JGMcD2

Couldn’t have said it better myself. They often write a story because they’re required to... not because they’re passionate or knowledgeable on the subject. Then they move on and forget about it all. I have journalists friends, I’ve dated journalists, I’ve dated people in news. They all admit it when they’re off the record. They care more about the attention they get than anything else. I’m generalizing folks, not ALL journalists are like this... I’m speaking on the 20+ friends I have who are journalists, and their perception of the industry they work in.

Again.... Point being... Levy’s promise has nothing to do with the decision making process of McBeane. Why doesn’t that jump out to you? We can debate the Diggs trade sure... the great receivers in this draft are going between 8-15. We would’ve needed to move up to secure a Jeudy, Ruggs, Lamb (otherwise people like you would be calling for their heads) and it would’ve cost us something realistically close to what we gave up for Diggs. I’ll take the known quantity... now that our QB is in year 3. Diggs has a cost-controlled contract that undoubtedly provides surplus value when weighted against his production. Was the price a little steep? Sure. I won’t disagree but Diggs came with a long term contract and proven production. His style of play meshes well with Allen...

You’re missing the the point of my entire argument. The Buffalo Bills have undoubtedly made dumb moves, highlighted by the fact they went 20 years without being in the playoffs. That concept isn’t up for debate. Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT. Just because they work for the Bills now, does not mean that when they sign their contract on the dotted line they are hereby required to think and act and make moves akin to regimes of the past. AND YES. You can pull up dumb moves that they’re made, I’m sure of it. What fans don’t understand is that there are micro and macro “bad moves”. A micro bad move would be $1M depth signing that we hand out to compete for the backend of the roster... it’s not even a bad move... there are only so many spots. A REAL micro bad move would be trading back in the first because you don’t have enough trusted information to take a QB in your first year and you end up with an All-Pro corner and an extra 1st rounder you use to take your franchise QB the following year after making the playoffs in your first season with a roster expected to win 4 games. A macro bad move is drafting Zay Jones or trading a 3rd for Kelvin Benjamin. Those are things to be upset about... they flat out didn’t have anything positive come from them... but people here can’t differentiate. Just like they can’t recognize that because Tom Donahoe let Nate Clements walk doesn’t mean that Brandon Beane is going to let Tre White walk. This all started because you tried to compare their potential actions with Tre White to the losses of Nate Clements, Antoine Winfield and whoever else... guess what... it doesn’t matter what happened with those guys because McDermott/Beane were not pulling the strings then. It’s the simple - there is no pattern, the people making the decisions are different. The team may be the same, but the people are not.

Yes, Deshaun Watson was a College Football National Champion. You know what other quarterbacks were...? Matt Leinert (2004), Vince Young (2005), Matt Flynn (2007), AJ McCarron (2011), Cardale Jones (2015). Real top notch crew... all played for Buffalo at one point! The Browns, Bears (who took a QB other than Mahomes/Watson), Jaguars, Titans, Jets all needed a QB. That’s 5 teams that passed on those guys and 1 that not only chose a different QB but traded from pick #3 to pick #2 that night to ensure that they got a QB other than Mahomes/Watson. It can’t be a continuation of idiocy when the current regime, in its entirety wasn’t in place. I’m pretty sure we have 0 members of Football Operations from the draft and they were all let go when Beane came in... which was after the draft. You don’t let a lame duck GM make a franchise altering decision... McDermott had to operate off the information that Whaley’s scouts produced... not his scouts, not Beane’s scouts. Also, saying we desperately needed a QB is a stretch. Tyrod was a consistent albeit unspectacular QB that was at the helm when we broke the drought... that another team valued enough to give us a 3rd round pick when it was obvious we would cut him AND the San Diego Chargers are going to start this year.

If this leadership group doesn’t strike you as drastically different than everyone since Polian... I’m not sure what to tell you. The Mahomes and Watson debate is tired and old. Trubsisky was the #1 QB taken that year. 9 teams passed on Mahomes and 11 passed on Watson. There was no consensus on who was the best of the bunch... McDermott was without his GM... it would be a move of “Bills Old” to let the GM and his staff very clearly on their way out (Doug Whaley) to draft the most important position on the field.

I don’t understand why people try to draw comparisons and act like past regimes decisions are going to influence present and future regimes decisions. When ownership is the same, I’m more tolerant of the comparison, but the Pegula family has not owned the team for decades. Yes, under the Pegulas and McBeane we let Gilmore walk with no attempt of resigning him... but that was because the short term (and long term) plan was to clean up the salary cap situation. Don’t mean to seem like I’m blowing up on you... your post just caught my attention. This is a common analysis by a lot of people across multiple sports. Including sports writers. I just find it to be a waste of time to play that game when front offices and staff and personnel turn over as much as they do. There’s no real pattern.

Based on Beane’s wording, it sounds like Milano and Dawkins may actually share an agent... not just an agency. Which if that’s the case, is an advantage for us. It’s not an uncommon thing in sports for an agent to try and leverage one premier client’s deal with a team into a deal for a different player on the same team. If you follow what I’m saying? Basically Lagardere Unlimited wants to get as much as they can for Milano an Dawkins, while also factoring in whether those guys want to stay in Buffalo or not (Dawkins has made it clear he loves it). So Lagardere may make concessions across both deals in order to maximize the total value and fit their client’s needs. Also, it’s an advantage because Beane is a wizard.

UGH! I can still feel the feeling I had. I wasn’t born when we were good, I’ve only experienced bad. I remember sitting there in the first half so happy we were dominating and thought we had a chance to move on. Then my stomach began to sink later in the game. Face buried in my shirt, pure sickness in my stomach. I hate that feeling. The we had a shot in OT. wow. I don’t even have to watch for it to come back

This is exactly correct. At least from what I’m witnessing in professional baseball. It’s constant phone calls checking in on players. The past week or so has been seeing what resources players have... whether it is a home gym, access to private facility, a few dumbbells, a hill in their backyard, etc. Then our strength coaches are going into overdrive creating individual plans for each guy based on their situation and resources. Ultimately it falls on the player to be accountable, you nailed it.

You’re right... so Trout and Antetokounmpo spent formative years under the guidance of high-end professional sports franchises. Meanwhile Allen spent those years with Wyoming in the Mountain West. There is a reason that MLB teams love to draft high school kids early... so they can develop them under their guidance. Same goes for how European Soccer operates with their academies... except for the fact they bring kids in when they’re 6. If college basketball and football weren’t such cash cows... things would be different. Josh needs to be given time to develop. The resources are not even close to the same... pure talent really only carry you so far. The instruction is extremely important. I simply won’t accept the fact that because fans are impatient or don’t understand player development that Josh isn’t and can’t become staring NFL QB.

Is there a reason a guy can’t take a few years to develop? Other than the obvious lack of intelligence from fans or impatience? I mean seriously... guys are allowed to get better. Especially physical freaks like Josh who have never really been coached or played against tier one competition. Gianis Antetokoumpo was given time to develop with all of his physical gifts. Mike Trout was given time to develop and even struggled at the MLB level before he became the greatest player in the game. People just need to freaking chill out. Player development isn’t a finite process... there will always be improvement. Read up on it one time... it’s not a freaking video game where a guy randomly gains +3 overall after having a solid season. Stop being dumb. Everyone.

Fantastic break down! I did see mention of cutting Sweeney but I honestly can’t remember where... I read so many threads when I’m bored lol. Certain things stick in my mind haha

I think I commented on this in another thread about signing Greg Olsen. Everyone is clamoring to cut Croom/Sweeney/Kroft/Smith if we sign him... why? I’d rather just keep 5 TE for camp that have all played meaningful NFL snaps and see what happens in a competition. Your entire team can’t be filled with superstars but if you can get some veteran talent that’s had some success and sprinkle it everywhere it’s never a bad thing. We’ve got like 56 players on our roster right now, all of which were part of the organization this past season during our playoff run... so a bunch of guys who know what it takes to win. Only a handful of FA, most of which will be back for cheap + $90M to spend and 9(?) draft picks... why not just stockpile assets and see what happens?

It’s because Levi struggled for a stretch last season and most posters on this board aren’t ok with the ups and downs that occur week to week or season to season in the NFL. Player has to be an All-Pro consistently or else they’re worthless. It’s called being a fan and not having any ability to detach and assess, or evaluate talent.

I believe Bill James (father of Moneyball) said within the last year that you could essentially remove every player from Major League Baseball and replace them with semi-pro players and within 3 years nobody would know the difference. He got flamed for his statement because it’s pretty disrespectful but I think the point was, the game is the game, if you have equal talent playing on the same field you shouldn’t be able notice the difference. I think you just have to watch the XFL and accept it for what it is. If I’m an NFL executive or coach, I’m tuning in to every game, or even sending scouts. Not only to evaluate players, but to poach formations, play concepts, etc. As a fan I’m enjoying the alternative and getting to see some guys live out their dream. Many will never get another shot. There is a lot to be learned. EDIT: Here is the tweet. It was deleted by James after a lot of backlash from players. “If the players all retired tomorrow, we would replace them, the game would go on; in three years it would make no difference whatsoever. The players are NOT the game, any more than the beer vendors are.”

I don’t understand why everyone is freaking out. Individuals on this board need to understand how to judge interest in players individually. Greg Olsen would be a fine signing. He is not going to break the bank. He is not going to command a long term deal. He is not the only offensive addition we will make this off-season. I understand the collective desire to get younger. Yes, it’s good to have young, cheap and talented players littered across your roster. It’s also good to have veteran talent. There needs to be a mix. We are allowed to carry 90 players on our roster for the off-season... why not carry the best combination of 90 players we can find that fit our organization and schemes? Everyone wants to “Cut Smith” or “Cut Kroft” if we sign Olsen (some even if we don’t). My lord, we have about $80M to spend and I can assure you all $80M will not be spent... so why cut players to save money? We have plenty. Stack the damn depth chart with NFL players. If we sign Olsen our TE room for camp is: Olsen Knox Kroft Smith Sweeney Croom All 6 guys have played meaningful NFL snaps... that’s a good a thing to have those guys competing in camp.

Are you sure you don't want Peterson? He looked pretty darn good against us ?

I don’t disagree with you at all. It is a requirement of the job, he needs to follow the rule. There are ways for him to avoid public scrutiny. He could be much smarter with how he handles his marijuana habit. I’m just saying I’d rather a guy gets caught with a small stash of weed than is found dead from an OD on pain meds. Freddie Kitchens was dead set on using Hunt in the passing game and that was it. He made him pretty one dimensional. I was in Cleveland for his first game back against Buffalo. I asked my buddy who knows him if he was actually going to get the ball and he said Freddie had specifically installed a bunch of packages where Kareem would be targeted in the pass game. He was targeted 9 times that day and had 7 receptions with only 4 carries. It didn’t always shake out that way... but Freddie thought it would be smart to use him primarily as a pass catcher and teams probably caught on.

Obviously you didn’t fully read the article and don’t understand exactly what happened. He was not high when he was driving, nor was he smoking while driving. What you’re suggesting is akin to punishing someone for driving 70 on the way home from the liquor store with a case of Bud Light in the car.

He is such an idiot junky. Someone needs to tell him to be responsible and switch to heavily addictive pain meds like a real man.

Not at all lol. I think you type a lot like I do, trying to add tone and inflection to certain points, as if you were physically having a conversation... and sometimes when that is typed it can come across the wrong way... but I kind of picked up on that and really didn’t think twice about it! Yeah I guess what you’re saying when you treat it on a case by case basis, it is different. Like the this specific example here. It would all probably come down to the communication behinds the scenes as to why the organization is doing that and getting the coach to truly believe it/buy in. That’s the hard part is it is a case by case basis and we often don’t see the behind the scenes conversations. Which to your point of treating them equally or like players, it does take the emotion out of it... it’s a just a standard where this is how it is and weren’t not making special considerations. Plenty of advantages to that... there are just the disadvantages as well. Same with my theories, there are pros and cons.

Nope, you’re fine. I wasn’t taking it that way, and I hoping that I didn’t come across that way either. We’ve had some good discussions on here before and I respect your opinion and POV. Definitely understand where you’re coming from with the competitive aspect as well.

Here is an article detailing how Mike McCarthy often blocked coaches. It discusses that blocking coaches can causes issues so McCarthy often promotes and/or gives the assistant coach he blocked a raise. Which you stated above that’s not what you would do... you explicitly said “Bills and any other organization don’t owe them anything other than their contract ” you also referred to them as assets and property. http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-often-deny-assistants-permission-to-interview-with-other-teams-ks87jo8-185390861.html/ You also keep asserting that there are only 32 teams so teams have the upper hand. You’re also disregarding college programs that also tend to pay assistant coaches more than professional teams. There are what 254 Division I college football programs between FBS and FCS? Those salaries are publicly available and defensive line coaches are making $500K. There are options for these coaches if you start restricting them like you’re proposing.

I will have to research on Baltimore and Philadelphia blocking assistant coaches for coordinator positions before I speak further on that. If that is indeed the case, then have fun being one of few teams that does it, and then when it’s time for you to hire new staff you’re in trouble. Then it trickles over to trade negotiations for players. Then it’s an issue when you’re trying to get other owners onboard for your rule change proposals at the Owners meetings, etc. You’re trying to sell me on the fact that a reasonably prudent person is going to be told that Team X wants to interview them for a promotion to a coordinator position after they’ve worked for via countless hours as a position coach. They have the opportunity for more responsibility, a pay raise and they’re going to be one step closer to being a head coach. Then their teams tells them, we’re actually not going to let you pursue a pay raise, increased responsibility and we’re going to make it longer/harder for you to be a head coach. I’m supposed to believe that reasonably prudent person is going to say “Wow, I really mean a lot to this team!” ? It’s more likely that reasonably prudent person is going to say “ Wow, does this organization really have the best interests of me and my family in mind? Is this somewhere I want to continue to work, or recommend that my colleagues work in the future?”

Okay, but we’ve broken down the fundamental differences between the coaches and the players and it hasn’t dawned on you that they’re different groups that have to be handled differently? Coaches are blocked every year but blocking them in the manner you’re suggesting where it becomes precedent in your organization that you’re not going to let people takes interviews after December/early January... nobody is going to come. Head Coaches are typically hired in January and then have to begin filling out their staff in the coming weeks as you approach February, which is the exact timetable you specified that you don’t want your coaches leaving the organization. The interview structure of assistant coaches for head coaching positions is what slows the hiring cycle down. You’re totally disregarding important pieces of the equation.