JGMcD2

They traded a 1st and 3rd to move up in the 1st and got a 5th back as well. It didn’t set the franchise back. I’d say it was pretty reasonable to move up from 22 to 16. I don’t understand the issue with drafting the player with elite physical traits? I mean people routinely have been bashing Beane for not being aggressive enough and taking players with elite traits, but when he does it and it doesn’t work it was dumb to draft a player with elite traits? Which one do we want people? Because we can’t flip flop what we B word and moan about.

They have the same amount of repetitions. It’s just that White’s age 20 season was at LSU while Tremaine’s was in the NFL. I’m not really privy to the things that White went back to school to work on and what Tremaine has worked on, but I would venture to guess that White was able to focus on his deficiencies in a comfortable environment as a returning player at LSU while Edmunds was adjusting to being a professional player and working on his deficiencies. One guy had a little more on their plate. Edmunds was considered to have elite traits, but was still seen a development prospect with the ability to develop into an elite player. He fell to 16 for a reason, if he was closer to a finished product with his skill set he’s likely going higher, maybe Top 5 like White? I said pretty elite AND close to finished product for a reason. Both were important to the overall statement. It’s no longer worth discussing because you will absolutely never move off any of your points as you’ve made very clear before. It’s a waste of my time.

Agreed on the MLB point. With that being said, aren’t you the one who takes swipes at Beane because he doesn’t do a good enough job of finding elite players and drafting guys with elite traits like Metcalf? I feel like he made an attempt here and the results have been mixed. Any reason why it’s bad that he made an attempt at this type of player with elite traits? Also, it’s been like 24 hours and you still haven’t told me which playoff teams have a better cap situation than Buffalo. Waiting on that one because I’m genuinely curious.

Devin White is actually a few months older (semantics) and drafted a year later. He was also selected in the top 5 because he was considered a pretty elite and close to finished product. Funny enough, his first two seasons aren’t all that different than Tremaine’s.

It has nothing to do with being mature and hard working. That’s not the age argument. Players his age are experiencing these growing pains while still in college. He’s had to endure them while in the NFL. He was able to lean on his size and speed in college, he can’t do that in the pros. The big knocks on him coming out were that he was able to get away with a lot in college because he was genetically superior. The other was that he needed to put on more size to shed blocks. There’s been some growth but not a lot... is it completely out of the realm to believe he’s still growing and adjusting to his body at 22? I really don’t know how you can discount the fact that he’s spending formative years in the NFL while most do it in college. What do you think the result is if you dump a bunch of 20 year old players into the NFL? NFL coaches and players are looking up the round a guy was drafted in and making their decision to send a guy to the Pro Bowl because of that?

It’s simple. NFL coaches and players are absolute idiots, only reason he could have possibly been a Pro Bowl selection.

I’m saying he’s doing the learning and growing that most 20, 21 and 22 year old LBs are doing while they’re still playing CFB. Whether that’s an excuse for him or not is up to you. I looked a few months ago but if I remember correctly most of the top LBs coming out this year are the same age or older than Edmunds. If folks are going to criticize Beane for not taking enough swings for players with elite traits, you can’t complain when the players with elite traits that he does take don’t pan out right away. It’s the same old song and dance every day here. Yeah that’s a symptom of having zero pass rush. It’s been covered pretty extensively. CBs have a hard time running around with WR/TE for a long time, I guess LBs aren’t supposed to?

Repetition over his life time. Similar to the reason many used in order to defend Josh for not being an elite player in his first two seasons.

I vote we get rid of Edmunds and replace him with a linebacker from the 1980s. We will then be able to stop all the elite running offenses in the league like the Ravens, Colts, Patriots and Rams. Our 1980s LB won’t be able to defend against the pass, but that’s ok.

They’re likely going to say kicking a FG before the half and then on their first possession in the 2nd half after KC kicked a FG on the opening drive. McDermott even agrees he should have been more aggressive there, but we love to beat a dead horse here. People have also neglected to mention that he was aggressive from the jump. He went for it on 4th down on the opening drive at the KC 48.

I said next to nothing, because relatively inexpensive. It’s not quite nothing but it’s next to it. Original round tender and right of first refusal tender cost you the same amount, they operate identically if the player is a UDFA. The minimum salary a player who has 3 years of service time can make is $825K. We’re going to likely pay him 150% more. If you want a similar caliber player in FA you’re paying Josh Norman money or more... it’s next to nothing in comparison to that as well. If memory serves me properly, teams don’t hand out 1st and 2nd round tenders too often and teams generally don’t pursue players with any level of tender. I believe Kareem Hunt received a 2nd round tender last year and no team gave him an offer sheet. EDIT: Looked a little deeper and my old memory was wrong, some of the better players normally get a RD2 tender. Hunt, Feiler, Hilton did last year. Nobody matched. If that’s all it takes to ensure Wallace stays for relatively cheap, I’m all for the RD2 tender. Good call.

I’m actually dead serious lol FanGraphs does their crowdsourcing for MLB player contracts and they’re almost nearly spot on when it comes to the value the player ends up receiving. Fans as a whole are all over the place, but if you get enough opinions in one place it could be a useful tool.

I would say it depends on the tender we give him. Likely going to be original round with no compensation attached.

Going to cost next to nothing, it’s an easy decision to tender IMO. I like this concept a lot. I’ve honestly always thought that crowdsourcing like this COULD be a valuable tool for front offices to use in their decision making process.

It was a joke... taken from a wild take in another thread.4 Wins in 5 games was the requirement of one poster for any backup QB... my response was that another name for that is a “starting QB.” If you can go .500 with your back up QB in there you’re in good shape.

Which playoff teams currently have better cap situations than Buffalo? And if we’re going to look at how they rank in terms of decision making it has to be centered around the last 4 years since they took over, you can’t applaud the Chiefs for ending up with Kelce when it happened 5 years before Beane and McDermott were in Buffalo and weren’t presented the opportunity to select him or not, or sign X free agent. Strictly looking at their decision making the last 4 years compared to their peers.

Well then yes, I agree with you on almost everything. I wasn’t quite sure of your position on certain portions, that’s why I continued to ask for clarification.

Okay, so there are two criteria that need to be met in order for it to be a good deal. We all seem to be in agreement that Buffalo is good enough to make a run, that’s why the conversation started, people want Buffalo to make a move. Criteria A is satisfied. Then we move on the criteria B. Is any GM going to go out and intentionally acquire a downgrade when making a splash move? Generally if you’re making a move, you’re making the move because you believe the player is an upgrade. So what happens if it doesn’t work out and they turn out to not be the missing piece that everyone thought they were getting? This could happen for a variety of reasons too. So now with the benefit of hindsight you’ll judge the decision based on the circumstances that management has no control over? Seems loaded.

Well then how do you determine it’s a good move ? If you’re mortgaging the future and are going to end up missing the playoffs for a few years and don’t win the Super Bowl, what makes it a good move?

Well wouldn’t it be a bad move if it doesn’t accomplish the goal of winning the Super Bowl? If the entire reason for making a splashy move is to win a Super Bowl and they fall short while making that move, doesn’t it make that move a bad move?

If I correctly recall my negotiations classes in law school... you never really want to fleece someone or “pull their pants down” so to speak because it’s bad long term for your reputation in future negotiations. Idk maybe I’m dumb?

We’ve had this argument too many times, so I’m going to take a different approach. What GM or organization do it better than Beane/Buffalo when it comes to not making mistakes? or Which playoff organization has a better cap situation? It can’t just be pure cap space because they all have guys that are set to be FA. I would say Indianapolis is a logical place to start, but they don’t have a QB, so idk if the overall situation is “better.”

I mean I wouldn’t say that’s the case at all. The difference between missing the playoffs and making the playoffs is that when you make the playoffs you have a chance at winning it all. So it comes down to would you rather have one really good chance that’s not guaranteed or have numerous middling chances over time that also aren’t guaranteed. I don’t know the actual answer or what the data would say, but my gut says more chances means better shot. You throw out a dud with your “loaded team” in the divisional round and it’s all for nothing or that key player you trade for gets hurt Week 1 and then what? The reason I’m not for throwing it all in to match the Chiefs is because we’re on different timelines. It took them 8 years to get to this point they’re at now with the talent they have. I’m not trying to cheat the timeline for a 1 really good chance that still might not even cut it.

We agree then. He played himself out of becoming a backup down the stretch. I thought he was on a similar path to Bridgewater and Winston where they had to take deals as a backup QBs even though they’re really not. I was being sarcastic. It’s a joke from a bad take from another thread. I was advocating for Trubisky as the Bills backup back in October/November. Before he came back in to start and managed to make himself $10-$12M a year.

So you won’t complain if they take a shot, fall short and go back to being 7-9 to 9-7 for a few years? I mean I don’t necessarily agree with that stance in line 1. I guess I’m more conservative in nature and would rather have a chance each season and make a run than try and manufacture a chance and still have no guarantee. I would agree with you that this year isn’t the time to do that though, if they’re going to do it at all it would be best served to wait and see how next year plays out because then you start that clock on the window absolutely closing.