ChiGoose

Under the Presidential Records Act, any presidential documents become property of the archives the moment the president’s time in office ends. This is true regardless of whether or not the documents are classified. So even if a regular citizen may not have any prohibitions against learning the info contained in the documents, possession of the documents themselves without agreement from the archives would be prohibited.

Unlikely since Biden is cooperating with law enforcement instead of obstructing them and lying to them.

Just to reiterate: whether the documents were classified or not is legally irrelevant here. The second someone is no longer president, they lose the right to possess any presidential documents, classified or not.

Hey, let me know when Biden’s team signs an affidavit falsely claiming they returned all the documents when they didn’t.

You do not have a right to physically possess any government documents you want, whether they are classified or not. Are you arguing that you can just go into a government building and take any documents you want so long as they aren’t classified? None of the statutes that Trump is being investigated for violating require the documents to be classified. I don’t think they even mention classification at all. The fact that some were classified underscores the potential danger of mishandling of government documents but is not very relevant to the legal jeopardy Trump is in.

Whether or not they were classified is completely irrelevant. Neither person has the right to posses them, classified or not. What is the same: Trump and Biden had documents they had no right to What is different: When Biden’s team discovered the documents, they notified the government and handed them over. Trump refused to return the documents even when told he had no right to possess them. If Trump had handed all of the documents back, he wouldn’t be in trouble. If it’s discovered that Biden knew he had the documents he shouldn’t have and refused to return them, he should be in trouble. This really isn’t that hard, folks.

No, it’s different when the facts are different. If Biden did the same thing as Trump, then he should be indicted. But he didn’t, so the cases aren’t the same no matter how much Trumpers pretend they are.

Looking at the simplest explanation given the known facts: bad Rampant speculation based on wishcasting: good Got it

This post sponsored by big business, big pharma, the Kochs, Amazon, etc. Starve the IRS so it can only go after the working class. The real problem in this country is that the rich don’t have enough money while the poor have too much!

(Citation needed)

They can, and they should.

Not only that, but a lot of the headcount is to replace people who are leaving and not all of it is for agents either. But you can always bet on the GOP helping the rich and tax cheats while selling it to a willing public as somehow benefiting them when it actually hurts them. They’ll eat it up anyway.

It was primarily about replacing retiring workers and auditing the rich. That’s why the GOP hates it. They want the IRS going after the average American while leaving the donor class untouched.

Cooperating with authorities Not cooperating with authorities Trumpers: these are the same thing

The facts as we have them point to this not being intentional. It’s also being investigated by law enforcement so if the facts change, it might change the most likely story. If it is discovered that Biden knew he had documents illegally and did not immediately turn them over, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But that is not the most likely scenario given what we know at this point. Honestly, at this point, I don’t think the facts will end up mattering at all. MAGA is just going to believe whatever feels good because their feelings don’t care about the facts.

I just follow the facts. If Biden did what Trump did, then he should be indicted when he leaves office. But there’s no evidence he did.

Except it would be exceedingly easy to prove intent with Trump since he refused to return the documents when told to and then lied about returning them all when he actually didn’t. A jury would have no problem inferring intent there. The documents were in storage and only discovered because the office was being closed so everything needed to be removed. I sincerely doubt that presidents and VPs routinely intentionally keep documents they’re not supposed to have. There’s little reason for it since they can access their docs through NARA. It seems more likely that the controls around these types of documents need fixing. It’s a problem for Trump because he refused to return them. If he had turned them all over when NARA told him to, he’d have no problem with the law. Even if the tinfoil hat conspiracies about the deep state BS were true and he got charged anyway, he’d skate easily at trial (if it even went that far). As always, Trump’s problem is Trump himself.

Intent. You’re missing intent.

I literally laid out the fact patterns to answer your question. If you just want to ignore it because it’s inconvenient to you, I guess that’s just on you.

Person A: 1. Not a government employee 2. Does not have security clearance 3. Possesses government documents 4. Discovers said documents and notifies authorities 5. Returns documents immediately Person B: 1. Not a government employee 2. Does not have security clearance 3. Possesses government documents 4. Is told to return documents but refuses 5. Returns some documents 6. Lies and says all documents were returned when they weren’t 7. Continues to refuse to cooperate Person C : 1. Government employee 2. Has security clearance 3. Possesses government documents they are entitled to 4. Improperly stores documents 5. Turns over storage device when asked and ceases improper storage I don’t think there’s a case out there that matches Person A in which there as an indictment, not to mention a conviction. Generally, if you discover documents you’re not supposed to have and immediately turn them over, they don’t charge you with anything because they want to encourage people in those situations to cooperate. Person B gets indicted. There are cases where the defendant even had the proper security clearance but was still indicted due to their behavior and lack of cooperation once the documents were discovered. Person C is an edge case. You could probably put together a prima facie case but you’re almost assuredly going to lose at trial so it’s really not worth the effort. Negligent possession is almost never prosecuted. Possessing documents you’re not supposed to is bad, especially if they are classified. But people aren’t generally prosecuted unless they either took the documents knowing they weren’t supposed to have them or refuse to cooperate with authorities in returning the documents. Hope that helps!

Just read the actual facts instead of jumping to ridiculous conclusions. A feat basically impossible for members of this board.

Just came here expecting to see the usual complete lack of understanding of facts, how things work, and what the law is and I was not disappointed. Don’t ever change, PPP.

I’m not sure I understand your point. Are you saying the US currently is in default?

So what are the odds that we default on our debt in the next two years? 90%? More?

Imagine if we actually hit a recession and need Congress to act swiftly and smartly to save the economy. We’d be screwed