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Ortons slide the week prior a yard short of the 1st down line almost made me break my TV. Thankfully Josh just runs through people now.

That is actually really awesome

That's amazing. Ironically I actually have a picture of the stadium autographed by the entire 2014 Bills squad I got that day which is also hanging somewhere in my house.

With Sundays game approaching against the Pack and the first home game vs GB since 2014 it brought me back to that Sunday 8 years ago, what it is like as I attended, and how far we have come since then: The 2014 season was a wild and I mean wild year. Ralph died, Jim got cancer, Andre went to the Hall, Jim beat cancer, and the Pegula's became the front runners and eventual new owners basically all before the season started. The team itself lost Kiko for the season due to his knee, added Sammy, and there was some optimism for a better season as the defense had shown some teeth the year prior and EJ had flashed some potential. Well fast forward to the GB game the Bills were "in the hunt" although in a better way then normal at 7-6 with a great defense and better then normal outside chance to get the wild card. The offense has transitioned as EJ failed out for Kyle Orton who sometimes could do some things in the passing game. The running game wasn't great as Spiller was out for the year at this point so it fell on Freddie who was injuried at times and Bryce Brown. On the flipside this was probably the second best Packers team over the last decade (2011 15-1 tops) as they were leading the league in scoring as Rodgers won MVP and was loaded in skill players. The defense was stout enough and Micah Hyde had 221 yds in punt return yards (MICAH!). The Bills actually limited Peyton Manning's Broncos the week prior to just 24 pts the week prior, but I distinctly remembered heading into that week that no one gave Buffalo much of a chance. Additionally Buffalo had not played meaningful late season game since 2007 against CLE so it was a foreign feeling to have any emotion in a game this late in the year let alone maybe have a playoff shot. For us drought kids (34 now) this was like the first real time as an adult to have a Bills team be remotely competitive so it meant something regardless of how small that something was. Still it was kind of like hopefully Buffalo is competitive and will see Rodgers at the height of his powers which is neat. I went to the game and we sat section 223 I believe. It was the first time I ever felt at the stadium that energy people talk of when something cool or good maybe happens. My father said during the 80s and 90s when the team started to rise and was good you could tell it had a different feel in the crowd. By this point I had been to enough games to understand the difference and my brother in law who saw the 34-31 upset of the Pats in 2011 said it felt like that day. For a wintery type day the weather actually wasn't too bad. The game itself felt like something out of a movie as things started going Buffalo's way forcing GB to punt and then holding the Packers to a FG. You could tell the crowd really started to buy in that this could be a day on Marcus Thigpens 75 yd punt return and the place was bedlam when that happened. The second half went Buffalo's way as Rodgers got picked twice by Bacarri Rambo with the second INT killing a 12 play Packer drive that was going to at least put the Pack within 3 or allow them a 1pt lead. Instead Buffalo then scored a FG to go up 19-10 and put the screws to GB mid 4th quarter. One thing that is not talked about enough despite how well the Bills D played it the Jordy Nelson dropped deep pass. On the drive which Rambo got his second INT Rodgers found Jordy Nelson deep dead to rights which probably would've been a TD... but he dropped the ball. If ever there was a sign things were going Buffalo's way that was it. Still as Bills fans how many times during that past decade and half had we lost in games to good teams late despite everything seemingly go our way. I think that is why on the final Packer possession it was so loud and out of control until the fumble/safety finally happened to ice the game. At the time that was loudest I can remember the stadium when Mario Williams force fumbled Rodgers to clinch the win. Also Mario Williams was a beast all day, in general I consider him more of a success and have good thoughts then bad. You could feel the relief exude in the stadium that the upset had been pulled and the parking lot after had more people stay to celebrate then I could remember in my time going. Of course the Bills flopped the following week to kill their playoff dreams, but it was a fun season compared to the prior 10 years. Looking back on how everything has changed to now it is really wild. The Bills offense was honesty not very good then and didn't deserve to win, yet now we run a juggernaut and have a god at QB. I don't take that for granted. The hype and excitement leading to that game/annoyance we were not primetime has given way to regularly being in the national spot light and the hype just always being at mach 5. If you told most fans in the stadium that day where things would stand this coming Sunday jaws would drop for all of these things. The fact Rodgers never made it back to SB also is pretty wild as watching him at that point the guy was so damn good. That game to me though has always been the demarcation point of the Bills finally emerging from the wilderness in the national landscape. Subsequent years the team gained attention prominently Rex/Shady etc.., broke the drought in 2017, and then all the good stuff since Josh came. But for me that was the first snowball that helped to slowly create the massive run roiling today and was a really cool moment in time.

So I will comment on what I can and with insight of what my parents and family saw as I am 34. I remember or started focusing on the Bills mid 90s as a kid and the 1998-99 teams really stick out to me as the entire area is wild about the QB controversy. You really couldn't go anywhere with that being a thing and the 99 team everybody said had SB potential with the defense if the offense could do enough. I remember that Bills stuff was everywhere and when the game was on everything shutdown there was no streaming the game. Additionally because blackouts were a big deal and we had a pretty large stadium it was actually semi normal to listen to the game regularly as some of the games which were dogs def were not on TV. My dad has said the excitement and energy now or going back to 2020 on is equivalent if not more wild in many ways. The big difference is Josh Allen is essentially the face of the league and Kelly / no one else back them could make quiet that claim. One thing he has said is the games in terms of apparel are much more commercialized. People would wear Bills hats or beanies, some had clothing, but todays stadium virtually everyone is head to toes bills stuff, that wasn't the case in the 90s. My family also said in the 90s Buffalo was a city in harsh transition as the steel industry and a lot of manufacturing had collapsed years prior and things had not stabilized. Additionally Buffalo became a punch line because of the blizzard of 77 so there was a real chip on peoples shoulder nationally because of this and the Bills being good was in a sense an identity thing that we are good in something and you can't do anything about it. Take a look at the 1980 season and the "talking proud" campaign the Bills embraced with the city (the song is atrocious but whatever it was the 80s). The city of Buffalo by no means is perfect now, but the population and area has stabilized with small growth and the city has some things going for it. People still use the Bills as a big part of the identity but I would attest it is different compared to the areas feelings back then. Concluding my thesis (haha) I think the ability now to consume the Bills in so many ways and how it is broadcast as a sport with the NFL is magnified to make things much bigger and because of Josh especially it is bigger. Josh Allen is a legitimate person in the scope of the US media and popularity and how the league markets him allows him a greater window then before. With blackouts gone and the ability to watch games in replay or real time people can do things for the team you couldn't in the past. In 2021 my wife and I did our Bills party we host yearly in August due to my son being born in Sept. We replayed the Bills Dallas game in crystal clear 1080 outside in the back yard. My brother in law to test for opening night against the Rams had us over and we rewatched Bills games outdoors Labor day weekend. Outside of VHS recording and a heck of an electronics setup you just couldn't do many of these things. The social media piece is also wild in how we connect to players and some of the best things as a fanbase we have done for charity root in social media allowing a mass message to go quickly. The NFL has went from a August - January league to a year wide thing and even out of season the advertising and events never stop. With the Bills being so good right now and having Josh you get to be part of everything in a higher bigger way then before. It is legitimately awesome and something I never thought I would see during the drought.

HOLYFIELD!

I hear that but we have enough BS with the state and people complaining about the cost

If you are referring to the red helmets a lot of teams are doing them in 23 because of delays in supply. My guess has always been the Bills wanted to but with the logistics that go into the helmet it is a 2023 thing. The Pegulas have also spoke to not going wild with jerseys and look so they have a more consistent identity. Took some time with the Sabres but they are back to what people wanted and the Bills have had a strong consistent look for a long time now. I do think the red helmets happen at some point, but that will be as wild as they go.

Oneills on corner of abbott and southwesetern is superb and they move people at tables so they can get people through

The agreement is signed and they are finalizing the community agreement. My general guess is the sitting governor and crew asked for nothing to be announced until after so it doesnt bring up attention during the campaign. The majority of the state funds are actually just casino repayment from the Seneca's.

Agreed. It really feels like a transition year across the league right now and in a year or two things will balance out with some new blood and another QB or two joining Allen, Mahomes, and Burrow. By the way what are your thoughts are Kyler Murray? He def has been an upgrade over Rosen and they are a borderline playoff team with him. He also looks to have plateau'd pretty hard and is very up and down.

Gonna be like survivor fans gonna just start voting guys off the roster and were gonna have just Von Miller, Oliver, and Millano :)

I was at the Thursday night game in Miami. Incredible atmosphere, Bills still had season despite the Bryce Brown KC loss, and a great defense... I was never more enraged after a game in my life. Swearing in a four hour car ride back to Ft Myers at my aunt's house about how bad and pathetic the offense and coaching was and why can't we have an offense that actually attacks. Thank you Josh.

Basically this ^

So from what I remember this past offseason the idea was Hackett and Rodgers were a package deal. Apparently Rodgers really liked Hackett as his dude calling plays etc.. (I know make the jokes lol) and Denver basically went full court press for Rodgers right down to hiring Hackett as a coach. My understanding from reading NFL media circles is once they didn't get Rodgers it was plan B for Wilson while at the same time internally acknowledging Hackett may not be the best coach if they get Wilson but they literally just hired him and he had good reviews at least from GB. The hype train for Hackett was he managed a middling offense for the Bills, he got more out of Bortles then anyone, and then in GB Rodgers had three incredible seasons including two MVPs. Not saying I agree with this by the way, I 100% think it was a mistake and I never got the hype for him but the NFL media spins things how they want.

Bingo

I think a point too that has some validity is the 2020 and 2021 years had really different pre-season and training periods. 2020s numbers are inflated big time for offenses as with no major crowds it was way easier to communicate. Factor in COVID took players out of the lineup a lot and I felt like it hit defenses harder then offenses, you finally get a normal year where things balance more back towards defenses gaining an edge while offenses lose that.

He has had two games with 480 yds and 5 tds in the last two seasons which is pretty rare in league history. The kid can play and stay up with Josh which is legit No Chiefs own the division I meant more that the Raiders are back in playoff race.

Thing to me is lets say Bills are 13-2 heading into that game and Cincy is 11-4 (7-1 up to that point then) with the offense rolling I could see Cincy being a 1pt fav. Not really a slight as much as situational.

NFL: We are nearing the halfway point of the season and this season has felt weird if not down in terms of total team play. Currently the Jets are 5-2, the Seahawks are 4-3 and lead the NFC West, the Bucs and Falcons are tied at an impressive 3-4 record for the NFC South lead, Russell Wilson has been the Hindenburg in Bronco Country (Lets Ride!), and the Lions are tied for last in the NFL (Ok that is normal). But besides bad play on Thursday Night and some early weird results something else is actually true: offenses are producing in a much lower level then we have seen in over a decade. Per Joe Marino @thejoemarino on twitter 14 NFL teams are averaging 1 TD or less passing TDs per game. The NFL has adjusted to being a league that favors passing attacks above everything as we have seen with rule change and how the game is played. So why are things down? For starters defenses for years were getting torched as they played coverages that allowed for deep threats to blow by them. The last two years most teams have moved away from 3-4 defenses back towards 4-3 defenses with two safeties high so you can't get beat deep and can pressure the passer faster. That in turn has forced offenses to play a more patient attack that attacks in moderate chunks which favors mistakes to happen. Some of the best passers last year and years prior like Brady, Stafford, Rodgers, Wilson, & Carr all are producing at much lower levels then before as age really seems to be impacting Brady and Rodgers finally. Conversely young QBs like Kyler Murray, Trevor Lawrence, and Justin Fields have all been limited this year for various reasons and not taken the mantle to be in that elite group. Finally football like any sport is circular in nature with some teams rising and others falling. Forever people were use to the Patriots, Steelers, Saints, Packers, and Colts having dynamic passing attacks and now all of them are struggling to various degrees. Buffalo, KC, & Philly obviously are great, but there is space for a few other teams to join these offenses as part of top echelon and this may just be a year of transition for that. One final point is that the last few years have seen the retirement of QBs like Big Ben, Rivers, and Brees with Brady and Rodgers seemingly days away from joining them. The last decade and half is the finest QB play the league ever has seen and that group was the collective driver of that. I am sure Mahomes and Allen will have some other QBs reach their level or close, but like teams in transition from good to bad the QB position is also for some new faces. AFC BAL- Watching the Ravens this year you have to ask are they just finding themselves as a team or are the fourth quarter issues real? They won yesterday but they made it way harder on themselves with turnovers late. I still think they take the division but they need to really smooth out their rough areas. BUF- The only game left on the schedule they might not be favored in is at CIN week 17 as they Bengals look better finally. The path to the one seed is wide gold brick road at this point, now or never. CIN- The offense is rolling finally as Chase is on fire right now and the defense is doing its job. They are at CLE on Monday night but then have Carolina and Pittsburgh next, stack some wins and create space boys. CLE- The NFL screwed them a timeout by running 2 seconds off the clock to get to the 2 minute warning after the missed FG at Baltimore. The offense again was productive and the defense while better still had its issues. They are not a bad team, but the rope for mistakes is pretty short if they want to survive and be in the playoff race when Watson returns. DEN- No way Hackett makes it to year 2. Even with Wilson out (which wasn't much of a loss) the offense looks managed and misguided. I get they brought Hackett in to try and lure Rodgers, but its has been to the detriment of the team and a defense that is top 5 in the league. HOU- The Texans are expected to move Bradin Cooks at the deadline as the productive WR has value. It makes sense, but it will take away from the future offensive corp and they will need to find some new WRs in FA23 and the draft to help their new QB. IND- With an opportunity to take the division back the offense faltered as Jonathan Taylor had just 58 yards rushing and Matt Ryan threw 2 INTs and only 243 yds on 44 attempts. IND is supposed to have Ryan in 2023 as the starting QB, but it is very hard to see how as he is dragging the rest of the roster down. JAX- Tough tough loss at home as the Jags have lost three in a row all by a TD in each. Travis Etienne averaged 8.1 a carry Sunday and can help take some pressure of Trevor who while playing better still has taken some hits this season. KC- The 49ers thought they had Mahomes and crew contained after the 1st half. Then KC figured out they could rip the 49ers over the top and that was that. Also JuJu is heating up with a 7 catch 124 yd 1 TD day a week after a good showing against the Bills. LAC- Cursed or underperforming or bad coaching or all of it, the Chargers got stomped at home against Seattle. Just is Herbert a great talent and good QB, but people need to slow down on putting him in the Allen/Mahomes category. MIA- Tua looked rusty, the coaching staff made some really bad calls, and the Dolphins lucked to a win against PIT. Tua will have some better days again this season and they are a playoff team, but they have some real holes on offensive line and up front on D that will hold them back. Also teams are finding their adjustments for the Phins passing attack. NE- The Chicago game should be a win and if they want to maintain playoff pace in the AFC the Pats cannot afford a let down. Mac Jones better be ready because a bad night will open the floodgates for Zappe. NYJ- 5-2 is a huge improvement for the airplane people, but Bryce Hall is a killer just as he got going. That injury puts even more pressure on Zach Wilson who has just 1 TD pass in four games and has not been asked to do much until now. PIT- Pickett wasn't awful against MIA but his final INT was a rookie mistake that ruined a good effort by the defense. He had 20 yards in front of him to run and get a new set of downs. Going for the TD every time bites every young passer, we shall see if he can mature and shake that a bit. Raiders- The Raiders are 2-4 now with the offense finally on pace scoring 30ppg in the last three. With the Saints, Jags, Colts, and Broncos up next they might be able to crawl back to life if the offense maintains this pace. TEN- The Titans are the kings of the AFC South right now despite a -13 pt differential. But take out the Buffalo disaster and they actually are + 21 for the season. They have Houston this week and then KC on SNF the first Sunday of November. You have to think they want to make a statement then that they belong in the top teams discussion NFC ATL- The plus side is with Tampa losing they are tied for the division crown right now, the bad is they got exposed for lack of talent on a defense bottom 5 in points allowed and potentially out three starters Sunday against Carolina. Ex Bill Dean Marlowe might be getting the start at safety Sunday. ARZ- They won thanks to Andy Dalton's pick 6, but allowed over 400 yards on defense and the offense doesn't look right. I really wonder if Kingsburry makes it past this year if they miss the playoffs as soo much is invested in Kyler and he has not been very good. CAR- Carolina walked away with a boat load of draft capital for a RB who will break down in a year or two again. Early pain now will result in pouring a strong foundation in the 23 Draft and finally grabbing a franchise QB after years of missing at that. CHI- The Patriots a nightmare for young QBs and BB always has a strong gameplan for them. Maybe America will luck out and the Bears actually score two touchdowns or more this week, poor Justin Fields. DAL- Dak had some rust but they figured it out and the Cowboys sit comfortably at 5-2 for the playoffs. The Cowboys ran for 139 yards and 2 TDs which should help to let Dak find his way back in the next few weeks, although Pollard needs to be the lead back as Zeke is averaging 3.8 ypc vs Pollards 6.9. DET- This week had to have been maddening for Lions faithful as the defense held Dallas to 24 points and it was 10-6 heading into the fourth. But four turnovers on offense will kill most teams and the offense failed to crack 300 yards for the day. GB- I mean what is left to be said Rodgers looks broke, the offense looks broke, and they can't finish games anymore. More importantly Rodgers depth per pass has went from 9 yards in 2020, 7.88 yards in 2021, now to 5.88 in 2022. Time is never kind and the lack of talent at WR and the O-line being wrecked by injuries' only highlight Rodgers struggles further. LAR- A week off allows McVay to fix and restructure an offense that is hurt by injuries and in general looking out of snych. Les Snead didn't have the ammo for McCaffrey and you wonder if he can even make a move this year given the lack of depth in a year the roster needs it badly. MIN- Apparently the Vikings being off ruined TV watching yesterday. Their next two are ARZ and at WSH with an opportunity to put the division more out of reach. On the flipside Kirk Cousins slow start has him off to his worst numbers in MIN even though the Vikes are 5-1 proving even further QB wins are not a stat. NYG- This years cinderella story won another close comeback game Sunday against the Jags to get to 6-1. Daniel Jones hasn't been sensational, but he his taken Dabolls coaching well and is not turning the ball over with just 2 INT's in 7 games and no fumbles lost. Safe but smart passing mixed with a dynamite running attack will do things in the NFL. NOLA- The Saints are averaging the third most yards on offense this year yet they are 2-5, what gives? Turnovers and defense. The Saints defense have allowed 200 pts leading the NFL and the offense has given the ball away 16 times good for over two a game. The Saints invested a lot into their defense and the fruits are not there. Without a 1st round pick this year and a constricting cap situation New Orleans may need a full on reset if they truly want to get out of this faster. PHI- With the Eagles off the Philly faithful saw the Phillies make it to the World Series. Fun fact in 1980 both the Eagles and Phillies made their respective titles games as the Phillies took home the crown while the Eagles were upset by the wildcard Raiders. Does it happen again in 2022? SEA- Many were critical of what the Seahawks did in the offseason including myself, but Geno is playing well, Kenneth Walker looks like a gem at RB, and the young defense led by CB Tariq Woolen who has 4 INT and 6 PD is finding its way. Oh and Seattle has Denver's 1st round pick in 2023 which might be quite high in the draft. SF- Not many teams can stop the Chiefs attack still for a defense that gets so much praise it was a bit of a letdown Sunday to see them shredded so hard. Additionally while McCaffrey is a game changing talent with Jimmy G at QB the teeth in this offense is only so much regardless of who is surrounding Jimmy. TB- What was that? Just a putrid showing on offense from everyone highlighted by Mike Evans dropping the easiest 75 yard TD of his life. Still the division is crap, the offense has talent even if it is older, and Brady is smart enough to manage the offense to get back into gear but at some point this engine has to turnover too.

Entirely possible

the amount of truly wild stats on other teams success compared to the lions or things in life not existing since their last division crown are just unreal. I’ve honestly wondered what Lions fans would do if they went 11-5 and made it to just the NFC title again. I gotta believe you’d see some wild fandom Blake Bortles but they basically are the same QB lol. I probably could’ve swapped them with Houston to move them up at least, but after that just feels like everyone else has a more compelling case.

I had them 10th. Of teams that haven’t won the SB it feels like everyone else has a more compelling case not that the Jags haven’t been really bad.

I listed my logic for not listing them, but if I were to they are top 3 all day. If you can move past then all power to you, I can't and won't.

My bad they are 0-6. But yea and they have had three just gut punching losses in 87, 98, and 09 where they either had the lead and blew it or could tie the game and failed to. That is killer to the max.