Shaw66

I think the article is very interesting, but I'd take a different tack in talking about QB development. First, I don't think that coaches have ruined the careers of many, if any QBs. I think QBs may have been in better or worse circumstances, but I think that they succeed based on multiple characteristics of their own. I think it's helpful to start with the end in mind. What does a quality NFL starter - a franchise QB - look like? He has an arm that's good enough, mobility that's good enough, and a whole collection of mental skills - call it field generalship - that make him a winner. He's a competitor and a leader. Much of the field generalship comes from experience. There are NO great QBs in the their first or second year. Well, I'll give you, maybe Marino, but I know the details of his career well enough to talk intelligently. And I know people will say what about Mahomes, but I'm not sold. I think once the league figures him out, he will come back to earth. What makes a great QB is reading defenses and being able to make adjustments, and the only guys who can do that are guys who have accumulated years of experience. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers. They do stuff consistently that none of the young guys do. So how do you develop a QB? First, he has to have the physical tools. Then you have to get him a lot of experience. He can get some of that experience on the bench, in practice, watching film, etc. But some significant part of the experience he needs he has to get on the field. There's no other way. The question becomes how and when do you get him the on-field experience? I don't buy the notion that McVeigh may be limiting Goff by all his radio talk. The object is to get Goff on-field experience. If you get him a couple of seasons of experience by holding his hand on the radio, yes he's not making ALL the on-field judgments you might want, but he's doing something, he learning something, every play, every game. He can'n learn it all at once anyway, so let get lots of playing experience now and work him into the pre-snap read process gradually. Being on the radio a lot for a couple of years is not going to ruin Goff. If Goff is going to make it, he's going to make regardless of whether he made pre-snap reads early in his career. Similarly, a QB who plays with a dumbed-down play book. If he can't ever master the whole playbook, he's not going to make it. But he can start with a dumbed-down playbook, learn to make the reads with those plays, and work his way up. In both cases, you're talking about getting the guy on the field and getting him opportunities to gain experience. That's more important than waiting until some later time. Allen is doing it differently. They've thrown the whole playbook at him, and they're approach is to prep him each week for what he can expect to see. In all three cases, the objective is to get the guy to have some success, somehow, on the field. The objective is to get them experience without their having major failure to deal with. Is Rosen failiing because he's being mishandled? I doubt it. He's failing because he hasn't been able to translate enough of what he's been taught into successful play on the field. If he has what it takes to succeed as a starter, he will show someone in practice in Miami and at his next team, and with added experience from the bench, he'll start to better and eventually emerge. Can I prove any of this? No. I just think that's how it works.

Thurm I haven't had a chance to respond to this thread, but I wanted to thank you for posting the article. It's really interesting.

How can they be unprepared? Lots of ways. Lousy film study. Failure to recognize appropriate keys. Failure to teach appropriate keys. Failure to self scout well enough. Failure to recognize how the Dolphins might choose to attack certain defenses. Failure to recognize defensive adjustments the Dolphins likely would make. Everyone has a job to do, players and coaches. Just like the players, the coaches do a better job some weeks than others. Everything changes from week to week. What the Bills are trying to do is achieve a high level of excellence every week, but that's hard to do. They didn't do a good enough job. How could the Cowboys be unprepared for the Jets? Easy. It's very difficult to be excellently prepared week after week after week. That's why Belichick is a genius and everyone else is changing. The Pats are the only team that's well prepared essentially all of the time.

IJ just love the guy.

Right. I've said throughout that the Bills were not well prepared for the game.

Thanks. Game prep and game planning is a nice distinction. They weren't prepared, and they should have been. Allen should have known what to do with the pass rush, and in the first half it seemed he didn't. However they did it, they controlled it better in the second half, because on the biggest throws (like the pass to Duke and TD pass), Allen was comfortable.

Exactly. The biggest wildcard is Allen. If Allen starts playing some seriously good football, beginning this week, then this season could be special. But if what we get is nice, steady growth out of him, we're going to see inconsistent offense and the Bills will stumble occasionally. Not the end of the world if that happens.

The players may have said that, but what do the players know? Really. Even if they had the thought, they weren't going to say the game plan sucked. Either way, however, the Bills coaching failed. If the players were rusty and out of sorts, they weren't ready to play. That's on the coaches. If they had a lousy game plan, that's on the coaches. As someone said, the players didn't look like they weren't trying.

Anyone who thinks the Bills are world beaters isn't watching. They haven't been consistently solid in any phase of the game. Defense has been the best. What the Bills are doing is building. They're building a team that I expect will win big in 2020 and 2021. What McDermott is doing is teaching, and the players are learning. They learn more each week, and McD expects them to retain what they learn. Everyone talks about how bad Allen was in the first half against the Dolphins. I don't think the problem was that he was bad; the problem was that the Dolphins had the benefit of film study of the Bengals, Pats and Titans games. They figured out where they could attack the Bills defense and how to stop the Bills' staple offensive plays. So when went back to pass in the first half, he wasn't seeing what he expected. When Fitz went back to pass, he knew what he was getting, and his offensive line had good schemes to protect him against a line of average pass rushers who get little help from the blitz. The first object is to win the game, and they did. The second object is for the coaches to learn and grow, so that the offense and defense adjust going forward. What worked for the Dolphins won't work so well in the future, and Allen will know better how to handle it. It's possible the team will continue to grow fast enough that they'll win 12 games this year, but I don't think so. I think they will be like a lot of teams in the first year of a string of seasons in the playoffs. They'll be a wild card team, maybe a tough out, but they won't be consistently good enough across the board to go deep into the playoffs. Next season, they will add another layer of talent and depth, so the starting lineups will be stronger and there will be less likelihood of suffering when a Milano goes down. .

When he let it fly, I thought it was going out of the Stadium. He seemed to throw it about as hard as he could, so I doubt he could throw one out. LOL!!!

John - These running comments are fun. You saw pretty much what I saw. Allen is recovering nicely from the New England debacle. He's still just a second year guy, but he's learning. And as many people have commented, he's a great competitor. Fighting all the time. Leads the league in come from behind wins and fourth quarter wins. I really think that the first half problems were game planning problems, not Allen.

You're right about this. I don't boo them ever, but that's just me. In any case, as I said someplace else, I thought fans were booing because they weren't getting what they expected or wanted. That's just selfish. The team wasn't playing all that badly. They had the penalties, which was a problem, and they made some other mistakes. But other than that, they'd moved the ball, as well as the Dolphins, they just hadn't finished drives well. The Dolphins were playing really well. The commentators are talking more these days about game specific game plans. That's the league - you plan week by week. Your opponent plans week by week. The Dolphins clearly had prepared for the Bills really well. The Bills had prepared not quite as well, but well enough that they were able to get the job done. People who say the Bills should have crushed the Dolphins and therefore were playing badly are just wrong. The evidence is the Jets. The Jets were pretty bad to horrible most of the season, then man handle the Cowboys. Then they were blown away by the Pats. We weren't upset when the Pats beat the Cowboys, but somehow fans are outraged because the Dolphins modestly outplayed the Bills for a half. It's just the nature of the league.

You have a different memory. I was never a hockey player. When I was a kid, there were no indoor rinks. You only played hockey on outdoor rinks, which weren't ready until late December. So my hockey playing friends couldn't play hockey in October. LOL!!! Exactly. It would fill up the treads in your Keds. On the worst days you'd track it on the rug.

Lots if great comments embedded in that post. Thanks. I enjoyed them.

I don't think so. I think it was all about film study and game planning. Fitz did to the Bills defense what Brady could not. I'm not buying that Fitz is better than Brady. The Dolphins studied the film and figured what would work against the Bills and executed it. They also studied the Bills offense and were able to take away all the simple throws that Allen has gotten in past weeks. He had no place to go with the ball in the first half. Fitz wouldn't have been better than Allen.

He's automatic. People complain that he's a compiler and not one of the greats, but that's no the way to look at it. Gore gets the most he can out of every carry. He squeezes through holes, he breaks tackles, he falls forward. Every year in the NFL a half dozen teams have a guy like that. Those guys don't look great, they don't look like Sayers or Sanders or anyone you want to name, but they are very effective for their teams. If they're really good, they do it for three or four years and then they're done. Gore has done it for 15 years. That's incredible. He's had NINE 1000 yard seasons. There's never been anyone who was that effective for that long. Walter Payton had 11 seasons over 1000. Gore might get to 10 this season. Gore might pass Payton for most career yards. They both have a 4.4 yard per carry in their careers, and the only reason Payton has more yards is because he had more carries. NOBODY says Payton was a compiler. Gore is a Hall of Fame lock.

Well, I guess we answered that question. I asked it because I really didn't have a solid opinion either way. As I think about it, McDermott's always going to trust his defense (even when it couldn't stop the Dolphins except with turnovers). So he's likely to say take the points.

Saturday and Sunday in western New York were two of those autumn days an old guy like me remembers fondly, so fondly that sometimes I wonder if they ever really happened. Did I just imagine bright sunshine, mid-60s, the wind stirring just enough to cool and refresh your face? Clouds drifting by, trees decorated with red and yellow and orange, some trees already bare. And football. When I was a kid I loved playing touch football with my friends on days like this, sometimes in the street, sometimes in a field the builders had left vacant. Sunday, Bills fans gathered at New Era Field to watch the Bills play the Dolphins. It was a beautiful day, like the ones I remember from my childhood, and I went to the field to watch a game instead of play one. Tailgate parties were everywhere, music played, footballs were tossed around. It was perfect. Then the football started, and things were no longer perfect. The reality of the NFL set in, “on any given Sunday” and all of that. More about that below. I had planned to bring my grandson to the game, but that didn’t work out, and I had an extra ticket. I sold it through the Bills and NFL Ticket Exchange, which worked really well. I was worried that I’d get a Dolphins fan, and I was pleased when a Bills fan named Peter showed up and took his seat. Peter isn’t just any old Bills fan. Peter is a Bills fan from the United Kingdom. His sister came to Canada as a young woman and never left. She lives in St. Catherine’s, and Peter comes to visit her every year or two. He became a Bills fan during the Kelly Super Bowl era, watches the Bills on television when they’re on and watches the Red Zone when they aren’t. He planned this trip for these three weeks, hoping he could catch two or three home games. We had a good time together. I usually clap and make some noise when the Bills are on defense, and after a while Peter start doing it, at least on the big plays. Peter’s an accountant and I’m a lawyer, and I think Peter realized that if I could make a fool of myself at a football game, he could too! My seats are on the Bills sideline at the closed end of the field, and Peter got some good video of the fourth quarter touchdowns and the fan celebrations. He’ll be back. Maybe I’m imagining this too, but I’m pretty sure that in his first year as head coach, Sean McDermott taught his players to win the fourth quarter. Whatever else happens, win the fourth quarter. And so it was again on Sunday, when the Bills in the first half looked like anything but a 4-1 team playing the winless Dolphins. They moved the ball in fits and starts and took a lot of penalties. Three listless drives ended in field goals. The Dolphins seemed to know all the Bills tendencies and those easy completions Josh Allen got earlier in the season were nowhere to be seen. Everything was difficult. As good as they were on defense against the Bills, the Dolphins were better on offense. They had studied the film and found plenty of weaknesses in the Bills’ defense. In Ryan Fitzpatrick they had the kind of veteran quarterback who could attack those weaknesses play after play. It was masterful performance by Fitzpatrick, who repeatedly found the open receiver and delivered catchable balls. And the Dolphins were running the ball effectively, too. 14-9 at the half. When the Dolphins put together an incredible 19 play, 9+ minute drive to open the second half, they seemed ready to surprise the league and beat the Bills. Earlier in the game, I had told Peter that through Fitzpatrick’s career, his unfortunate trademark had been the untimely interception and then, as if to prove to Peter that I had some special insight, Fitz was Fitz one more time. In his defense, his throw wasn’t horrible, but they rarely are. He put the ball in a spot where his receiver could catch it but where a really good defensive play could beat him, and Tre White made the play. The interception followed an amazing sequence where the Bills stopped the Dolphins on third down near the goal line. White almost stopped the fake field goal short of the first but saved the touchdown. Then Jordan Phillips burst into the backfield to tackle Fitz for a big loss. The fans erupted, and on the next play, White made the interception. Then the Bills won the fourth quarter. It started on the two-yard line after White’s play, right in front of Peter and me. Most of the drive was in the final minutes of the third quarter, including a beautiful 23-yard completion to Duke Williams. The fourth quarter began, and the Josh Allen completed the 98-yard drive with another beautiful throw, this time 20 yards to John Brown on a skinny post. Brown ran a great route and fought off the defender’s hold, and Allen delivered the ball. Gorgeous. The Bills had the lead. When Tre White forced a fumble six minutes later, the Bills got another touchdown, and the game was over. A loss would have spoiled a perfect weekend; the Bills had to win, and they did. A few random observations from the game. 1. In the 11-on-11 warmups before the game, the defense always lets the running back slide through the line so that he can run 40 yards and complete the imaginary touchdown. On one rep, Singletary broke through the line and headed for the end zone. Kurt Coleman surprised him, jumping in front of Singletary as if to make a tackle. Singletary made a great, quick change of direction and blew past Coleman to the goal line. The two joked about it as they returned to their positions. When he was up next, Singletary caught a pass and ran to the end zone. Coleman surprised him again, this time catching Singletary from behind at the goal line and grabbing him. They joked around again and returned to their positions. They were like two lion cubs wrestling and playing with each other. 2. I was a big McCoy fan, and I loved having him on the team, but, man, it’s a pleasure watching Frank Gore work. Every run is a quality run. He gets the most out of every play, gets up and does it again. 3. Josh Allen really seems to have lost his feel for the deep ball. He missed McKenzie up the right sideline, and he overthrew Roberts badly deep down the middle. Can he only complete those passes to Foster? 4. John Brown is the sweet receiver we’ve seen on highlights for years. His touchdown was professional, and his 24-yard reception a few minutes later was textbook. So nice. 5. A few weeks ago, when Tre White clinched a win with an interception off a twice-tipped ball, McDermott praised him for doing something they teach – keep running to the ball until the whistle. Sunday, Jerry Hughes turned and ran upfield on a Fitzpatrick completion. His hustle put him in position to recover the fumble White created. Big play. Oh, and if we liked seeing Kyle Williams in the offensive backfield last season, I can’t wait to see Jerry when it’s his turn. That man can run with the ball! 6. After the Bills took the lead in the fourth quarter, the defense forced the Dolphins to punt. On third and five, Allen had his overthrow of Roberts. While still on the field, Beasley ripped off his helmet and threw it 20 yards to the bench. He was really hot. I don’t know why, but I’m guessing it was because he was open for the first down and Allen got greedy. It looked like he talked to Barkley about it on the bench , and Barkley then talked to one of the coaches. Beasley regained his composure and made a really nice catch for the TD after the Hughes fumble recovery. It should have been an easy score, but Allen drilled it high and outside. Beasley wasn’t going to miss the opportunity. 7. Micah Hyde is really talented. He went way into the air to catch the onside kick after the Dolphins second-last desperation drive. Hyde’s the primary “receiver” on their onside kick recovery team because the Bills trust his hands and his judgment. Interestingly, the primary receiver on the other side of the formation is Lee Smith. I don’t get that. 8. Shouldn’t Hyde have given himself up at the one-yard line? Take a knee, let the offense come out and run out the clock? By scoring the touchdown, he left the game in doubt. The Dolphins could have scored a miracle touchdown, on a kickoff return, long pass, gadget play, something, and had another chance at an onside kick. 9. I’ve always liked Fitz. He’s been cursed, playing on a series of bad teams. I’m sure the Chiefs wish they had him as their backup instead of Matt Moore. Fitz would be having a ball running that offense. Or imagine if Fitz had been the backup in New Orleans; he might not have been better than Bridgewater, but he would have had a chance to run a big-time offense. 10. I’ve never liked the QBR. I don’t understand it, and I don’t think it does what it’s intended to do, which is to measure a QB’s overall performance. Sunday’s box score is a perfect example. Fitz had a QBR of 60, and Josh Allen was 50. Huh? Fitz’s passer rating was 88 compared to Allen’s 111, Allen ran for more yardage and a better average, Allen threw more TD passes and fewer interceptions, somehow Fitz has a dramatically better QBR. Why? Because he scored a touchdown in semi-garbage time? Fitz had a good game, but Allen was better. Thanks for a nice afternoon, Peter. Safe travels. GO BILLS!!! The Rockpile Review is written to share the passion we have for the Buffalo Bills. That passion was born in the Rockpile; its parents were everyday people of western New York who translated their dedication to a full day’s hard work and simple pleasures into love for a pro football team.

Yeah, I suppose, but I tend to think with each guy it's more about one or the other, not a combination of both. So, to take out favorite example, Duke Williams was on the practice squad for development. They clearly liked him, but they didn't think he was ready. Similarly Foster last season. But Ray Ray is depth. They don't have any great expectations that he will develop into a starter. They've seen him long enough to have a good sense of his upside. He could develop, of course, but that isn't why they signed him. They want receiver depth, and he gives to the Bills better than that guy they signed a couple of weeks ago, because Ray Ray has time in the system. If the Bills need help at receiver next week, Ray Ray will know what he's supposed to do. I think the emphasis probably changes over the course of the season. After the roster gets down to 53, you probably pick practice squad based on the guys who look like they can fill in if called up (depth) and who also have potential (development). At this point in the season, unless some guy becomes a free agent who you've always wanted on your team, I think the guys you pick up are for depth. You're not going to start developing guys in the middle of the season - all you care about is teaching them enough stuff so that if you need to call them up, they will know what they're doing. And that's why Ray Ray was a no brainer over the guy they signed then released.

Oh, I think he's going to be great. I'm a huge fan of his. But anyone who thinks he's playing like a top 20 quarterback isn't watching. He has a long way to go. Having said that, I think we will see a much better QB in the coming weeks.

I've said over and over, if you want to evaluate quarterbacks, all you have to do is look at the passer rating. Passer rating correlates excellently with the best QBs. Brady, Brees, Rodgers and Wilson consistently have the best passer rating. Where does Allen rank in passer rating this season? 30th, that's where. His passer rating this season is essentially no better than his passer rating last season. The simple fact is that Allen is not been nearly effective enough. Yes, his numbers would look different if you took away just a handful of stupid plays, but that's true for everyone. Allen has not been very good. And people who point at the wins, as though Allen gets credit for the wins, are dreaming. Yes, he's led 4th quarter drives, but the defense is winning all those games, not Allen.

Uh, that's why I said "usually" not about the future. Yes, it can be for development. But it's mostly about depth.

The practice squad is depth, usually not the future. You need depth because the injuries come unexpectedly and often. At this point in the season, adding a guy to the practice squad who knows the system is valuable. Much better to get him than a guy off the street who knows nothing about how the Bills work.

Ticket was sold.

Baseball umpires are full-time with a big off-season. Football should be no different. Pay them $150,000-$200,000 a year, plus travel and benefits, you'll get plenty of guys looking for that job. It just wouldn't be very hard to do. I mean, when a guy is a high school principal Monday through Friday, gets on a plane Friday night to fly to his NFL assignment, then has to fly home Sunday night to be at school the next morning, do you really believe he'll be as sharp calling games as a guy whose focus all week is on calling the games as well as he can?