Success

I really hope we can get back to feeling confident w/ him. It's hard to blame him for the missed kick that ended the season this year - there was a huge gust, and you could really see it. But he has just been shaky overall.

People always talk Mahomes/Allen, but Butker/Bass has arguably been more of a difference in the matchups.

How can anyone not root for the Bills? It's like the Cubs used to be in baseball. You have to be kind of a sadist to hope a fanbase continues to experience heartbreak after heartbreak.

I'm surprised at the Brady mentions. Now that he's retired, I respect what he did. Incredible overachiever - just a ton of hard work, and one of the most clutch athletes in history. My list is Gronk, Edelman - and I'd probably list those 2 guys again if I had to come up w/ 4.

Just a side note because you mentioned Belichick in the OP - I think that guy loves Allen, kind of how he felt about players like LT & Ed Reed. I think he sees a pure football player & competitor. I remember him making a bee-line for Josh after some of those games.

Probably Lawrence Taylor. Such an impact player. When I was growing up, Earl Campbell was also a fave.

Yeah - I'd really prefer stifling heat, hurricanes and shallow people. Hey, Jonnu - you'll never win the division while you're there. You'll be looking up at Buffalo literally the entire time. Allen is better than Tua, and the Bills are better than the Phins. Nyah, nyah.

I'm totally pulling for him. That was such bad luck what happened.

Like I said - wide open Shakir might have been the last time an easy TD was open like that. I think the whole debate is just indicative of how insanely nitpicky we've gotten in the internet age. I saw one fan say Allen had "rocks for brains" for making that decision. As though a QB shouldn't go for an open guy in the endzone, and should work there way down to a TD slowly like you can in a video game.

Dude, elite QB's do NOT think that way. Oh, dear - my defense can't hold up; I shouldn't take the open guy in the endzone, and just dink & dunk down to the 1, where we can easily roll in for a last second TD. Shakir being open might have been the last clean shot JA had in that circumstance. Once you get down inside the 15 and inside the 10 - defenses tighten up. There might not have been any more open looks, or even looks that weren't heavily contested. You take the open guy when you've got him. Period. You can't script a few yards here, a few yards there, eat up the clock & then magically score.

That's really not what I see, or have seen. And when you rank rosters - are you factoring in that in this past year's playoff game, the Bills were missing 3 LB's, 2 CB's (with 2 that were starting playing hurt), and a starting safety? Is it any wonder at all why there was a huge disparity in 1st down yardage between the 2 teams? And it still came down to a missed FG. I'd argue that there is no way KC wins that game w/ similar injuries on defense, and the Bills being relatively healthy. KC fans will always try to use team accomplishments to prop up Mahomes over Allen, and most of the football world does, too. Rejoice in that. Most people think Mahomes is clearly the best.

Is the argument here that circumstances are inconsequential? Great QB's win Super Bowls no matter where they are & who they play for and with?

I haven't heard anyone say that Allen doesn't carry his team more. You're probably the 1st Chiefs fan I've seen who doesn't acknowledge that. Just look at this past year's playoff game. I can name 3-4 other Chiefs who had game impacting plays. I can't think of another Bill who did besides Allen - maybe Shakir's catch? And that's how it always goes. Allen's D lets him down - this is well known. Mahomes' D makes big plays and stops when they need 'em.

That's kind of where I'm at. But I reject the glee about this. We're all better than our worst moments - and all of us deserve at least a little better than to be judged by our worst moments.

You picked one game a few years ago for proof that Mahomes carries his team as much as Allen?

Goofy, unintelligent clown says what?

Happy 4th! I always marvel at the founders of this country. Many were well off - had property & money, and families. And they risked everything to oppose an empire. And many of them paid a dear price. It's not enough to raise a glass to them, but it's the best I've got. I salute all of them.

We played like the best team in the league last year at times, but in the end, we had simply lost too many players to injury. A lot of fans - here & around the league - think we lost too many key players in the offseason, and will take a step back. I just see us getting younger & faster. The player I think I'm most excited about is Ray Davis. His skillset seems to complement Cook's perfectly. This could be the best running game we've had in the JA era, and will open up the passing game more than we've seen.

I really don't get the angst of the KC fans on this one. My team just won 3 titles, my QB is universally regarded as the best & some are even saying GOAT, things are looking good for the upcoming season. They're on top of the football world, and have been for years. But a few fans on a Bills message board like Allen better, and that simply doesn't sit right. They've gotta have it ALL.

I'll put it this way, Billl: I haven't seen a fan on either side try to claim that Allen doesn't do more for his team than Mahomes does for his team. On here, we're generally pulling our hair out, because Allen CARRIES this team. As I've said, I don't see the big defensive plays we've had in the playoff matchups, especially compared to KC. For the one incredible game, every single person agrees that Allen's D let him down. And I'd argue that they let him down this past January, also. I like Allen's skillset more, I like his attitude more, and he's just more exciting to watch. So, my mind is unlikely to change. I'd encourage you to enjoy all of the titles and all of the accolades for Mahomes, rather than concern yourself with trying to change the mind of one Bills fan, on a message board for Bills fans. The vast majority of football fans think Mahomes is better. I don't think I'd care if I was a KC fan about a few fans in Buffalo.

I think Brady IS the GOAT. But I don't think he'd have more titles than Manning if they switched places. I agree w/ you that Manning wouldn't have 7 - but I'd put his total at around 5 if he had Brady's circumstances.

Patriots fans used to move the goalposts all the time in the Manning/Brady debate. For a long time, it was the head-to-head - as though they were playing each other in tennis. Then, Manning ended up w/ the better record over Brady in the AFCCG. But, by then, Brady had won so many that it was a moot point. Now, Pats fans hype Manning up bigtime, after calling him a one & done choker for 2 decades - because it helps Brady's legacy if he had to get past another all-time great to get his titles. I happen to agree w/ consensus on that one - that Brady is a better overall QB than Manning. Titles do have something to do w/ that; at a certain point, it reaches a critical mass. But Brady DID have the best coach of all time, while Manning played for 5 different coaches, only one of whom I would consider near the top tier. That's a pretty big differentiator. If you look at title-winning teams, there are generally great coaches hoisting those trophies w/ the top players. It's much more rare that average coaches are carried to titles by great stars (it happens, but not much).

Brady still favored? Gotta disagree there. That means the greatest coach in the game ends up with 3 rings, with a QB who was pretty close to top of the league in terms of talent.

Okay. I'd still take Allen over Mahomes. Not that Mahomes is a bad QB or anything.

So, from what I can tell - you're arguing on one thread that McDermott is a middlin' coach at best, which apparently makes no difference to the success of the team compared to KC w/ Reid? The difference between Allen and Mahomes in the playoff game this year was that the Bills defense - sans their LB's and most of the secondary - gave no resistance whatsoever. The disparity in average yards gained on 1st down wasn't because Mahomes is so wildly better than Allen. And the Bills were still a missed FG from tying that game at the end. If you & others just want to gauge by end results, with literally nothing else factored in - I can't convince you, or make any good argument that can counter that within that limited parameter.