The point is that they do all of these things, but with the exception of one year they have led the league in fewest penalties assessed. I think they could use some more officiating "love". When NE was actually assessed a pick during their game with KC, I almost choked on my drink...it is that rare. The thing that annoys me most, is that you are partially right...most years they would easily beat the Bills without the help of phantom calls or blatant non-calls. It is an extra kick to the sprinkler my Bills do not need. My favorite games to watch are those where I did not notice the refs, with minimal calls either way. Swallow the whistles and let them play. Regarding my Sabres - they need a freaking kick in the pants. Out there skating figure 8's in the neutral zone, waiting for that breakout play vs backchecking and forechecking. Wondering if Housley is just too nice.

The question should be "why call that penalty, at that time of the game on an interior lineman"? Why do nfl officials inject themselves into the game that way on what will almost always be a marginal call unless a QB is running around or a team is setting up a screen? I guess it is easier to just continue to ball-wash NE and their o-line that never holds. I certainly don't want to start not following my team, but the over-officiating is making the game harder to watch, and I am on the fence in regards to making holds reviewable... the game would move at a glacial pace. There is some holding on every play, it is the selective application of penalizing it that irritates me (see Jerry Hughes), and officials could just choose to flag the individuals or teams they want to call out. Reviews would take time and make those selective calls stand. I am thinking less is more. Perhaps if the NFL created a hard cap to reduce the number of non-reviewable flags (sans dangerous or unsportsmanlike plays) that can be thrown per game they would make the game more enjoyable for all by having less overall officiating. Similar concept to limiting challenge calls by coaches.

"Hall of Shame" maybe... he's a dirty player and I don't care if someone de-cleats him at the knees next season.

Not sure who Belicheck is, but Belichick is certainly a really good coach. These similar threads that have cropped up crack me up because they assume success can only stem from one individual. So it was always person A or person B not a combined effort. That, and people change over time. The book on Belichick from every coach that ever coached with him in his early years was that he was a sponge, so you have to ask yourself what did he take away from his time with Parcells too that has helped him be the successful coach he is today. I don't think it was spying on other team play calls, and deflating footballs, or paying off refs, but I am sure he took some legit skills away from those relationships. The propensity to twist the rules was always there for ol' Bill as I believe he was the first coach to have his players fall to the ground and feign injury to make substitutions during our Superbowl with the Giants. I have determined there is not too much he wont do to win, and that is on top of the fact that he is not too shabby at coming up with a good game plan regardless.

You never know, but they have been spanking the rest of the league pretty well too. If it comes up for a vote, the NFL has my vote to move them to the NFC West, we will take Arizona straight up.

So folks tuned out because there was not enough scoring? And here I thought it was because most everyone outside of Boston is sick of seeing NE in the post season and the Rams shafted what fan base they had by moving to LA? Go figure.

Dunno - I did not think it was going to be an offensive show down. Brady with his noodle arm, and how heavily Belichick had been running the ball towards the season's end. That, and the respect I have for Wade's defensive planning, had me thinking this was going to be a low-scoring defensive game - enough so, that I convinced myself not to watch it. I can get into a good defensive game, but not one where there is a 50% chance (or better) that NE hoists the Lombardi trophy at the end. I honestly did not think the Rams would only put 3 on the board, but I did think that Belichick would find a way to slow the game down a lot and make life miserable for Goff. I said it after the Chief's game and I will say it again to all those NFL fans that roast the Bills and Buffalo, "welcome to our world" noobs. And we get to go up against that coach twice a year.

I was making this argument a while back in regards to our post season drought...a good part of the organizational churn that has plagued AFC East teams has been the somewhat desperate and futile efforts to knock off NE. Owners are desperate and so are fans. It is what gets me so ticked off when NE does get the beneficial calls - they don't need the help as you have to play a solid game down to the wire to beat them. Mission #1 for the Bills is to beat NE... it is really that simple. Just having great players is not going to get it done either...McDermott and Daboll are going to have to step it up in the coaching and game planning dept.

Over the years I have come to the conclusion that it helps to have 2 game plans that you practice and keep on the back-burner for playing Belichick. If you go with the things that your team has used in the past he will have schemed a way to stop it. The 2nd game plan is the one you use after the half when he has figured out how to stop the first one. I did not watch this SB, but it sounds like Wade's D held the line pretty well till that one scoring drive and that the Rams threw a pick from the NE 4. Why is a team with Gurley on the roster having a shakey QB throwing the ball on the opponents 4 yard line...maybe i read the report wrong. There are times a team just has to line up and win the 1 on 1 matches.

I want the Bills to beat NE so badly that I can taste it, but I think success for us will come with balance across the board with our offensive weapons. Last year I did not feel that our RBs or TE's really contributed enough to this concept - some of that was the skill, some of that was the o-line. I think if we fix the o-line, and fix the TE position our offense will have more balance. I would like to see a nice outside receiving threat as well to compliment Foster, but I do not see any that I am sold on as day one guys. Funny clip from a great coach that always has that hung over look (I love his delusional line) :

I know that hindsight is 20/20, but in 2010 we picked C J Spiller in the 1st and Torrel Troup in the 2nd. NE picked Gronkowski in the 2nd. Would Gronk had made a better value in the 1st for the Bills? I am with you on the RB ranking, because I think good o-lines make average RB's look great. I am also against taking any of this year's WRs or TEs at the 9th pick, but if the Bills trade down I am fine with a lower 1st or early 2nd if the TE they target is the BPA. People seem ok with drafting from an average crop of WR's in the 1st yet struggle with the idea of grabbing from an above average crop of TE's. Probably has more to do with the fact that we have pressing o-line needs too that are weighing on draft value. I think there are plenty of solid RT's and a few Guards that will be available from the later 2nd through the 5th. Center I would like to see them fill with a vet if they do not break the bank on one - would have been sold on taking Biadasz early if he declared - he didn't, so have set my hopes on FA.

I began to think more about TE's in this draft when struggling to rank the WR's that were available. I don't think I am that alone this year - Bleacher Report which usually has some strong draft opinions only has N'Keal Harry going before TE's in the 1st... so we are not alone. They have Buffalo taking Bama's Jonah Williams which OBD may talk themselves into - not sure if he is a #9 talent, but could be splitting hairs as most reviews that do not focus on his height (a mere 6' 5") and arm length, cannot deny he has been productive. Not that every TE is going to be San Fran's Kittle, but at 1377 yards, he was just shy of Tyreek Hill's league leading yards. He also came out of that same Iowa program as Fant and Hockenson and is only in his 2nd year. If we could get close to that level of production out of a TE with some blocking too, that would be a pick well spent. Kittle went in the 5th round. He was ranked the fifth best tight end prospect in the draft by NFL analyst Mike Mayock, sixth best by NFL analyst Gil Brandt, and was ranked the eighth best tight end by NFLDraftScout.com. Last year he set NFL records so, that tells you a bit about how expert the experts are. Honestly, it is pretty tough this year to gauge 1st round talent. There are a few really outstanding players, they show up in big games and against good competition. Then you hit a log jam of prospects that all have potential upside. If the Bills stay at their 9th pick I see them taking one of the top defensive talents. If they trade down and pick up an extra 2nd, they could go in any direction with a later 1st round selection: great defensive prospect that fell, offensive lineman, WR, or standout TE (but as others have noted, TE's usually are not taken in the 1st). I pulled the 1st round TE notable list looks like it was since 2002 from NFL.com (below). I would add Ebron (2014) to the list because apparently Detroit does not know how to use a TE and Indy does as he had a pro-bowl year in his new system and O. J. Howard has been productive for Tampa. Gronk was a second rounder with 1st round value... if Hock gets through the first, he would be worth the second round look. Kittle's success has teams looking more closely at TE's coming out of that Iowa program so Fant and Hock will both go this year - just a matter of where. The Patriots dipped into the 1st twice and the 2nd round once for TE's this past decade, Iowa's program is run by a former Patriot's TE coach, so it is not inconceivable that they will do so again with their 1st or 2nd pick. One way to extend the noodle arm of Brady is to have someone like Hockenson as an outlet receiver. That being said, it has been a while since a notable TE has been taken in the 1st. As you look through draft sites now as opposed to a month ago most have a 1-2 round grade on Hockenson. If we miss on him I also like the kid from San Diego too Josh Oliver. He is a very fluid runner and has great balance, the book on him is that he has great hands and is a former basketball standout. Came from Allen's neck of the woods in California so perhaps they would get along on and off the field. Would have to work on his blocking, but I like his upside as a later round option. * O. J. Howard, Tampa Bay 1. Vernon Davis, 49ers (No. 6, 2006)2. Dallas Clark, Colts (No. 24, 2003)3. Heath Miller, Steelers (No. 30, 2005)4. Kellen Winslow, Browns (No. 6. 2004)5. Brandon Pettigrew, Lions (No. 20, 2009)6. Jeremy Shockey, Giants (No. 14, 2002)7. Dustin Keller, Jets (No. 30, 2008)8. Marcedes Lewis, Jaguars (No. 28, 2006)9. Jermaine Gresham, Bengals (No. 21, 2010)10. Daniel Graham, Patriots (No. 21, 2002)11. Greg Olsen, Bears (No. 31, 2007)12. Ben Watson, Patriots (No. 32, 2004)13. Jerramy Stevens, (No. 28, 2002)

I agree they need an upgrade at TE and Croom is not that guy, but I do think he can be coached up to fill that larger WR option they wanted from KB. If his combine numbers are accurate he has really good size and speed, comparable to KB's except faster. I thought he was making progress last year getting open and catching passes, he needs to get more polished with his route running, but there is no reason not to give it time if he is showing progress. If the Bills dig into this deep draft and pick up a bona fide TE, I am sure Croom will see less reps so it will sort itself out in regards to how much he can contribute.

Fair enough assessment, but as others noted they did get to a Superbowl, and were in the post season hunt in 2017 too. Others have noted too, that it is a bit of a small sample size. Just as much as I do not trust coaches that try to stand in the sun of phenomenal athletes and take most of the credit for their development, I also am skeptical of a coach being measured by the lack of progress of a single player. Players have physical ceilings, they also have processes they are capable of picking up and things they are not. I still like the hire and hope the he and Josh develop a great synergy. It is way to early to walk out on the ledge on any of these position coaching moves.

...and then you went there Weo. Croom does not fit our true TE needs, but could still be a useful part of the Bills offense, and I don't think his personal life, although awkward, is weighing on coaching decisions to play him or not. His measurables are almost identical to KB's, but he is faster and has better hands. He was the goat last year for trying to do too much on a play, but his heart was in the right place. His blocking is anywhere from horrifying to work-in-progress, but he can certainly line up as that big TE-sized WR hybrid that KB was supposed to be for the Bills. I felt like he was coming on as more of a receiving option for Allen towards the end of the year.

This is true for most businesses, and folks in hiring positions. Truth. I was simply saying it is an evident trend that the McBeane leans towards those they had worked with in Carolina, not passing judgment. Not a huge problem unless they are dismissing candidates with superior talent for others they simply know better. I don't think we have seen that yet. I honestly feel they are trying to build a good staff, rather than the Niagra Chapter of Club Carolina. As I mentioned before McDermott has not exactly been shy about flushing former colleagues when he feels they are not getting it done and looking elsewhere I like this hire.

Probably more to do with how well they are used in those offenses, but a good one can be something an offense can build around. Granted the 49ers have a lot of holes...man did that defense take a dive over the past few years, but you can bet that defenses will have to game plan around Kittle (if he stays healthy) for years to come.

Why yes it does. They have fired some of their Carolina connection hires too, so I don't think they get a pass in their new roles with the Bills.

Another Carolina connection....folks cannot deny the trend with decisions. That being said, I do like the hire... I think he will be solid in the role.

Respectfully disagree with the low assessment. Although our QB and o-line needs have been right up there. We focus almost too much on our smurf receiver core when a real TE would contribute to pass-pro, run-blocking, receiving mismatches downfield, and short yardage gains against press coverage. It is the versatility of the position that makes finding a quality TE a priority. Belichick knows this and that is why NE always has some great ones on the roster. I expect they will pick up another from this year's deep crop as well.

Wait....didn't we have Lonnie Johnson?

Not upset in the least, but do believe Tyrod was not facing the reality of the situation. That is, that his talents had been evaluated and found wanting rather than his skin color. Not that it should matter, but he was evaluated by two front office individuals who often refer to Cam Newton as the kind of ideal QB they were looking for talent-wise. Big, mobile, with large hands to grip the ball in adverse weather...like Allen. Cam was a project with a lot of upside coming out of college too. I am with you that folks should be able to take a deep breath and talk about this topic, but it is a charged one where folks tend to lose their calm. Should not be a surprise.

I find myself defending Gugny - ugh Look folks, this is not going to be resolved here - maybe the mods can move this to another forum as it is good to discuss. Does racism exist - of course it does, but it is not just white's who are racist - there are plenty of blacks and more races and cultures beyond our narrow USA focus. Work long enough with global companies and you can find disdain and stereotypes for other races, cultures, and religions all over the world. I was on the phone with a black manager back in November discussing some problems we were having getting to done on some things with our new team from India, and he literally said "monkey-see-monkey-do"....in reference to how coin-operated they tended to be. I damn-near dropped the phone. Not that I ever would, but had I said such a thing and had I been overheard I would have been unemployed that same day - yes, I am the dreaded white guy who can never have a clue - trust me, you don't know me, don't know where I grew up, how much money we had, or what skin color my friends were - so don't jump to any prejudice opinions right out of the gate (guarantee you would be wrong). There is a double-standard that I have run across with black folks in the States where they believe that they are somehow immune and exempt from the propensity to have pre-judgments (prejudices) born of fear and basic human nature when confronted with race, social, or religious groups that are different from them. I have worked enough, and visited India enough to know how poor folks are there. The remnants of their caste social system is alive and well, and women (although present) often are treated as if they do not exist in the meetings I chair - until I crush that attitude. That being said I have met many good folks that work very hard and I consider them friends, and I have met some who have lied and cheated and tried to "get over on me" just as much as other races - its a human thing apparently (imagine that). When the team from Bangalore that I am currently working with wanted to see pictures of my house with my Christmas lights up, they were floored that I have such a small family living in such a huge house (I don't live in a mansion). I can't speak for Gugny, but I don't have any hate for Tyrod, but his comments were inappropriate and are part of the problem here in the States and not part of the solution. Most of all they did not take into account the fact that his own limited performance may have been the factor for decision-makers at OBD moving on. It was small-minded, and a stereotype perpetuated by a victim-complex mentality that gets in the way of individuals looking in the mirror and asking themselves what they could do to be better at their chosen profession - whatever that is. It is much easier just to blame others and racism than being able to accept that perhaps others are better at playing a position in football than you are. He was hurt, maybe even setup by the reporter (got to be smarter in this day and age of 1st amendment suppression of everyone - because SURE people can solve things by NOT talking about them), but it is a stretch to think that the coaches and decision makers who had gone on the record for being proud of working with Cam Newton and wanting to find a QB with similar abilities wanted to move on because of the color of his skin. They saw a crop of QB's coming up in the draft and they felt that those prospects had a higher ceiling than Tyrod - no conspiracy, no race card, simply evaluating ability to take this team farther and needing the draft picks to make it happen. Ask yourself, would it have been racism if Cam Newton 2.0 was available last year and OBD moved up and took that person in the draft? They sort of did, as Josh Allen has a lot of traits that Cam had coming out, cannon of an arm, can move around, a bit raw at the position - he just isn't black. Not really the right forum for all this, but a good thing to discuss and air out. And although I do think I have seen the ceiling of Tyrod's abilities, I do think he is better than more than a few starting QB's in the league and hopefully he gets his shot with another franchise that needs to an upgrade to that position that they cannot address via draft.

This. What's the big deal? Who did not do this when they were a kid with every other friend you had? Odds are he and Darnold have done this a few times at Jordan's camp. Now if he was challenging him to a street car race or jumping bikes or doing x-game stunts... then I would be concerned.