SoTier

"You play the way you practice" -- Pop Warner, but what does one of the creators of modern football know, right?

I'm going to address all three of these posts in 1 of my own. First off, this isn't about 'suburbia' vs 'city'. It is about the stubborn insistence on the part of Buffalo's supposed leaders that every single venue/institution has to be crowded into downtown, preferably within sight of City Hall. Do you know why Paladino owns so much property in the Cobblestone District? He's been sitting on a lot of empty lots there (after he demo'd the existing buildings, some of them of historic significance) for 20 years because at one time his pal ex-Buffalo mayor Tony Masiello had the bright idea of moving the Buffalo Zoo to that area and Paladino started buying up properties in anticipation for that project before it was made public. When the scheme was made public, it was shot down by everyone, especially the Buffalo Zoological Society, as it should have been. Buffalo is more than just the downtown area. There are other sites in the city that are better suited for a new stadium, and they aren't that far from downtown because Buffalo's physical area is relatively small (< 43 square miles), primarily because cities in New York State haven't been able to annex their suburbs since about 1900. Some areas of the city aren't good sites for a stadium for a number of reasons, but primarily because they are already developed or are developing. These the areas west of Main Street to the city line which encompasses Allentown, the Delaware District, North Buffalo and Black Rock and the neighborhoods east of Main Street, west of the Kensington Expressway, north of Downtown north to UB South Campus is either part of the Medical Campus or residential areas, some of which are gentrifying because of the Medical Campus like the Fruit Belt. Two possibilities are in the area of the Central Terminal, where there's already rail and rail ROWs as well as lots of city owned property, which another poster suggested, and the area around Dingens/South Ogden Street I-190 exit which offers unused former warehouse facilities, rail, and interstate access. Both of these sites are in areas where land acquisition costs will be much less than in Downtown or Cobblestone, and infrastructure upgrades/reconfiguration would be easier (and therefore cheaper). The CT site is also close to the Broadway/Fillmore business district which includes the Broadway Market., an area certainly in need of redevelopment. If an urban football stadium is truly a development catalyst as advocates claim, then this site would be perfect to prove that. I'm with May Day 10 and other skeptics of football stadiums as development engines, but a stadium near the CT or Dingens/South Ogden Street would at least not disrupt already developing areas.

Look up the meaning of terrorism. Count up the number of mass shootings in the last 20 years committed by whites, blacks, Arabs, and Asians, and then repeat your claim. Sadly, you'll find out that most mass murderers are white males -- by a large margin. I am not talking about registered voters. I'm talking about politicians, our supposed leaders. The Republican Party has been playing on racism since Richard Nixon's "Southern Strategy" of the 1970s, and the current Republican President has repeatedly stoked racism on social media. Hatred is not mental illness, so don't stigmatize the mentally ill by lumping them with mass murders. These mass murderers aren't acting irrationally. Most plan their killing sprees over time, collecting their weapons, making their plans, writing their manifestos. They're filled with hatred towards people who have done nothing to them. As somebody said elsewhere, other countries have mental illness and social media, but they don't have anything like the incidence of random mass shootings that the US has.

Exactly this. When Thomas Jefferson, that great defender of "individual rights", repeatedly tried to silence his critics, especially the ones who mocked him for his relationship with Sally Hemmings. William Randolph Hearst and his cohorts fomented the hysteria that led to the Spanish American War.

Actually, they have not. There have been many incidents of mob violence throughout US history, much of it against people of color, and there have been incidents where 1 or 2 individuals have occasionally murdered a several people over a period of time, usually hours or days. The incidence of random mass shootings in public places, schools or workplaces by 1 or 2 individuals has increased significantly in the 21st century, and the number and severity of these incidents in the last decade has spiked, coinciding with the rise of domestic hate groups. How can you stop "nut cases"? How about NOT ENCOURAGING HATRED???? The El Paso murderer was a white supremacist who posted some kind of manifesto on a web site that attracts white supremacists/xenophobes. Why hasn't the POTUS, who has repeatedly stoked racism and xenophobia on Twitter, condemned white supremacy and xenophobia? Why haven't leading Republicans? Ivanka Trump is the only Republican who has had the "balls" to offend the racists that Trump and Republican Party have courted for years by condemning white supremacy. When the POTUS and a major political party give tacit approval to hatred of immigrants and people of color, it's not a far stretch for "nut cases" to decide to act on that hatred. Nonsense. These mass shootings aren't "crime". They are acts of terrorism, and most of them in the last few years have been committed by white supremacists.

Too many advocates of a downtown stadium dismiss how limiting downtown Buffalo's geography actually is when it comes to access. Downtown is butted up against Lake Erie, the Buffalo Harbor, and the Buffalo River on the west and south, which is why the development and population growth in the Buffalo area is -- and always has been -- to the north and east first. Westward development has always been nil. Outside of the Old First Ward neighborhoods right around the Harbor and the Buffalo River, southward development was late in coming since development in South Buffalo didn't real start until after 1900. Buffalo's geography is why Erie County's population is concentrated in the Northtowns and northern parts of the eastern suburbs. Whether by private vehicle, rail, bus or Uber, traffic from any stadium located in downtown Buffalo would be going primarily north or northeast. It would be the heavy concentration of traffic, especially after games, that would require significant infrastructure upgrades to the highways. Unfortunately, the closest limited access highway to a downtown stadium, I-190N, has limited possibilities for expansion because it runs along the Niagara River. I-190S which connects to the Thruway, runs through miles of established neighborhoods. Geographically, downtown is just about the worst site in Erie County to locate a new stadium. Cost-wise it will easily be the most expensive option for any new stadium because the cost of road expansion. Putting the stadium in downtown by the Inner Harbor or in the Cobblestone district only exacerbates the problems and increase the costs. I'm not sure if there are better sites in downtown, but there are better and cheaper sites within the city outside of downtown, some very close to downtown. Not every venue or destination in Buffalo needs to be located in downtown.

Much better. I think you left off Jones but he would obviously go into the unproven category. I personally would put Garoppolo in the unproven category since that's what he is despite going into his sixth or seventh year as a pro.

Putting Mahomes, Watson, Wentz and Goff in the same tier with 2nd year QBs who were unimpressive as rookies and rookies who have done nothing in the NFL cuts your credibility to zilch.

You have got Paladino absolutely nailed. I don't think he has ever risked a penny of his own to develop anything in Buffalo even when he was the supposed "lead developer". He's always made sure -- with the help of his cronies -- that his profit was always guaranteed by the taxpayers. Who is this "they" that have studied renovating NEF for years and declared it impossible. My guess it's individuals, groups, and businesses with vested interests in siting a stadium in downtown Buffalo, specifically in a place that will benefit them and not necessarily the city of Buffalo and certainly not city, county, and state taxpayers who will have to kick in at least hundreds of millions whether the stadium is renovated or built new and no matter where it's located. Unless the City of Buffalo and the Pegulas are putting up their own money, which is highly unlikely, what their goals are is irrelevant. Erie County and New York State will be the primary sources of public revenue, so their goals should be what's important, and those should include keeping the total cost of the stadium, including land and infrastructure, as reasonable as possible. Do not underestimate the importance of issues with land acquisition costs and neighborhood opposition to New York State, either. It was those two issues that sunk the Giants/Jests building their new stadium in NYC rather than NJ. IIRC, the bond issue for the NYC stadium on the West Side was killed off by the legislature. If 60-80k individuals attend a football, then the infrastructure has to be able to handle that number leaving the downtown, three or four times the max for the Sabres. It's easy to say "rail and some by bus routes/Uber" but the rail in Buffalo consists of a single line. Even if it's expanded into Amherst, there's still only 1 line. Buses and Uber will be hampered by the same issues that exist for private vehicles, no access at all westward and very limited access southward, and access in all directions very limited by narrow city streets, many of which are one-way. There's no way to get around the fact that a downtown stadium will require significantly more infrastructure improvement compared to a stadium at/near the current site in OP.

I would add that the cost for land acquisition and infrastructure improvements would make the cost of any downtown stadium significantly more than building on county owned property in OP near the current stadium.

There are numerous alternatives to putting a stadium in the city but not in downtown. A site near the CT would make running commuter trains to/from downtown very feasible. Land acquisition would probably not be a big issue as the city owns considerable property there. Another option might be near the South Ogden Street exit of I-190. There's rail to connect to downtown and the Thruway and Niagara Section are right there. The area is mostly warehouses, many of which are now longer used. Both would offer big savings in land acquisition and infrastructure costs than trying to wedge a stadium into downtown.

The center that the Jests didn't think was even good enough to be their backup? Why should we think he'd be better than Bodine or Groy? And the Jests are hoping that Ryan Kalil is better than what they have currently at center just like the Bills are hoping that Trent Murphy is better than Lawson, but the Jests are "desperate" and the Bills are not. Typical Bills fan logic. Other teams -- especially division rivals -- ALWAYS make stupid personnel moves but the Bills NEVER do. Got it.

Wasn't it some fish farmer who imported the Asian carp and his fish escaped during a flood or something like that?

So, I take it you're an off-the-grid, back-to-nature type ... except ya gotta have your laptop and internet ... FYI ... governments have been damming rivers and creeks for thousands of years to provide water for irrigation and power. It's part of the price we pay for no longer being nomadic hunter gatherers clad in animal skins and dying by the time we're forty.

He's a very talented QB who didn't have the best coaching early on so he continued to make the same mistakes over and over, but he still was a QB who could lead his team. He also had sketchy talent around him, especially on the OL. Last year with Reich was his first with a top notch HC and better protection, and he blossomed. Let's see how far he can go -- if his calf strain is simply that and not an Achilles injury

Yadda, yadda, yadda. I'm tired of the excuses fans make for the inexcusable mistakes made by McDermott and Beane because one appears to be clueless about offensive football and the other appears to be just clueless. Beane's admission only underscores his cluelessness because it misses the point that the mistake wasn't waiting for Anderson, it was naming Peterman starter in the first place, and then not bringing in another QB to replace him immediately. However the Kalil signing works out for the Jests, at least their HC and new GM were smart enough to realize that their current C isn't good enough and took steps to acquire what they hope is a better one before the start of the regular season. That's called being proactive.

If you are talking about the CBD, yes it is mostly empty because most buildings are filled with traditional 9-5, M-F type enterprises, but there are businesses there -- mostly restaurants, bars, gyms, theaters, etc. Most are small places, but that doesn't mean that they should be kicked to the curb in order to build a sports palace that's used maybe 30 times a year at best. Moreover, 'Downtown' is more than the CBD; Canalside and Erie Basin Marina are part of downtown, too, and the businesses there are packed on Sundays, especially in the summer and early fall. The buildings these businesses in are on the tax rolls; a city/county/state owned stadium wouldn't be. There are about 5-7k people living in the CBD and the outlying parts of downtown like Waterfront Village, Johnson Park, the Theatre District. These people would find their lives signifcantly impacted by crowds of 70k people filling their streets, parking illegally, etc The residents of the Marine Drive apartments and the Waterfront Village would find it difficult if not impossible to get in or out of their neighborhoods on game days/nights.

And sometimes you just f*** up. Pot meet kettle. The Bills begged an over-the-hill QB to un-retire for a month during the season because their HC and GM thought Nathan Peterman could be a starting NFL QB. Good teams make their own luck while bad teams (and their fans) make excuses. It's been well known since CTE first made the news a few years ago that there's apparently some kind of mulltiplier effect involving concussions -- the incidence of getting them and their severity both seem to increase as an individual has more. A play whose had 1 concussion is likely to have another one. A player who's had three is extremely likely to have more -- and for the effects to be more severe and long lasting. If a team isn't aware of this when a signing FA, then that's incompetence. If they're aware of it and still do it, it's betting that the 50-1 shot is gonna win the race. What's Bills' contingency plan at C if Morse can't play? Bodine? Groy? Long? Kalil suffered a serious neck injury in 2017. It's entirely possible that he wasn't fully recovered during the 2018. The Bills are counting on Trent Murphy being finally fully recovered from his knee injury after his lousy 2018 aren't they?

A renovated/rebuilt NEF or a new stadium near the current one on land already owned by the county would be infinitely cheaper than building a downtown stadium, especially in the Cobblestone District. The biggest savings would come from not having land acquisition and massive infrastructure improvement costs, but it would also be a savings in time since the stadium builders (county/state/Bills) would avoid litigation (especially eminent domain issues) and massive road building/reconfiguration. Whatever extra revenue that would come from siting the stadium downtown is more than balanced out by the higher costs as well as the loss of downtown land that could be developed into much more revenue generating business activity that benefits many more people than a football stadium. A downtown stadium would likely adversely affect many downtown businesses on game days because of traffic issues (including crowded subway cars). Finally, the Bills could limp along for a season playing games at the UB Stadium and/or at the Carrier Dome in Syracuse. The UB Stadium holds 25,000 and is configured for football -- the Chargers have been playing in a 25k soccer stadium for at least 2 seasons, so it can be done. The Bears played their home games in Champagne, Ill (135 miles) while Soldier Field was being rebuilt, and the Packers played some games in Milwaukee for a number of years, which is about 120 miles away.

Of course that's why Paladino wants to build the stadium in the Cobblestone District. It's the way he's operated for decades in Buffalo: buy old properties in/near downtown Buffalo cheap and wait for his pals in City Hall to decide to "redevelop" the area when he can sell them for significantly more than they're worth. One of the reasons why he went into politics several years ago was because the current Buffalo mayor, Byron Brown, isn't a Paladino crony, so his pipeline to inside City Hall information was cut off. Poloncarz isn't a Paladino crony, either. I think if the Pegulas want city/county/state money for a new stadium, they will have to make a deal with the politicians, none of whom who have the power, are fans of Paladino. If the Pegulas choose to build a stadium with private money, then they can do what they want. They best be careful if they deal with Paladino, though; honesty and integrity aren't his stock in trade.

Why not?

Don't worry. Be happy. Trust the process. McBeane has a plan. Billieve.

If you truly don't care about this list, why are you replying to this thread? And so vehemently claiming you don't?

It's an observation of Beane's style. In his two plus years as GM, he's repeatedly gambled on players coming off injuries or with injury histories. He's also traded up to draft "project players" in the first round. The high risk/high reward game that Beane's played hasn't had a lot of success so far. That could change but at this point, it's been all high risk without real success yet. If I had my way, Patrick Mahomes and Robert Woods would be Bills.

Why is it "crazy"? Beane and McDermott accomplished their goal of stripping the team of all its established talent and replacing it with JAGs and non-NFL talents plus a youngsters of varying quality. The Bills had one of the lowest, if not the lowest, actual player salary total for 2018. Ex-Bills Gilmore and Woods, both sent packing by the current regime in 2017, made the Top 100. You claim not to care but here you are claiming you don't care. Tell me another one. FTR, it's players not media hosts who vote on the Top 100 players but keep up your whining.