ChiGoose

How is it false? He was asked to return the documents but refused. For most of a year, he was on notice that he needed to return the documents but he would not do so. He then returned some documents and lied, saying it was all of them. That is basically the definition of obstruction.

For probably the millionth time: The difference between the two is that Trump obstructed law enforcement. And you can easily prove intent with Trump. So no. Given the current facts, I would expect an indictment for Trump but not for Biden. Literally the entirety of Part 2 of the Mueller report AND the obstruction of the documents investigation are examples of Trump obstructing an investigation and refusing to cooperate with authorities.

Sure. My point has always been that Biden having the documents is bad but unlike with Trump, I wouldn’t expect an indictment given the known facts.

Can you point to the cases where someone negligently had classified documents, cooperated with authorities when they realized it, and was prosecuted?

I see we have reached the Pepe Silvia stage. “Liberal” in that context almost certainly means liberalism in the sense of democracy (where countries such as China, Hungary, and Russia are illiberal). It clearly isn’t liberal as in conservative and liberal in the US domestic policy sense.

Good question for the special counsel but if I had to guess: in a box with other stuff. That’s generally how I’ve done it when I have moved.

Yeah, and it was wrong for him to have them. But in terms of legal consequences, he isn’t facing serious repercussions at this point because it appears to be a case of negligence and cooperation with law enforcement, not intentional with obstruction.

Ok, so I know this is absolutely pointless because Occam’s Razor is apparently illegal on this site, but what do we think is more likely given the known facts: 1. When packing up Biden’s things at the end of the Obama administration, classified documents were inadvertently included with his things. When this was discovered many years later, he notified authorities and kicked off a search of all of his stuff to see if there were more documents that needed to be turned over. 2. Biden intentionally took classified documents for nefarious reasons and then suddenly decided that he wanted to get in trouble for it, so he called up the authorities to confess. And instead of just handing everything over, he handed the documents over in batches to keep the story in the headlines and continue to hurt himself politically. The facts we have only support scenario 1 but it seems like most people here believe scenario 2 because it feels good to them. “Feelings over facts” should be the motto of PPP. BTW: It’s good that DoJ appointed a conservative special counsel to investigate Biden. If it comes out that this was all intentional, he should face consequences. It’s just that the current facts don’t support that conclusion.

Ah, I see. You don’t live in reality. My bad. Go on believing whatever garbage you’re being fed.

The poster is saying the Trump cooperates with law enforcement. I can’t think of a single instance in which this is true. We are talking about a guy who obtained much of his wealth through fraud, avoided taxes by lying, routinely flouts the law, commits obstruction as such a normal part of his day that literally half the Mueller report was about him obstructing Justice, and refused to return documents he shouldn’t have, even lying about them to law enforcement. At this point, it’s more likely that Trump is three kids in a trench coat than it is that he cooperates with law enforcement.

Lol. Are you high?

I have to admit that I respect PPP’s commitment to being aggressively and publicly wrong. Simple concepts such as whether or not someone is cooperating with law enforcement are impossible for people to grasp as they consume their information from the garbage heaps of the internet. Good job, everyone!

Bills Mafia’s Home Away From Home This is a great short video on the two big Bills bars here in Chicago. When I first moved here, I went to Lincoln Station, which is a solid sports bar that caters to Bills fans. But since then, I’m all about Delilah’s, which is as close as you can get to a Bills tailgate outside of Orchard Park (yes, I have memorized the third quarter song). There are great Bills backers bars all over the world, but I’m happy to see that those in Chicago are getting some love.

IRS: Sorry, but It’s Just Easier and Cheaper to Audit the Poor Without proper funding, the IRS cannot go after the big cheaters. So average Americans are footing the bill for the rich who don’t pay their taxes. It’s far easier to audit W-2 wage earners than the complicated incomes and assets of the ultra wealthy. The GOP knows this and that’s why they want to defund the IRS: to keep scrutiny on you and I, and off their donors.

I’m saying there’s a lot we still don’t know. If they knew they had the documents all along, why turn them over now? They could have just kept them and nobody would have known. Instead of wanton speculation, I’d rather there just be an investigation that gets to the bottom of it. If they truly didn’t know and turned them over once they found them, then they should get nothing more than a stern talking to. If they did know and tried to cover it up all this time, there should be more dire consequences. In any event, we definitely need better controls around sensitive documents.

Could be. Or they could have been in a box. If they discovered them during the previous move and did nothing, they should be indicted.

It’s still the same thing. People shouldn’t be able to walk away with government property, especially sensitive documents. Those that do so intentionally or refuse to return them when they find them should be investigated. It’s really not that hard.

Somethings definitely not working correctly if people keep walking off the job with government property.

Good news here in Illinois Speaker Welch (D-Hillside) said the legislation bans the sale, delivery, and purchase of assault-style weapons and high-capacity magazines in Illinois. Long guns will be limited to 10 rounds per magazine and handguns cannot have more than 15 rounds. "This legislation includes a comprehensive, detailed, and updated list of assault weapons subject to the ban," Welch said. The bill also bans the possession and use of rapid-fire devices that increase the firing rate of semiautomatic weapons. While the focus on assault style weapons misses the biggest drivers of gun deaths, this is a step in the right direction.

Yes, Biden is guilty of having government documents he shouldn’t have. However, simple possession is rarely prosecuted if people cooperate with law enforcement since their main goal is to get the property back, so they want to encourage cooperation. At this point, that’s the difference between the situations: when Biden’s team found the documents, they immediately notified authorities and turned them over while Trump obstructed law enforcement. Biden’s case is being managed by a Trump-appointed US Attorney so we’ll see if more evidence comes out about how he handled this. If it was simply packing up a bunch of stuff and not realizing he had the docs, there won’t be a punishment. If it was something more nefarious, he could be in legal jeopardy.

Because it doesn’t matter if the documents were declassified or not, they were government property he wasn’t supposed to possess.

Basically every GOP policy falls into one of three buckets: 1. Transfer the nation’s wealth into the hands of the wealthy 2. Gain and/or maintain control at all costs to facilitate #1 3. Create emotional reactions (usually anger) in the base so they come out and vote to accomplish #2, which facilitates #1. Its also why basically every policy fails a simple root cause evaluation The idea that supporting the GOP helps the average American is a fantasy.

I don’t think there are any rights for a Vice President or President to have government documents after they leave office. Assigning the Biden case to a Trump-appointed US Attorney was the right call here.

Probably a combination of both. The current strain is much more infectious than the original. Some things that would have worked in the past aren’t as effective against this version

Actually obstruction generally would be the biggest problem. Possessing the documents illegally is rarely prosecuted if people cooperate with authorities.