Shaw66

Other than to say I definitely would not trade the three for the one, I haven't posted here. Others probably have said what I'm going to say. First, if the question is whether I'd trade those three guys for one of the ten best quarterbacks of all time at the beginning of his career, the answer is yes, I'd make that trade. QBs are too important, and having an all-time great as your QB is priceless. The problem is two-fold. One part of the problem is whether Mahomes actually IS an all-time great or just had a season that made him look that way. The other part of the problem is exactly how great Allen actually will turn out to be. If Allen becomes an all-time great, it wouldn't make sense to trade Edmunds and White just to be able to swap all-time greats. As for the Mahomes problem, I don't think he's an all-time great. He IS amazing, I'll grant that. He's creative and he's athletic. He understand and he executes the offense. But I think he's the product of the environment he's in; that is, he's playing for one of the very few coaching geniuses out there, a guy who given the tools can attack defenses in remarkable and effective ways. And Reid has the tools, not just at QB, but at wideout and at tight end and on the offensive line. One reason their offense has slowed down, I believe, is that they lost their running back. He was an important part of the package. I said early in this past season something that someone else said in this thread - if you'd given Allen a year on the bench in Kansas City and named Allen the starter for 2018, people around the country would be talking about Allen instead of Mahomes. I really believe that. Mahomes looks to be a little more intuitive at QB and a little more creative, but Allen is better in and the pocket and is a better runner. Allen would have had great production in the the KC offense this season. And I think size matters. I think over time Mahomes size will be a liability. Over time, both guys will run and scramble less, because their bodies won't let them do the things they do know, and because defenses will adjust to their style. They will be forced to succeed more as pocket passers. When that happens, Allen will have a definite edge. Allen's size will allow him to play like Big Ben, and it will allow him to have a long career as a field general. Yes, it's true that Brees has succeeded largely as a pocket passer, and he's practically tiny. But Brees has had the luxury of a certifiable offensive genius as his head coach. And Brees is a freak. The odds of Mahomes evolving into the next Brees are smaller than Allen evolving into the next Big Ben. So for me, long-term, Allen and Mahomes are a push. Yes, Mahomes is in the lead currently; he's had a one-year head start and he's surrounded by talent. How much better do you think Allen's numbers would have been in 2018 if he'd been throwing to Kelce instead of Clay and Tyreek Hill instead of Foster? IF those two QBs are a push, I'm certainly not trading Edmunds and White so I can have Mahomes over Allen. And that's BEFORE I consider the real possibility that in the Edmunds the Bills have the best middle linebacker in the league for the decade of the 20s.

I wouldn't trade the three for Mahomes. No way. I believe five years from now, probably less, Allen will be the better QB, so I don't think I'd trade even up.

I agree with the notion that there were no guarantees Reich would have been the right guy at the time. He hadn't had his success in Philadelphia yet - he learned a lot there. I think there's a more important point, however, a point that I think isn't lost on the Pegulas or McBeane. To be successful, long term, you need a growing, unified organization. When the Bills win the Super Bowl, it has to feel like a win to Kelly and to Bruce and to Kyle. Everyone stays in the family, forever. That's something Ralph didn't understand. Don't burn bridges with Cookie and with Saban. It's all a family, and it's always building. And part of that is having the humility to listen to all those family members, even the drunk uncle who only drops in every five years. Listen and make what you hear part of your decision making. I think Brandon and Whaley, although I generally was supportive of what they were trying to do, had a circle-the-wagons mentality, but they didn't let everyone into the circle. It was a small circle, and they tended not to care about what people outside thought. It's easy for me to see them dismissing Bruce and Wolford, because they clearly were outside the circle. The Browns learned the lesson with Jim Brown. They kept him out for a while. It was a mistake. You don't have to make him GM, like Elway, but you have to keep him inside the circle. And you have to listen to him. I think the Pegulas have figured this out. In fact, I think McBeane have taught them about this, and they've taken it to heart. McDermott preaches Bills history and community. It's the OneBuffalo concept. When Bruce called, Russ Brandon probably told his assistant to take a message. When Bruce calls Beane, I'd guess Beane takes the call if he can. And Kim and Terry, too. They won't take your call or mine, but they'll talk to Bruce. Thinks have changed at OBD. Timing may not have been right for Reich, but things have changed, and the Bills are headed in the right direction. The Pegulas learned a big lesson with Rex. Several lessons. Their process wasn't right, and the people they had running the process weren't right. They figured that out and they changed it. It's too early to tell, but I think they got it right this time. They ran - THEY ran - a better process, and they made hires that resulted in a coherent, integrated front office team, owners, GM and HC headed in one direction together.

You may be wrong Biscuit. It probably was Barkley's best start - whenever i saw him earlier he looked like Peterman. Oh, no, that might be it. Barkley reminds McDermott of Peterman! Anyway, just about all the good journey men were lousy when they were young. They stuck around because they were smart team players who were helpful in the QB room. No one has a really good backup, and if they do, he's leaving. I think they want Barkley, with Anderson, to give Allen some stability. They want to keep as much the same as possible going into year two. Maybe in year three look to move on from Barkley, especially if you have a UDFA at QB on the practice squad in year two.

Didn't realize there were so many QBs likely to be on the move. Just like last season. It's nice for once not to be shopping for a QB.

One quality free agent and one high draft pick should net two starters. That should enough, with some growth from last season's starters. A third new face starting would be nice, but I think two is enough. And integrating two is possible; three new guys is like starting over, which is okay if you have to. I'd guess that among Dawkins, Bodine, Miller, Mills and Teller there are three 2019 starters.

Listen to his coach. He just loves the guy. Sounds like a competitor and a team player. McBeane's kind of guy. That plus talent is a nice combination.

More than five. That guy can catch. All these CFL guys are small. Makes Williams look like a giant. He won't have that advantage in the NFL. Still, he looks like a tough guy with hands. Should be an important addition. Without burning a draft pick.

I have a friend who is a big fan of the NFL, MLB, NHL and less of an NBA fan. When almost any game comes on, and none of his teams is involved, he is rooting for the team that he dislikes least. It's almost like he has them ranked in order of personal dislikability. That always seemed to take too much, maintaining an active dislike for some team. Even if I had a dislike for the Pats, it would be hard not to recognizable how remarkable their success has been. It's undeniable.

I'm really sick of watching the Patriots, but I admire them. I'm root against them pretty much all the time. Still, I'm mostly indifferent about them.

Thanks. That article is great. This guy sounds like he's ready for McDermott's leadership. I'm interested in the notion that he may be a tight end. He's a pretty good sized guy, he's tough and he seems to have good hands. Clay is too much the old style TE, and Croom simply may not have the size and aggressiveness to some of the TE dirty work. Williams could be a Kelce, Ebron type guy. He may not have the size he needs, but maybe it works. Certainly will be rooting for him.

The played a pregame interview with Luck. He said it's like they've been in the playoffs for weeks. Nothing has changed. They just do their work each day and stick with the process. McDermott isn't the only one with a process.

Has a rough history. If he passed the McBeane screeens, it means he has mostly straightened himself out. Could be a great talent upgrade.

Thanks, Milt. I appreciate the kind words.

Thanks for the link. It's a place I haven't used, but it seems to do a lot of good things. Home page has Josh Allen up as having thrown the longest pass - air yards - in 2018.

When you watched Galloway that day, you saw one of the 10 or 20 best receiving days by any receiver in the league in 2018. He was spectacular. There are probably 15 receivers in the league who can be dominant like that. Let's be generous and call it 30 who can dominate like that. Most of them are #1s or are on their way to becoming #1s quickly. Of course I'd like to have a guy like Galloway as my #2. 32 GMs would too. He's not the kind of guy you can expect to have in that position, at least until there's a general upgrade in other talent on the team. Let's face it, if a guy Galloway is in the Bills' camp next summer, he isn't taking Zay's #2 job. He's the #1 guy, and Zay probably keeps his job over Foster as the #2. The way Zay loses his job is the Bills get lucky in the draft and come up with a really talented receiver AND Foster continues his growth. It's possible, of course, particularly because Beane so adamantly goes after the best player available. So the Bills could get a really good rookie receiver. And it's also possible that the Bills continue to unlock Foster's talent and he makes another leap forward in 2019. He has the physical ability. So you could get your Galloway, but I think it's much more likely you're going to have Zay. I predict you'll be happy with him.

1. I thought he caught the ball fine this season. Had a few drops, but increasingly he seems to be catching all the balls he should. 2. I don't think #2s catch a lot of 50-50 balls. What #2s do is run good routes and catch the ball when their route attacks a weakness in the defense. That is, #2s are told to run their routes and be ready; the QB will read the defense and throw it to you. 3. I actually liked his route running this season. 4. Separation is a myth, at least for #2s. If you can get separation in a pure one on one situation, you're a #1. #2s and slot receivers get separation based on scheme, not on physical ability. Plus, he's played about one and half seasons. Like everyone that young, he's still learning. I'm sure replacing Zay is not a high priority for McBeane. They want a #1, for sure. They a tight end. They want o linemen. They want a running back. They want a lot of guys on defense. Zay is behind all of them on the to-do list.

Thanks. Those are both interesting points. And of course I may be wrong. Still, I'd guess that next season you'll see a guy who is targeted like a #2 and has stats like a #2. What I see is decent speed, good but not great hands, hard work and commitment.

Quickly eyeballing it, Colts have two in the top 10 and 3 in top 25. That and getting Luck back explains the turnaround. Browns have three in the top 10, including a QB. I didn't see anyone other than the Bills and Bears with two in the top 20. So on that list, the Bills are big winners compared to most the league. And if they were big winners, it means they have their two most important positions filled for next ten years. That's HUGE. Think about that - McBeane don't have to worry about a QB or an MLB for ten years. Belichick had it at QB, but no place on his defense. Bills need good coaching and good role players. Imagine a future where the Browns and Bills fight for AFC supremacy year after year. Like the Pats and the Colts, or the Pats and the Steelers. It's not so far-fetched.

Absolutely. We certainly can see what happened to productivity in his area, but we have no idea how he contributed to that productivity. The head coach and coordinator do.

Another comparison for Zay. The thread about the best rookies in the league says Calvin RIdley is already one of the best #2s in the league. Let's take that as true, even though on most teams Ridley may be a #1. Ridley caught 8 more passes than Zay for 170 more yards. That's the difference between one of the best #2s and Zay. And Ridley was on a team that threw 118 more passes, and he was on the field with a top 5 #1 and a top 5 slot receiver. Do you think Zay would have caught eight more passes playing for Atlanta with Ryan, Jones and Sanu? Zay was fine, and he'll be fine next season. Could someone do better? Sure. But he was far from being a liability in 2018. Next season he'll be on the field with better wideouts (either because McKenzie and Foster will improve, almost without question, or because the Bills will acquire better talent), with better pass protection (couldn't have been a lot worse) and a better QB. Zay won't be a problem.

Not sure what it all means. What are these rankings, like #62. I assume that means he ranks 62 on a list of something. All receivers? All wideouts?

True. It's all about big names, and the big names were built in college. FOr example, I haven't seen a lot of Darnold and Jackson, but I'd take Allen over both in a heartbeat. I know Jackson has been phenomenal running, but I have trouble seeing a long term future for him. I've never seen a lot of discussion around here about why the Bills took Edmunds instead of Vander Esch. I suppose the answer is that Edmunds had the greater upside, but Vander Esch has looked spectacular when I've seen him.

We're all pretty excited. In his end of season presser, Allen said he wants to keep playing. My wife is getting sick of hearing about the Bills since Sunday.

Yeah, that was a great play. He made a decent play on the ball, but as you say, it was his determination that stood out. And it did cause the fight - the Jags tried to pull him off their guy, and the Bills came in to protect him. And, by the way, his play kept the receiver out of the end zone. Huge turning point in the game.